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Billy vs Spirit. Who's better?
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Gonna say spirit as she doesnt have to destroy pallets she can mind game them decently
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Spiritus
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Iron Will doesn't hard counter her, footsteps, breathing, collision, Stridor all help Spirit against Iron Will. Hard counter would mean she can't do anything about it, which isn't the case.
Billy is again hard countered by Lery's and Haddonfield offerings.
Haddonfield is Spirit's worst map, but yet, Spirit mains stil don't DC and they still 4k with 32k BP against multiple Iron Will users there, while some of Billy mains DC on Haddonfield, Lery's and Ormond, and if you have the urge to DC just because you got that map, that says something about the strength of that killer. Lery's is good for Spirit because small map + louder footsteps which makes Iron Will less effective + almost every loop being dead zone against Spirit + almost every window having an entrance besides them.
Billy doesn't force survivors to drop pallets earlier, stop living in dreams. Good survivors bait pallets and make extra loops and use windows and that delay his Spirit Fury. Billy doesn't break pallets instantly unless survivors drop the pallet when he is charging his chainsaw, which can be avoided. Otherwise, os not worth charging your chainsaw to break the pallet.
Windows aren't any stronger against Spirit unless we are talking about the bullshit ones from Ironworks of Misery and other #########, which are also as strong against Billy and any killer other than Nurse and somewhat Hag.
If the survivor gets caught in open against Billy, that survivor is probably stupid or plays on Rotten Fields.
"Billy is just better, that's how it is". I just LOLed. 90% of Billy mains I know told me that Billy is weaker than Spirit. Literally any person playing Billy somewhat constantly in high ranks thinks Spirit is stronger than him. Apparently, even Billy mains can't see how good Billy is, I wonder why ? The most funny thing is that almost any person claiming Billy is better than Spirit, doesn't play Billy enough in high ranks, because once they do, they change their mind 😁.
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I'm purple rank on both sides and Spirit is 100% not better
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Also @Marcus just outed himself as clueless. Stridor does not counter Iron will.
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Last time I checked Stridor countered Iron Will and @thesuicidefox can confirm, he uses Stridor on Spirit from what I heard from him.
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Billy mains told me something else 😀. And they are red ranks.
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Iron will at rank 3 reduces the grunts of pain caused by injuries by 100%, rendering them completely silent. There's nothing to increase the sound of if there's nothing there.
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Maybe you should test Stridor on survivors with Iron Will 3 to convince yourself.
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Even Billy mains with thousands of hours like Zubatlel and OhTofu says that Spirit is better than Billy. It's not just Tru3, pretty much every high rank killer streamer says that Spirit is stronger.
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Its easier and quicker to win with Billy against random solo queue people, but Spirit is still significantly better against good survivors which is what matters.
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@Marcus "Iron Will doesn't hard counter her" - It does though because it makes you much harder to find when phase walking. If you run or do things to make noises then you aren't taking full advantage of IW's benefit.
"Windows aren't any stronger against Spirit unless we are talking about the bullshit ones from Ironworks of Misery and other [BAD WORD], which are also as strong against Billy and any killer other than Nurse and somewhat Hag."
Yes they are crazy strong against her because she has to end phase walk to vault, and most decent windows require her to walk around if she expects you vaulted, which means she either ends her power early to vault or wastes it all trying to cut you off. Pallets on the other hand don't offer this security unless they are dropped, which is why pallets are generally so unsafe against a Spirit.
In the case of the super strong windows... you vault, she vaults, chances are her power is still in recovery, by the time it's back up and she catches up you already made it back to the window. Being a 110 killer means she can't just brute force the loop she MUST use her power to catch up, but you force her to vault and she can't use her power and vault at the same time. Trust me those loops are way better against Spirit than Billy. Hag can break them because she can set a trap and teleport. Nurse can teleport. Spirit has to follow you, even if she is invisible and moving faster you will make the window over and over until it closes. Try it sometime you will be surprised how effective windows are against a Spirit.
"90% of Billy mains I know told me that Billy is weaker than Spirit. Literally any person playing Billy somewhat constantly in high ranks thinks Spirit is stronger than him."
And you have a Spirit main telling you Billy is stronger, what's your point here?
