Regarding Pig's Ambush (Why?)
Hello, BHVR and forums. Today I'm here to talk about something that kinda irks me and a lot of Pig mains I know.
Most of you will likely remember the Endgame Collapse, and the related changes that it gave to the Pig. Those changes crippled her endgame, and even if they didn't make her that much weaker, they removed a good deal of variety from her kit. Pig's variety is the most fun thing about her - there is no one "optimal" playstyle. There are so many different ways to play. Stealth. Complex dashes. A totem build. An exposure build. A build focused around pure chase. If a perk existed, Pig was probably able to get some use out of it.
She's not the same Pig she used to be, and that's because of one change.
"The Pig's Ambush Attack is no longer considered a basic attack."
Granted, this is less of a nerf and more of a consistency change. It isn't going to hurt her strength all that much. But you know what it will affect? Yep.
Her variety.
Once again, this recent Pig change has removed a lot of synergy with many different perks: Save the Best for Last, Remember Me, The Third Seal, Devour Hope, Make Your Choice, Haunted Ground, Rancor, and Sloppy Butcher.
This is not a good thing.
As I discussed in my last post, one of the main attractions from Pig wasn't that she was strong. It was that she was fun. She was versatile. To anyone who took the time to learn her well, she was almost guaranteed to find a way to give her player fun. With these little mini-nerfs and consistency changes, Pig is slowly moving away from that killer and turning into yet another M1 killer, who is neither fun to play nor fun to play against.
These changes also discourage Pigs from being cheeky with their ambushing. It rewards the ones who just hold W and eat pallets, while leaving the skilled Pigs who can ambush well why they even bothered learning her. Pig's ambush is likely the part of her that players find the most fun - it provides her a nice niche in chases without being overpowered. It has counterplay. It requires skill and precision to use properly, and it's one of the things setting Pig apart from being a basic M1 killer. With these changes, the incentive to learn how to ambush well decreases, and the incentive to just hold W increases. Do you know where that leads, when people think a killer is bad?
They camp. They tunnel. And they cry that survivors are overpowered. Nobody wins. It happened with old Freddy - people thought he was really #########, so most Freddies tunnelled and camped and ran ebony moris and NOED and all the perks, addons and playstyles that were straight-up unfun for survivors to face.
From a business perspective, if a killer is fun to play, then wouldn't that result in more people buying the DLC? You would end up with more money, the community would end up with fun killers to play, and everyone would get something making them happy.
Please, BHVR, don't let Pig get to that point. She doesn't need to be consistent. She just needs to be balanced, and she already is. She doesn't need this change.
Thank you.
Comments
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Big facts. It's made me play as her less and less because it's just not as fun anymore
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Please stop nerfing Amanda, she didn't kick anyone's puppies (or put reverse bear traps on them)
"ohh people still play her, despite the Endgame changes.. What can we do to make people stop playing her entirely??"
What next, have her only carry one trap at a time and require her to manually power up the jigsaw boxes??
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The EGC changes didn't really bother me, I never played "Endgame pig" and although I get a lot of people did, it wouldn't have worked with the EGC and the EGC has been a big positive for the health of the game IMO, so I get it.
This though is just a bit sad, in that is a straight nerf. Again, I understand, Huntress hatchets don't work with One-shot perks, or other projectiles, but ambush isn't a projectile, there was no reason to do this.
I like playing with a variety of perk options, and if I am on a killer that dosn;t interact with that perk well, im not going to use that perk. (IE why would I use an insta-down perk on Billy/Myers/GF/Chainsaw killers etc, because you have that ability anyway, or that dosnt work with it such as Huntress.
That said, if this is really what you want to do, perhaps for some grand plan that will come into force at a later date, please give the Pig some love, the crouch time buff was pretty insignificant.
Plus her new cosmetics are beautiful.
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They just want to find out how far they can nerf a killer before people riot.
Amanda needs to be either significantly buffed by changing her endgame gameplay (traps work same as before EGC but if there is a trap on survivor, EGC timer is slowed down like if survivor was downed or hooked, and ambush attack change reversed) or she should be completely reworked just like freddy.
I would love if amanda got such treat and similar basekit as freddy. Many little tools to help her in chases, slow the game down and apply pressure on survivors.
They should also do something with her addons, most of them are barely useful, moreover, they are useless except a few ones.
