With the introduction of a heal over time perk, should insta heal add-ons be made into HoTs as well?
I don't feel insta heals fit the games current state. Something like a 12sec self heal would still be strong.
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No
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They gonna nerf Nurse. They gonna change Moris. Yes that idea is definitly worth a look.
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Insta-heals are currently too powerful since they can heal one or two full healthstates in front of the killer. For better balance, they could require a small channeling for like 4 seconds. This way, they would still be a great time-saver, but they couldn't be used in the middle of a chase. In exchange, the insta-heal wouldn't have to consume the medkit.
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What is HoTs?
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Yes, insta heals should be nerfed
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Yes, considering the survivor can just run to a pallet, throw it down, insta heal and then sprint off to the next loop is pretty terrible game design. Especially the ultra rare heals that can be used twice
Insta heals give no warning to the killer unlike moris and insta heals only punish killers that aren't running Moris or can instantly down such as the Hillbilly
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Healing over Time
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No. First of all, as long as exposed status is in the game, there needs to be a counter for it. Insta-heals have their place as that counter. Second, 12 seconds is too long, considering a survivor can just heal someone almost as fast.
Perhaps taking the pink insta-heal addon and giving the second healing state an 8 second hot might work, but no way do we remove at least the one stage insta-heal as long as one hit downs still exist. That is part of the balance game.
Edit: Maybe add provisions in stating it will instantly heal from the dying state, otherwise heals an injured player over 8 seconds.
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No. Unless we are reworking all OP add-ons and offerings for both sides then maybe. But as of now No.
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The user and all related content has been deleted.9
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This was an idea that the devs have brought up before regarding balancing the insta-heals. I am all for it, personally.
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If 2 addons cant insta heal 1 or 2 life states there cant be any instadowns...... survivors logic I swear.....
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it's not like injured people suffer more from being exposed.
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Not every killer has instadown without perks. Any survivor can use an instaheal on themselves or others... instantly. The majority of what exposes survivors has counters without instaheals. Ghostface being revealed, cleanse totems, waiting the timer out etc. Survivor logic, I swear.
Instaheals, as they are now, are too powerful.
As far as insta down hatchets, remove them. Or, anything else as cheap as them including prayer beads.
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No, but the ability to get someone up instantly who was just instantly downed is a counter.
As aggravating as seeing someone instantly heal in front of me can be, I don't feel the ability to do so with a one time use addon is overpowered. I think a portion of the killer community is becoming a bit too whiney and they are rushing down slippery slopes. It is never enough.
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Just NO.
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By this logic, exposed is a counter to insta-heals because it counters the ability to go back to full heath immediately, no?
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Let instaheals heal instantly only one healing stage on dying people then and second one over time? Works the same against instadown and doesn't screw over m1 killers.
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Now you're getting it. Remove one, remove the other.
Like I said earlier, there are ways to tweak things so it is not abuses so easily. Purple bottle equals an instant heal if the survivor is in dying state. It equals an 8 second heal over time if just injured. If they are injured and use it in front of you, they are still going down on that hit. If you slugged them, the 8 seconds tick off and they are back to injured.
Similarly, the syringe syringe instantly heals a dying survivor and applies an 8 second heal over time. If the survivor was injured when it was applied, it grants the 8 second hot.
Much more tolerable to me as an M1 killer (Trapper).
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The thing is that the two are not equal IMO. Exposed requires the Killer to put in some amount of work (barring NOED). Insta-heal is something the Survivor can have from the very start. Exposed can exist fine with a nerfed Insta-heal. Insta-heals cannot exist with a removed Exposed.
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I heard they were going to change Nurse's add-ons. No nerf her directly. But I didn't hear anything about the mori. When did they say that?
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Exposed rarely requires much work. I think Shape is the only one that could claim so. NOED is free as long as a totem survives and it rewards me for not stopping the survivors to begin with.
Instant heals cost your med kit, so they are not free either.
We can sit and argue semantics all day to no avail. The fact is killers have multiple ways to instantly down survivors multiple times in a match. Survivors get an addon that can counter that one time in a match. With a slight tweak there is nothing left to cry over.