"Billy doesn't force survivors to drop pallets earlier, stop living in dreams. Good survivors bait pallets and make extra loops and use windows and that delay his Spirit Fury. Billy doesn't break pallets instantly unless survivors drop the pallet when he is charging his chainsaw, which can be avoided. Otherwise, os not worth charging your chainsaw to break the pallet."
A Billy that can curve and has insta-saw add-ons can indeed force pallet drops early, and if they have SF/Enduring they can do it even more than normal. And it is worth using your chainsaw to break pallets because you can bait the survivor to break for the next loop and instead of breaking the pallet you chase with the chainsaw. You can put them in a situation where you force them to lose distance because you can threaten to break the pallet OR come after them at the same time. You can't do that with other killers because once you commit to the pallet break you are stuck doing the animation. You can't force the survivor to run away early and follow without breaking the pallet like you can with Billy.
"Haddonfield is Spirit's worst map, but yet, Spirit mains stil don't DC and they still 4k with 32k BP against multiple Iron Will users there, while some of Billy mains DC on Haddonfield, Lery's and Ormond, and if you have the urge to DC just because you got that map, that says something about the strength of that killer. "
No it doesn't LOL. First I don't see more Billys DC on that map than any other killer. Second, just because these killers are babies and don't want to work for their kills by DC'ing doesn't mean that the killer is weaker than another. If I was the type of player to DC often, I would pretty much DC every time I got Haddonfield, doesn't matter what killer, because it sucks for all of them except maybe Trapper. In fact I know players that DC on Haddonfield all the time, doesn't matter who they play as.
No Stridor does hard counter Iron Will, which is why I say any good Spirit would be using it because it hard counters a hard counter to her power. IW3 decreases cries of pain by 100%, Stridor increases cries of pain by 50%, resulting in a net of -50%. Stridor will turn IW3 into IW1 basically. You can even hear it as survivor. Start a KYF game, put on IW and have the killer use Stridor. Then take a hit. You will cry in pain, this is how you can tell the killer has Stridor.
The only way to beat Stridor is to use NM and IW together, because NM adds that extra 50% back and makes you silent again.
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I've never heard zubat saying that, even tho i don't watch anyone on dbd besides hexy.
I'm going to be honest with you, i don't want to bash on tofu he is a nice guy, but he is not a killer main, and he doesn't even tryhard when he plays, just plays for fun as this game should be played.
I think most of the the people that say spirit is better than billy, they forget that spirit has 15 seconds cooldown every time you fail/hit that is 15 seconds while 3 guys rush them gens, you miss 3-4 phase walks and they got 3 gens.
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Well that sure explains your opinion that Billy is better than Spirit.
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Maps, maps are the strongest thing in this game, until the devs learn how to make proper maps then we can't tell.
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The answer to this question is easy.
Billy can be looped.
Spirit cannot be looped.
The only reason that Billy was considered the second best Killer for so long was because Hag hadn’t got her buff yet and Spirit wasn’t out.
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Hillbilly has no cooldown on his one-shot, which is baseline, all the while being the highest mobility in the game.
The Spirit has to rely on inconsistent sound cues, lower movement speed, and a long cooldown on her ability baseline. (She is also ridiculously noisy for a killer that relies on audio.)
Hillbilly is the only killer (with Nurse being a close second) that can use Barbeque & Chili to land on top of a survivor with his power by the time it ends. He is also the only killer that can down a survivor in less than 10 seconds of a match beginning.
Hands down, he's far stronger than Spirit, especially with perks.
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I mean, Spirit can get hits by just standing still (wow much skill) and Billy not. So you already got your answer just by looking at this.
Billy is just the most balanced killer and extremely fair. Both sides have a lot of techs and counterplay to go against each other and it never feels cheap to down someone with Billy.
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I know 2-3 Spirits mains ( including you ) saying Billy is stronger than her. Literally every other Spirit main told me she is stronger than Billy. I met around 15 Billy mains who told me that Billy is weaker than Spirit. The last Billy main who told me that he is stronger said that he needs Engravings add-ons to bypass Spirit. My point is Spirit mains seems to trust more their killer potential than Billy mains.
