Tried my hand at reworking the pipping system
Feel free to find the system either great or terrible and describe it as such.
-Killer wins if < 2 Survivors Escape
-Survivors win if > 2 Survivors Escape
-Draw if 2 Survivors Escape
-Killer:
Win = Pip
Loss = De-pip
Draw = Black Pip
-Survivor:
Win and escape = Pip
Win and die = Black Pip
Draw = Black Pip
Lose and escape = Black Pip
Lose and die = De-pip
- Dead/Escaped Survivors who leave the results screen before the current Trial is over will have their rank affected after the current Trial is over. If they begin a new Trial as a Survivor before the previous Trial they were in is over, the previous pip result will be applied after the new Trial is completed (in addition to the pip result of the new Trial)
-Bringing an Ivory or Ebony Memento Mori into the Trial makes the Killer unable to pip (pips and double pips are treated as black pips) and Survivors unable to de-pip unless those Survivors disconnect. Bringing in the following does not affect the Killer's pip result: Cypress Memento Mori, Tombstone Piece, Judith's Tombstone, Hex: Devour Hope, Rancor.
-Jumping into the Hatch while there is more than one Survivor remaining in the trial makes that escaped Survivor unable to pip (pips and double pips are treated as black pips) and the Killer unable to de-pip unless the Killer disconnects. In addition, anyone who jumps into the Hatch while more than one Survivor remains in the trial will de-pip instead of black pipping if Survivors lose (unless the Killer has brought in an Ivory/Ebony Mori). A Survivor bringing a Key into the Trial or finding a Key in a chest will not affect that Survivor unless they use it to open the Hatch while more than one Survivor remains in the Trial. Using a Key on a closed Hatch will not affect a Survivor if they are the last Survivor in the Trial.
Disconnects:
-Any player who disconnect de-pips regardless of the results (This happens immediately upon disconnecting as opposed to once the Trial is finished). Repeated disconnects in a certain timeframe will upgrade the depip to two de-pips for each disconnect. Other punishments for DCing may apply as well.
-If the Killer disconnects, the Survivors automatically win (Alive Survivors pip unless they jumped into the Hatch while more than one Survivor remained in the Trial, dead Survivors black pip, and Survivors who disconnected still de-pip).
-Survivors who disconnect are treated as not having escaped when determining the Killer's pip score.
BONUS PIP CONDITION: Entity's Favor
-After the trial is over, your emblems are tallied up based on your performance over the course of the game. If your emblem score meets a certain threshold (that gets harder the higher ranked you are), you will earn the Entity's Favor and your pip result will be upgraded one level (a de-pip becomes a black pip, a black pip becomes a pip, and a pip becomes a double pip). No penalty is given to a player who does not earn the Entity's Favor.
-You will not gain the Entity's favor if you: 1) Brought an Ivory or Ebony Mori into the trial as a Killer 2) Jumped into the Hatch as a Survivor while more than one Survivor remained in the Trial 3) Disconnected from the Trial.
Comments
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Pipping System you're suggesting is literally what it was before it was reworked, rewarding killer for fully sacrificing survivors instead of their overall performance would lead to unfun experience for both sides, with killers being rewarded for camping survivors and making sure they die on their first hook instead of 3 hooking each survivors, as well as those survivors that are going to be camped.
Short answer: No
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To me, this sounds like this should be dealt with by taking better measures to combat camping instead of by moving to a system that doesn't have a clear idea of how to actually win (which has been my biggest issue with the current system).
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I'm pretty sure the current system clearly tells you how to win, at least I never had any problems personally, also, what measures would you take against camping, if your pipping system literally suggest killers to camp, and survivors to drop what they're doing and somehow save that person off the hook with killer clearly knowing that if survivors won't save him, then they won't actually pip (I just noticed your suggesting about survivors pipping system)
Basically this whole idea is a big Pepega, you somehow want to combat camping, by suggesting killers to camp to win, with survivors HAVING TO save that person in order to win.
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You're basically suggesting an even worse version of what pipping system used to be
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I don't really agree that the current system clearly tells you how to win. Otherwise, you wouldn't have people coming up with their own ideas of what "winning" in this game means.
Also, this kinda goes back to what some people argue about camping: it is very susceptible to gen rushing. If everyone else gen rushes and escapes while the Killer is camping the Survivor, they pip, Killer de-pips, and the dead Survivor black pips (as opposed to almost certainly de-pipping under the current system). That doesn't mean that things couldn't be improved to combat camping (which I think is a different discussion that can still happen even with the current system), but I personally don't think that camping breaks this system as much as feared if Survivors know how to play around it.
