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DS Change
So I noticed a lot of killers complaining about ds, and rightfully so as even though I’m a survivor main I notice that even when the killer doesn’t tunnel, I can still d strike them. So I suppose a change since it’s just a bit wack. Maybe have the timer last until the next person is hooked. That way it still completes its function and killers don’t get punished for accidentally running into the survivor in a minute after clearly not tunneling them.
Comments
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Many people think that this potential change would make ds into an real anti tunnel perk. But the devs won't do that cuz they "don't have time" for that cuz it's nOt PrIoRiTy.
The idea of how they changed DS was a very good idea, but the convertion wasn't that good.
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I mean, changing the timer to "until the next person is hooked" might also be wrong. I mean, you can slug the guy that just got unhooked. You still tunneled at this point, and when you down another one, DS would expire once that person is hooked, even though you still got tunneled.
Personally I would reduce the Timer, but not let it expire when slugged. I dont know, something like 15 seconds after Unhook. When you get downed in this time, you will have DS active, even when you are slugged.
But not sure about that, there needs to be way more thought into it, if you want to change DS, to not make it useless (having it as an Anti-Tunnel Perk is great) and not make it broken again. Personally I think current DS is fine.
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It also needs to be changed in how it works with lockers. As of right now, Survivors can do whatever they want for 60 seconds and not have to worry about being punished for any bad plays, including jumping into a locker when the Killer can see or hear you and you’re not going to be able to use Head On. Why? Because they have DS to bail them out. If they jump into a locker, then you have no way to avoid the strike besides standing in front of the locker for 60 seconds, which can make you lose a good amount of pressure or leaving the Survivor and letting them do whatever, which was one of the problems with the old DS. A lot of Survivors unfortunately seem to not like any version of this perk where it’s fair to Killers and cannot be abused. They think this perk should give them 100% hook immunity. I’m hoping the devs take a look at DS in the next patch and turn it into an actual anti-tunnel perk.
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I'm going to start by saying DS was never meant to be in the game rightfully so. Why put a free escape in the game, it just promotes toxic gameplay on both sides.
Tunneling ins't a problem, i'm sorry it is not, you have 3 chances, if your team is smart, if you fail 3 times to escape the killer and hide / or juke him for 5 gens, i'm sorry you're playing the wrong game, i don't get mad when a killer tunnels into me since he basically throws the game for 1 person, i'm fine with that, i get 3 out, a win in my book.
Just COMPLETELY rework this perk, for the better game.
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And who says that survivors' perks only need to counter killer actions? Can't we have perks that do anything? Killers want DS nerfed to only counter tunneling, adrenaline to only counter NOED, BT to only counter camping ad so on....n
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I'd say DS is fine rn, I just slug, it's only really a problem during endgame
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Just make it deactivate if the killer hooks another survivor and let it keeps its ridiculous 60sec duration. That's all it needs.
Slugging gives the survivor a chance to be healed by teammates without losing a hook state and is pretty fair considering a survivor got caught twice. I get the feeling that a lot of people who whine about getting "tunneled" are just bad at running from the killer.
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That's obvious bait and if you take it, you deserved to get hit by it.
Every time decisive strike is brought up it's in a negative light. The perk is fine. You either deserved to get hit or were stupidly unlucky (and being stupidly unlucky bc of DS is pretty low priority considering everything else you can get hit with bc of bad luck). Just bc killers complain that the perk is too good, doesn't mean it is.
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Lol what? Where’s the LOL button when you need it?
Jumping into a locker when the Killer is near has been considered a bad play for years. Old and new DS turn it and other bad plays into safe ones. It just seems like you want DS to grant you the ability to do whatever you want and not have to worry about getting punished for making a bad play.
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If you suspect a Survivior has D strike and you know they went into a locker, why would you open it just to know they have a shot at hitting you with it? That's the way it works now. Get over it. Tunnelling a survivor who stunned you with a bunch of pallets is considered bad play but people still do it.