Even if not all Billy mains DC on certain maps, they still struggle more than Spirit. Spirit seems to do consistently well on any map, while Billy really struggle on half of the maps from what I saw recently.
Again, Iron Will doesn't hard counter her because she can play around it. Hard counter would mean she can't do that. You really don't seem to know what hard counter means.
If Billy tries that trick, the survivor can just avoid it, usually long and even medium chainsaw snipes are easily avoidable, unless Billy has speed/steering add-ons and survivors don't expect these add-ons ( but after they know you have them, they can counter them accordingly ).
Instant Saw is strong indeed and it may need a little nerf, but Spirit has more broken add-ons combo.
Curving is still avoidbale and not possible on all loops. Most loops are easily abusable if Billy is too greedy with his chainsaw.
If Billy M1 you, you get a sprint burst, he loses his instant down and you can counter his chainsaw even more easily now with Dead Hard. You want a Billy to M1, and a Billy will M1 if you are good enough.
Remember, almost any Billy main I know told me Spirit is better, I can't say the same for Spirit mains.
Edit : if Spirit ends her power early, her cooldown is shorter, so she can use it right away after vaulting. If she wasted all her power, then she probably can get a hit on the survivor. Billy is also very weak around windows unless he is using Instant Saw, because they "cancel" his instant down and force him to M1. If you force him to M1, you won the chase. You also need to learn how strong windows are against Billy, even stronger than against Spirit.
Post edited by Marcus on0 -
He does have a cooldown. Its 3 seconds, which allows for a ~10m distance lead. Sound cues are extremely consistent unless they have Iron Will. The cooldown is based on how long you actually use the power. She makes little sound while phasing.
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Spirit.
Duh.
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Hexy became a living meme in DbD community from the "Billy OP". He is still no match to Tru3 tho.
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well i don't stay 24/7 on forums, and don't watch 24/7 streams about dbd.
FYI you don't get better at the game if you watch X streamer plays, i assume you didn't know that, maybe this clear things out.
The fact that you put spirit and billy in the same pool, explains the fact that you have no idea what the strongest 2 killers have in common, spoiler alert spirit isn't one of them.
Maybe stop watching streamers and play the game, then you might understand how stupid this spirit/billy topic really is LMAO.
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Dude, you know you are talking to Scott Jund, right ? He plays both, Spirit and Billy, at red ranks, and he still thinks Spirit is better than Billy, even after playing them constantly in high ranks.
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Hahaha, that made me laugh, thanks i needed that.
I guess you're probably his sub, and coming here on forums and saying how good he is.
Dude last time i checked, true gets on average 1.5/2 survivors out constantly, last time i checked hexy get 0, sometimes 1 out due to gen rush meta.
Quit trolling you're bad at it.
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interesting i just typed that, and literally 2 mins later you write that down, interesting, you don't stay 24/7 on forums.
It's pretty clear who i'm talking to already, wasting time that could be useful to answer actually worth questions.
Keep playing spirit, as long as i don't see nurse/hillbilly, i'm fine, keep playing her and keep saying shes the best killer in the entire game, easier games i'm okay with.
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I don't care who i am talking to, honestly, as long as they believe spirit is better than billy they might as well don't play this game, its so absurd to even think that.
HB has 1-shot the whole game, at any point you made 1 simple mistake, you're on the hook, spirit at best can get a hit on you, from 1-shot down to 1 hit is a long way to go.
The moblity is the main thing why everyone, played hillbilly in 2016, even if they remove his 1-shot billy will still be top 4 killers in the game, how crazy ??
Should i mention he has little to no cooldown on his chainsaw? yeah 2 seconds, and with addons goes down to literally 0.
Did i mention that spirit takes 30 seconds to down someone, no matter they are good/bad/god.... it will always take 30 seconds to down someone, BEST CASE SCENARIO, it could take up to 60-90 seconds if the survivor knows what he is doing, with decent mobility 90s=3 gens done.
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If you truly have 2700 hrs in the game, you would know looping isn't everything.
The only reason (reason LUL) i heard on why spirit is better than hillbilly is: just loop him. Legit the only reason, i'm still waiting for someone to prove me with some GOOD reasons, not just loop him 4Head.