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MYC requires you to be far away from the unhooker giving them a big head start, Devour Hope requires that AND hoping your totem doesn't break, Night Shroud needs you to be able to stalk without being seen, and the Clown add-on needs you to be precise with your bottle throws. Granted there are one or two others I forgot about (Rancor and Iron Maiden), but the first one has its own strings attached (plus insta-heal don't really matter in this case), and Iron Maiden sucks.
Losing the medkit is small price to pay to be able to negate some or all of a Killer's chase. It's like a pre-nerf MoM with minimal downside that you don't need to really set up that also has additional applications on a downed teammate.
I would argue that most of the insta-down methods are inferior to the insta-heal by a fair bit and are fine on their own in a vacuum. The few that are not fine can be individually changed rather than having to change Exposed as a whole.
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Several killers are hardly hindered by MYC. Billy, Nurse, Speed Wraith, Hag, and Spirit really make good use of it.
Instant downs are way more powerful than instant heals. How? They can be used multiple times per match where instant heal is only once. Sorry, but I would rather be able to get 5 chainsaw hits in a match than have one shot at an instant heal. No comparing the two.
Most forms of exposed give opportunities for many downs as well.
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Which insta-downs would you say are at least comparable to an insta-heal? I would say Billysaw and Irihead Huntress at best.
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Personally I think it would be a nice idea for the Styptic Agent, being able to heal on-the-move would still be very useful but not annoying like an instaheal.
As for the Anti-Haemorrhagic Syringe though, I think it should allow to pick up downed survivors in a very short time independent by how much they recovered, otherwise it would not be justifiable for it be an ultra-rare addon.
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My idea for the Syringe is that using it on a downed Survivor would allow them to passively heal + get up when fully healed, and if the Killer picks them up and hooks them before that happens, the health state recovery is stored until they are off the hook (similar to Adrenaline).
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Insta heals are fine.
They are meant to be a powerful tool for survivor.
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We don't know, what the devs will change. I honestly hope, that they'll only change nurse addons, because she is completely fine. Even three blink is fine, the only thing that really breaks her are the range addons.
You're right, they didnt said anything about Moris, but they know, that Moris are completely unfun, for survivors AND killers. Getting hooked and moried right after is no fun. Loosing points cause the survivor dies in another animation is no fun either.
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Do you honestly believe insta heals are good where they are at rn?
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Yes, I am fine with them. I'm 80/20 at this time, so I don't play much survivor, but I don't see as many instant heals as is made out on these forums. Maybe 1 of 5 matches has one and it rarely gets used right. Admittedly, if every group were as good as the 4 man squads that are good enough to harass the killer while playing, there would be a problem. There are not many of those groups though.
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I remember specifically reading on a thread somewhere that they only wanted to change her add-ons. They might make a small adjustment to the base power, but it will be so little that you won't notice a difference. Of course, I didn't see this from an actual dev though so it does have to be taken with a grain of salt.
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The value you get from and instant heal is many times more than any instadowns. You need to redo either 1 or 2 chases with an insta heal, with any instant downs, if you have 1 good chase you can either run out the clock on it, or have enough time to leave, or cleanse totems if it is NOED.
TL:DR
Instant heal > insta down
Survivor logic I swear.
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That'd be a great idea.
Triggering it on yourself and then while you do a generator or a totem or even hide, your healing bar slowly fills itself.
It'd keep the element of being a useful and powerful add on, while removing the complete lack of balance of instantly jumping health states.
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Neat idea, it gives the killer time to react to the survivor's decision to use their septic agent/anti-hemorrhage syringe.
Perhaps, septic agent heals you one health state over a 16 second period, and anti-hemorrhage syringe acts like an Autodidact? :)
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anything that allows me and my SWF buddies to epically bully a rank 15 killer for kicks is good for the game, obviously
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First of all.
Any one instance of something from the Killer needs to be 4 times stronger than the Survivor equivalent, since the Survivors can have 4 of whatever it is.
So an instant down isn't supposed to be the strength of an instant heal, but rather a team of 4 survivors all running instant heals.
Second of all.
A in the case of Killer powers, having an instant down generally comes at the cost of being balanced around that fact in that their power won't have things that Killers without instant downs will have.