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So it should be totally fine if I have a chance to punish a Survivor for making a bad play but I have to ignore them because Survivors can’t handle DS actually being fair? Lol this just shows so much about Survivors. They really just want as many chances as possible to escape and lose their minds when Killers have the ability to punish them.
Tunneling a Survivor who keeps stunning you is a bad play on your part, not theirs. You are the one getting punished because the others are doing gens.
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Their "bad play" is an attempt to bait you Into getting stunned. That's not bad play, that's using your resource to your own advantage. It's not uncommon to use lockers when you have DS, it forces the killer to gamble on the stun hitting them. It's quite entitled of killer mains to assume any attempt at using perks that help Surviviors to...oh idk, survive, is such a toxic thing.
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IMO DS is fine.
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It is bad play it's 60 seconds of oh I can body block the killer, get in their way and be super toxic for no reason and completley against the design of the game, like the Nurse at high level play 2 things I hate.
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This will never end.
It's 60 seconds. Just stop. Nowhere, anywhere was it decreed officially as an anti tunnel perk.
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DS is not meant to only be an anti-tunnel perk.
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Okay. Again if you watch a Survivior jump in a locker and you suspect they have decisive strike that's not them playing bad when you grab them. That's them knowing they can escape this situation using Decisive and that forcing you to grab them is the only surefire way out. The bad play is on YOU for not respecting the decisive.
It's like I say: if you suspect but don't respect then sympathy you should not expect.
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What is the other choice to be had? Leave them completely alone? At least with slugging, it helps build pressure.
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Just give the survivor free 60 seconds to do whatever they want.
EZ totally fair and balanced :D
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They baited you using the locker, you fell for it and got punished for it. They aren't the only Survivior in the trial, go find someone else if you really fear eating their decisive that much. If you really want them then camp the locker. If they jump out, hit them. If they stay in until the timer is up, grab them out. If they have head on and you fear the head on stun, wait for a stillness crow to jump onto the locker since Head on doesn't work if you have stillness crows.
Stop acting like decisive strike has 0 counterplay bc it just doesn't. Using a locker to force the killer into grabbing you just to Decisive off of them is wasting their time, which is what Surviviors not doing objectives should be doing so the Surviviors doing gens can get them done safely.
Slug them. You get the same pressure as a hook, and you don't have to fear the stun. Ezpz lemon skweez.
Bad idea. Killers will slug the guy they hooked, hook the unhooker, then come back and hook the unhooked and they wouldn't have decisive to save them. Now they can tunnel without fear. BHVR clearly doesn't want killers Tunnelling, that's why they nerfed Enduring to no longer lower decisives stun time.
You may not have an issue with Tunnelling but that doesn't mean it isn't a problem. The goal of a video game is to have fun. Surviviors mains also paid for this game (I know, shocking) and they're allowed to be able to play it. And no, "playing the game" is not the same as standing in front of a hook waiting for the killer to pass judgement on them and then the killer wondering why he didn't quad pip after all 4 of them escaped.
Tunnelling is a toxic strategy, it ruins the fun for someone who paid good money for this game. I've Tunnelled but only when the situation called for it. When Surviviors flame me I tell them "run decisive" and If they did, I tell them "hit ur decisive". I've been Tunnelled through decisive, and flashlight saves, and pallet saves, and sabo saves, and just about every other save on the planet and u know what? It wasn't fun. I paid good money for this game, I should not be told I can't play bc someone had a bad day and decided to skip their anger management classes. And if you don't think Tunnelling is toxic, ask any killer main if they blame Surviviors for DCing when they see a hidden killer offering and that ######### "dying light" symbol pop up on their screen bc I sure as ######### don't.
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@PickCollins Slug them? What if they get in a locker to force a grab/pick up? Sit there for a minute waiting?
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thats what hes saying...if you just eat the DS, it was apparently a bait and you lost the gamble...
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Honestly no, I think Decisive should last as long as you are in the killers terror radius, and I'll stand by that, that way it is an anti tunnel perk much like borrowed time, but having BOTH seems overkill for such an idea, maybe add a mechanic like exhausted to stop them both being stacked, it's like having Sprint burst and balanced landing but they both work seperatley... seems silly.