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Last time I checked, Hexy almost never plays Billy and when he does, he always uses Instant Saw and Ebony Mori, despite saying add-onless Billy is better than add-onless Nurse. But I wonder why he never plays Billy without these things, maybe he is afraid is gonna lose and he will finally see that Billy isn't that God Tier ?
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Apparently, you don't need more reasons, because even Billy mains says that Spirit is stronger. Billy can get looped for 3+ gens, especially on his bad maps. On his bad maps, even Hag is stronger than him and that says everything.
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I agree with the addons, spirit with addons is better than billy, but you're not going to have two purple addons everygame, thats 14k bp everygame.
Look at billy's addons they don't change the game as much as spirit's, why cause he already has the best kit in the game (excluding pos nurse), the most complete kit in the game mobility+1-shot, to argue with me on whos better is absurd.
And as i said looping isn't everything, spoiler alert: gen rush win games not looping, if the games would be atleast 10 mins, looping wouldn't even be a problem.
But what do i know: just loop him 4Head.
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And how do you get genrushed? Because you get looped.
God, I am really thinking you are trolling at this point.
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######### am I reading.
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See right there you just changed the subject, sorry man if anyone plays hillbilly or anyone besides nurse that way, its not the killer's fault but only the player's.
If you chase a semi decent survivor tru killer shack,safe pallets, good windows or semi-infinites and you wonder why the X killer sucks...., you can do that for every killer. Spirit is not as good as people make her out to be, she is not nurse, she doesn't have that much stoping loop potential, is a 50-50% chance, that's not soo good when you put it on paper.
Either way this subject is like beating a dead horse, if you think spirit is better than billy or vice verse, be it man, i don't really have the power to make someone understand if they refuse, i'm a good player that understands the game not god.
Fun discussion i guess.
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holy ######### you actually just said Spirits power is a 50/50 as if scratches, sound, and collision don't exist
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Same, people thinking spirit is over billy, crazy times huh?
Either way this discussion is not going anywhere, is like beating a dead horse, spirit over billy or vice versa, there's no point play whatever you feel, the best is whoever you feel and let it be.
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I was refering to "mindgame" pallets while they have iron will or non injured, no sound, he leaves no scratchmarks while stading, i guess collision could give her a slight edge, but when taking in consideration every possibility RNG that can mess up a game, you can argue that clown is A tier....
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I think you misunderstood. What I ment is that both Hexy and Tru3 are living memes, but Tru3 is much worse on his meme worthy comments. They both also let their communities think they are good in DbD, but if you have more than 50 hours in DbD you know they are both mediocore at best.
And my Twitch subs:
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Spirit has has it easier on some maps, where Billy can suffer on a few over others, giving her a numbers advantage for the maps.
She does not have to break pallets, much like Nurse and Huntress, however Spirit is closer to Nurse in this aspect, she can quickly turn invisible and go around to get a hit, the survivor has to guess if she is phasing and jump the pallet, stand still or walk away, and the Spirit has to guess if they were slow vaulting over the pallet, walking away, etc. It's all mind games. Where as Nurse is predictions and reactions.
Billy get's looped, I usually just opt to take care of the pallet quickly, or do the fake where you pretend to go around but double back and chainsaw the pallet. I find most survivors fall for this, and end up right in front of the pallet as you destroy it, making the chase a little bit easier.
Unfortunately with Billy, unless you are getting some Grade A curves and consistently downing survivors, he can suffer quickly after just a good chase. It's much harder to pick back up a game, than with Spirit or Nurse simple because he cannot ignore loops to the extent of Nurse and Spirit. There are many other things to talk about, but I think it is safe to say, that Spirit and Billy are both in the same tier, Spirit is just ahead of him.
But Billy has the fun factor. Nothing quite like zooming around the map, I find I also prefer to face a Hill Billy, and so do many others. He's just an all around great killer. And that can't be taken away from him :)
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I am assuming you are exaggerating, right? If you are talking about a mediocre hillbilly then yes. He is just an m1 killer who can be looped into oblivion. But a great hillbilly? I am not so sure. I mean, I have seen one of the best loopers in twitch die against Battleguy (amazing hillbilly) multiple times live on stream; the chases did not last that much.