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I don't think traps that are put on once endgame starts should be 'active', but I do think that should be the final trigger: a gate opening turns any not-yet-active traps active (maybe not hatch closings, since that's a little unfair). This would give survivors an incentive to open gates fast if the Pig still had traps left when the last generator is charged, rather than 99%ing as so many do. It wouldn't totally bring back Endgame Pigs because chances are only one person could get hatted before at least one door is open, but it would keep people in the game.
And yeah, making Pig's dash not a basic attack doesn't really make sense to me. The only difference is she happens to be crouching just before the hit... nurse blink attacks are different than her normal attacks, and she passes through a weird other dimension right before them. Wraith uncloaking attacks, Myers/Ghostface exposed attacks are counted the same as their normal attacks, IIRC, for every other killer, the main weapon, no matter how it's used, counts as a normal attack for perks, except Legion when he's in a frenzy that his entire power is already geared around.
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Agreed. But this would be uneccesary if they reversed that change: "only active traps can trigger beyond exit gates". I think it would be better. It does what it is meant to do - keep survivors in trial for longer time.
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just gonna
12 -
Honestly it feels like they're just nerfing people to push players to try the other things they broke at this point. Kill the pig so that people will play ghostface
I worry for Myers
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I’m assuming that a bunch of rank 20s suddenly started whining about Pig and the devs gave in or a couple of devs started thinking that Pig was OP and got her nerfed.
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Guys, please don't go after the devs for implementing this change. They opened a feedback forum for this very purpose - feedback. No need for hate or insults. They're trying.
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Freddy changes are good but why nerf pig?
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“They’re trying”
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This isn’t a nerf, you can now hit the obsession without losing STBFL tokens. :D (actually gives me a reason to ambush people)
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And in exchange, you can no longer:
- Gain STBFL tokens
- Gain Remember Me tokens
- Apply Mangled with Sloppy Butcher
- Down Exposed survivors in one hit
- Apply Blindness with The Third Seal
One upside, five downsides. The Exposed downside could also be expanded to count once for every Exposed perk. If I did that, then there would be eight downsides.
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@JAWS_BDSM For the love of all that is good, please don't rework Pig. Please.
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STBFL with 8 tokens in the complete match is rly great.
And Im rly sorry, but I love MAD GRID with WEAPON SOUND.
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You don’t have to use the ambush and generally un-crouching for the hit was a better strategy.
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There`s a chance she'll be good like freddy. I hope.
On the other hand is painful and agonising failure (legion)
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Have you ever heard of, I dunno, dash mindgames?
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Yes, it only works at short loops.
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Ah, someone who doesn't know how to play Pig, I see.
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I guess you can’t counter piggy? If you’re hit with her ambush a thread long loops then you really need to improve.
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On the contrary; if you can't effectively use your power at longer loops, then it's YOU who needs to improve at Killer.
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I could easily say the same about your survivor performance or the survivors you face. I can counter this.
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Eh, I'll continue to trust my experience actually playing Pig and discussion with people who are high-tier Pig players (including the OP of this thread).
Trust me, Pig's dash single-handedly puts her at the top of upper-tier Killers; if she had map pressure or mobility, she would easily be a top-tier Killer. That dash is an extremely valuable and useful ability.
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Whatever you say, I’ll just keep dominating with her buffed form. Gg stbfl. <3
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Mither, he's baiting you.
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"The change is a buff because you can dash to avoid losing STBFL stacks"
"By the way her dash sucks"
Should have guessed it sooner tbh
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I never said her dash sucked.
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Baiting=\= disagreeing
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It only works at short loops=Might as well never use it since you can just mindgame that normally
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Most loops are also very open and not mindgamable since you can literally always see the killer.
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The Killer doesn’t need to be invisible for you to mindgame it; you can still trick the Survivor to thinking you’re doing something that you aren’t.
If the loop is unsafe, it can be mindgamed. And short loops are unsafe loops, regardless of the wall height.
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I guess your definition of an average sized loop is my definition of a small loop then.
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While this change won't help you gain stacks for STBFL, it will help you keep them, at least from what I've seen. : )
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Dashing while they are exposed Does down then in one hit I soon as I read the patch notes and read that . I jump I'm a KYF match and test it
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Your argument is that one (small) upside in exchange for at least five downsides constitutes a buff. I can't really see how that isn't a bait.
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I mean, I like the change. Getting to keep eight stbfl tokens has been helping my games out.
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Okay, so it fits your playstyle, and doesn't nerf you. Not my point - it nerfs the Pigs who run other perks like Third Seal, and removes synergy with them.
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