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Okay here I go.
You have one of 3 options in this scenario. Wait it out, leave, or gamble. They forced you to make a decision but 9 times out of 10 you won't have to wait the fill 60 seconds to rehook them if you weren't Tunnelling them to begin with. So practically you almost never wait the full 60 seconds. If they hop in a locker near you, and you suspect they have decisive, and you still open the locker and grab them, that's you taking some rather obvious bait. And yes, that's something you deserve to get punished for. Why is it that Surviviors are suddenly the only side allowed to be punished for mistakes?
If you open a locker with a survivor in it that you think has DS, that's a gamble. You get hit, and you lose. You aren't forced to take the decisive, you can go do other things, come back to the guy, and hook him later. This isn't rocket science.
Decisive strike was never clearly stated to be an anti Tunnelling perk.
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Why would NOT opening the locker ever be the better option? If I get DSed, at least it's gone, if I leave the locker alone... I get the same result except DS is still in play.
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That's ur decision. You get to make it. That's the thing. People are complaining that Surviviors can use lockers so if you want to grab them when they're fresh of the hook they force you to gamble on the D strike.
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How is that a gamble? There's nothing to gain from EITHER option. Normally with slugging, you can still get map pressure. The locker thing is a lose lose.
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It's you gambling on them having/landing decisive if you grab them. Leaving them to apply map pressure elsewhere isn't a lose lose.
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It's fine the way it is tbh.
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This change will make DS more situational than actually it is. Working as an anti-tunnel perks doesn't mean it's the only purpose. We are talking about a one-time perk. A perk that if you fail the skillcheck then it will be disabled for all that the game last. And yes , a SWF can and will, abuse it as they will do with every useful perk in the game.
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Not pressuring someone I found on a gen for 60 seconds is a loss. If I can slug that person, even if they get up later... That's a win. If I'm in the position with someone in a locker who I KNOW has DS, there's no choice I can make to apply pressure. I either open the locker for the injured person to stay injured with a DS or I leave so the injured person can keep working on a gen for 60 seconds unopposed. Standing in front of the locker for 60 seconds is ALSO a loss since it's inviting 3 OTHER ppl to work on gens without pressure. Relying on someone else to mess up a skill check that was made easier to hit isn't counterplay. I'm left without any counterplay.
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You're left without counterplay bc you let them jump in the locker. Again, if you aren't Tunnelling, then you shouldn't have to wait that long for the timer to run down anyways, and If you do have to wait for the timer to completely run down, it might be behoove of you to learn what the definition of Tunnelling is.
You leave one guy in the locker for an undetermined amount of time (all we know is less than a minute if you aren't Tunnelling) and go pressure the other 3 if you want the gens to not get done. If you want that guy dead, then you'll likely just sit there and wait it out.
Yes it's a disadvantage for you, but think about this practically. It's widely accepted in the community that decisive strike is designed to counter Tunnelling. If you have to wait the full minute for a Surviviors decisive timer to run out standing in front of a locker, then You are doing the thing decisive strike is, according to what is widely accepted, designed to do. So as it stands, you only waste 60 seconds if you were Tunnelling a Survivior off the hook to begin with. It's a losing situation for you but only bc you opted to make it one. You suspected the Decisive and you still refuse to respect it, so you shouldn't expect sympathy or for anyone to think changing how decisive interacts with lockers is a good thing.
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So even if every all of his teammates are currently on hooks...Im still tunneling if im giving him any attention within that 60 second timeframe. Somehow borrowed time was able to counter tunneling with a 15 second window that only activated if the killer was near the hook and that was deemed completely fine, but DS needs an entire minute no matter where I am. That sounds completely normal. Im expected to not pressure each survivor for a total of 2 minutes each while they work on gens to avoid being hit by this and somehow keep my gatekeeper emblem. If I stumble across a survivor while patrolling gens who didnt bother at all to try to recover or anything and instead just jumps into a locker 5 ft away from the gen if I come anywhere near...I guess Im tunneling and just got outplayed...