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I'm very much sure that camping breaks your pipping system as your pip as a survivor depends on if your teammates are ######### or not, you could do 3 gens, save all of your teammates at least once, run the killer around for 5 minutes while your teammates do absolutely nothing, and in the end all of you would die and you would end up depiping, but with the current system, you'll end up actually pipping, as you did all your best, and got a red embem in every category, except for survival, you'll most likely get a golden or a silver either way as you did your best.
Basically the current pipping system is great for everyone, your teammates being complete megheads wont ensure that you depip, and going around and hooking different survivors each time as killer rewards you, as well as you'll lose your emblem progress if you stay next to the hook for too long to combat campers, no one likes to be found first and then get camped for the rest of your miserable game, isn't that right?
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This sounds even worse than Victory Cube to me. I hated the kill-focus of the system. As killer I had some insanely fun and satisfying games full of tension for everyone where I depipped because I didn't kill anyone (intentionally, admittedly). Right after that, as survivor I had an ultra boring game against a Myers who didn't get anything done during the entire game and then in the end finally downed someone thanks to NOED, hooked him in the basement and camped him there. The other two swarmed the basement and boom - pip for him.
Last mentioned game is also why basing the survivor pipping on the whole group is something that'd be a big no-no for me. Imagine teammates like the above that you have no control over but you lose the game ... thanks no.
I am not even convinced if these kind of systems where killers must kill to pip and survivors must survive (here even 3 must escape so that a survivor can pip) can lead to a decent 4:1 rank distribution of killers and survivors. Especially as killers demand their 3-4ks literally all the time and the devs are tweaking the game towards that (remember: Devout emblem was changed because Iridiscent = 4k happened too often), because otherwise killer does not feel like the badass unstoppable monster, so no survivors could pip along with them.
I do kind of agree that the current killer pipping system feels very random at times, I personally think this is mainly due to Gatekeeper though.
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"I'm very much sure that camping breaks your pipping system as your pip as a survivor depends on if your teammates are ######### or not, you could do 3 gens, save all of your teammates at least once, run the killer around for 5 minutes while your teammates do absolutely nothing, and in the end all of you would die and you would end up depiping, but with the current system, you'll end up actually pipping, as you did all your best, and got a red embem in every category, except for survival, you'll most likely get a golden or a silver either way as you did your best."
This is where the Entity's Favor comes in at the end. If you do all of what you describe and make the Hatch escape, you can actually pip if you do well enough at emblems (black pip gets upgraded to a pip). Even if you do die, you can still end up black pipping if you played well enough.
"Basically the current pipping system is great for everyone, your teammates being complete megheads wont ensure that you depip, and going around and hooking different survivors each time as killer rewards you, as well as you'll lose your emblem progress if you stay next to the hook for too long to combat campers, no one likes to be found first and then get camped for the rest of your miserable game, isn't that right?"
I actually think the current system is bad because it forces people to basically follow a specific play pattern in order to be rewarded instead of being rewarded for bringing your side to victory. That's just me, though.
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1) I was talking about when everyone die and you don't make the hatch escape, but you still getting pipped if you do well enough in the game, black pick is not good enough for all that hard work
2) This specific play pattern lets EVERYONE have fun in the same game, without either sides feeling like they really lost as long as they did well during the match, or you could just be an ######### and camp the first survivor you found, stripping him of all his fun and making him depip, but you'll end up depiping as well.
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As far as the first scenario, I'm not really sure where the ranking system comes into play here, as it kinda just seems like you were happy to have an exciting game and didn't care what your end result was (especially since you deliberately did not kill anyone). Would the game have somehow been less exciting or fun for you if it were the same game but with the proposed system?
Second scenario, under my system, assuming the other three got out while the Myers was busy hooking and camping someone in the basement, the three escapees would pip, Myers would de-pip, and the one who died would black pip at worst and potentially pip anyways if they did well enough over the course of the game through the Entity's Favor (which is possible if they were able to last the whole time without Myers getting anything accomplished). To me, that sounds like how it should go for a Survivor team that managed to escape with only one casualty at the very end.
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1) I disagree about it not being good enough. I am under the menality that regardless of Survivor or Killer, if you lose, you should not progress in rank.
2) "without either sides feeling like they really lost" This is my problem with the system. If you win, you should be rewarded for winning. If you don't, you really shouldn't be rewarded for it.
3) "or you could just be an [BAD WORD] and camp the first survivor you found, stripping him of all his fun and making him depip, but you'll end up depiping as well." Under my system, that first Survivor could end up black pipping (and the Killer almost certainly still depips) if the other Survivors rush the gens and make the escape while the Killer camps
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I feel like this conversation is going nowhere. This is gonna be my last message.
Here's my whole point:
You shouldn't be punished for your teammates being #########.
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Hey, if you make the escape in spite of bad teammates, you aren't punished for it. Or, at least, I don't consider a black pip a punish. I still allow the potential to pip for a loss as long as you make the escape (either through the Hatch or through the Exit Gate if the Hatch is closed)
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