If you compare the two killers only based on their chase potential, then yes spirit is 100% better, I can't argue about that. In the same time, it does not mean a great billy is helpless in a chase. He also end chases quickly but not as fast as spirit. In addition, he excels in every other aspect.
The bottom line is: spirit has insane chase potential, there is no safe tile against her while Iron will greatly affects her ability to track injured survivors. Billy on the other hand has instadawn, good chase potential, insane map pressure, create dead zones quickly while some maps [bad word] him up really bad.
When can disagree on which killer is better, but the gap between them is not great. I am personally more tilted towards billy being overall slightly better.
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"Spirit can end chases as fast as Nurse"
As someone who plays Spirit and Nurse, this is a Kroc of #########. Spirit takes WAY longer to end chases bc there are far more constraints on her power than Nurses.
She doesn't capitalize on errors as much as Billy does, she has a cooldown to her power (an actual one. Not 2 seconds.) She's a 110 killer outside of her power so she cannot brute Force her way through a chase like Billy can. Windows are her hardest counter, there are perks that Surviviors can run that literally do all the countering for them against Spirit (Poised, Iron Will, lightweight, QAQ).
ALL of these issues she has are issues Billy does not have to deal with. He's a 115 killer so he CAN brute Force through a chase. His power has a borderline non-existent cooldown. Any error against Billy is a hook, not a hit. Windows mean as little to him as they do to any other M1 killer with how gutted they are nowadays. And there are no perks Surviviors run that do all the countering for them against Billy.
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"She doesn't capitalize on errors as much as Billy."
Yeah, but this is part of the reason why she's better. Spirit doesn't HAVE to capitalize on a mistake. She can just hit people whenever she wants, from the second the game starts with all the resources still up.
A perfect Spirit can still beat a perfect Survivor where Billy does not have the functionality in his power to do the same.
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I hate to burst your bubble but actually you can run double purple addons every single game, not only this but if you burn a survivor pudding and combine this with BBQ then you can easily obtain at least 90k BP in a good trial which has easily allowed me to collect a pretty hefty amount of addons ;
This means that if I wanted to, I could burn both the wakizashi saya and yakeyoke amulet for 82 games in a row while also being able to resupply myself with more addons with the bloodpoints I earn.
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Billy can pressure the survivors a lot more than the spirit however he’s not very good on certain maps like Lery’s or The Game. He can also be looped like majority of the killers.
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The fact is Spirits mindgames are instantaneous. The moment she stops you need to read the situation. Is she phasing? Faking? What addons does she use? What if she Short phases and still has it up in less then a second? All these and more factors into a Spirit in a brief moment she stops.
Spirit can end chases in seconds. Billy being able to instadown someone is cool and all, but countering loops and having the single strongest chase potential in the game with her strong addons allows Spirit to effectively win. Her base kit is all a strong Spirit player needs.
The fact is Spirit makes you consider so much about every little thing in such a short amount of time.
Really asking which one is superior is odd considering both are top tier for the same thing, but for different reasons.
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So what? You mess up against Spirit you get hit. You mess up against Billy and u get hooked. There's a massive difference.
Billy and Spirit have been locked in this "who is better" war ever since Spirit got buffed. She's easier to loop than Billy is, since you have promised ways to force her to drop her power, which turns her into a 110 killer. Like I said before she cannot brute Force through a chase. She needs her power. Conversely Billy's is a luxury. Now that wouldn't be an issue if Spirits power had 100% no counterplay. But considering something as simple as vaulting a remotely safe window destroys her phasing entirely, I'd say it's an issue. You have a far easier time against Spirit than you do against Billy. That's not saying Spirit is a bad killer. But that IS saying she's not superior to Billy.
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Then why 90% of survivor mains prefer to play against Billy than Spirit if you have a easier time against Spirit ? And Spirit being more loopable than Billy make my day 😂.
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Did you not read my last section or just get upset because I pointed out Spirits strengths. I didnt even point out anything other then Billy's instadown and not even in a bad way lmao.
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I'd like to see that statistic that shows 90% of Surviviors like to play against Billy more than Spirit.
I play both sides and Spirit is far easier to take advantage of than Billy.
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I also play both sides, at red ranks and billy is easier to take advantage of.
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