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If a player jumps into a locker, they cant be slugged. Ppl just do this while working on an objective during their DS timer to avoid any consequences for risky plays. What happens when you have 4 survivors do this, seeing that 60 second timer as a way to almost solo a gen without worry as long as there is a locker nearby. You are forced to just eat them unless your willing to give each survivor 1 minute of uninterrupted gen time twice per match...which would complete all 5 gens with that time alone. Do the math real quick on that one.
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Even if you dont tunnel, to avoid getting hit by it you have to completely forget about each survivor for 2 minutes during the match. How many gens dont have lockers near them? Unlike BT that activates when Im nearby and I can just chase the unhooker, I could be on the other side of the map for this one and have no clue who unhooked who. As far as just applying pressure elsewhere... Crunch some numbers real quick... Think about how long it takes total to do 5 gens. Now think about how long each survivor has activate DS timers during a match. The problem is the 2nd number there is bigger than the first. If the only time survivors touch gens at all is during the DS timers...The gens will STILL be done, and im not allowed to grab that guy out of the locker next to the gen or I guess im tunneling.
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Once again, if I ignore each survivor for 2 minutes each...the gens get done. This is the case whether I have a perk with a timer or not. If the only time a survivor even TOUCHES a gen is during that time when im suppose to ignore them, all the gens will pop.
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If DS was viable till the next person is hooked you make DS extremely powerful. That DS user knows they are safe and can bodyblock and such.
60 seconds is fine.
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I wish it WAS an exaggeration but since lockers are for some reason allowed to be safe havens, you dont have the option of slugging someone to waste their time if they choose to use them. At least with old DS I could juggle someone. If the perk turned off as soon as you start working on an objective (meaning you arnt being tunneled off hook) I wouldnt care if it lasted forever. As it stands, its not an anti-tunnel, but rather a safety net that just so happens to activate from being unhooked.
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Im asking you to look at the numbers. Yes, theres other survivors. Each survivor gets at most 120 seconds of DS time. If the only time any survivor ever touches a gen is while they are running DS time, the gens get done. Even if you chase every other survivor who ISNT currently running DS time off gens, letting the ones who DO have active times stay on gens will cause all 5 gens to pop with time to spare. You mentioned emblems, one of which is the gatekeeper emblem. How do I keep DS users from being gen jockys during their timers if they just jump in a locker as soon as I check their gen WITHOUT having to eat 4 DSes.
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I don't get why y'all survivors think ds is okay, I play as survivor a ton and I completely despise it. The worst part is even if YOU don't have decisive you can still pretend if there is an obsession, no punish unless killer doesn't respect ds, it's not fun or fair the killer to have to suffer through a survivor with 60 seconds of immunity, it just really kills the flow, they can do whatever and have to be left slugged or in a locker since a 5 second stun can cost you the game cause you've lost all pressure. DS really needs a change, the fresh hook idea where it deactivates after another hook is also bad, giving survivors any immunity throws the game balance away, it needs to have a tighter prerequisite or something changed to make it feel fine for both sides not just the survivor
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that actually isn't a bad idea, you could make it that the survivor is affected by broken for the duration of the decisive or give them a broken penalty when they use decisive so you could go somewhere else. That could work I like that
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You cant slug someone who jumps in a locker. Thats the problem.
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I dont see how that would have any effect on ppl who dont bother healing to begin with so they can work on a gen for 60 seconds per unhook. The biggest problem Im seeing is how long it lasts combined with the freedom of being able to do objectives during that time. If either of these were addressed, it would be fine. If the timer were shortened to match BT which allows you enough time to reach cover (have the timer pause when slugged) OR the perk deactivate when you start working on an objective (like gens, totems, unhooking someone else). Like I said, I wouldnt care if the perk stayed on PERMANENTLY if it would deactivate as soon as you start on an objective, which shows your not being tunneled off hook.
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Move on, they leave the locker and complete a gen.
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