For example Billy has an instant down sure, but he also has a long charge time, gets stunned easily and can't turn while using it. Meanwhile Spirit has a short charge time, is invisible for the duration, has no stun and has full control over her own movement. Yes I know the comparison isn't perfect but the idea is that the instant down alone is not enough to make a Killer Power good simply because a good Power needs to do a lot of things all at once. Just look at Bubba, he has an instant down but is #########.
However, Survivors are not dependent on their items. Thus a Survivor team with no items can go head to head with the Killer and be evenly matched. In theory Instant heals would be balanced out by the Killers UR addons, and while sometimes it is, far too often it isn't. And the only addon builds I can think of that can go against a full team of instant heals (which is what SHOULD be equivalent to the Killers best addons) would be Gen Grabber Spirit and Omega Blink Nurse, both of which are considered OP.
And finally.
Other than the Chainsaw Killers, NOED and specific addons. The instant down effects ARE closer in equivalence to a heal over time. This is because most example are tied to a timer.
Myers is 60 seconds
Ghostface is 45 seconds
MYC and HG are 60
Iron maiden is 15
Not sure how long the clowns pink addon is but it's on a timer too
NOED and Devour Hope are tied to totems which can be removed in advance
Rancor comes with an explicit drawback and only works on a specific survivor.
So that leaves chainsaws which I went over and iridescent hatchets which a lot of people rightly want nerfed
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“...Any one instance of something from the Killer needs to be 4 times stronger than the Survivor equivalent, since the Survivors can have 4 of whatever it is...”
false. Any perk/addon/... survivors have applies only to him and/or has only one use. Killers perks apply on every survivor and can be used every time
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Hell yeah! Being able to heal at least one health state instantly is way too OP, especially with how fast the gens can go. At least Killers actually have to get close to the Survivor in order to use an instadown. What good did that Haunted Ground or MYC do if you couldn't catch a Survivor within 60 seconds?
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claps nooooo if they're gonna do that then they gotta look at one shot down capablities.
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Clowns lasts as long as the duration of your bottle so ether vol 15% exposed lasts longer than base
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Nah, one-shots are for the most part fine as is. 'Cept for maybe NOED and "Iridescent Head + Infantry Belt."
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@NuclearBurrito Though I disagree with greatly on the need to equate any survivor ability to killer ability by a multiple of four, I decided to toy with it last night.
I ran 15 matches with instant downs that were not part of a chainsaw ability. Basically, going with the idea that there is a finite time limit for the power.
In 6 Shape matches, I was able to attain exposed status average of 3 times per match and down an average of 5 survivors instantlyduring the matches (no addons).
With Clown and an instant down addon, I averaged 5 instant downs a match.
I ran the other 5 matches with Trapper using HG, DH, and NOED. HG gave me 2 per match. DH gave me 3 per match, and NOED gave .6 per match. Between them, I was just over 5 per match.
So, I easily beat the multiplier of 4 in every match. I also learned that haunted ground worked super well for Trapper. I'm going to toss it in with a couple of good addons and see what happens.
Instant heals are a counterbalance in this game. Like anything, good teams of survivors can abuse them. One of the Clown matches had such a team. Four syringes in that match. Downed the first one and his buddy had him up right after I hit him. Best part? I downed him almost immediately and scored a lucky shot with the bottle 6 seconds later on the other and downed him again too. Exposed was already winning 2 to 1.
Edit: I should add in that these matches were run at yellow and purple ranks. Mostly purple.
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Instant heals aren’t just used on a downed survivor to get them back up, but are also used as basically a free mettle of man in a chase which is insane to deal with because the killer is on the clock and wants to down the survivor asap but then pretty much gets robbed. It’s badly designed imo, the same goes for mories, keys and insta down addons like iri head.
I’m all for insta heals working over time, but some other killer addons should get looked into as well.
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The point of INSTA-heal is to get heal instantly. 12s self-heal ? Then how would it be different from a good med-kit? EXACTLY
Insta-heal add-ons have their place in the game as long as killers have their ultra-rare insta-down add-ons and moris.
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"I should add in that these matches were run at yellow and purple ranks. Mostly purple."
This explains to me why you think insta-downs are on the same level as insta-heals. If you are playing at a low enough rank that you were able to repeatedly and consistently get multiple downs from Devour Hope of all things (even with such a small sample size), it has way more to do with the skill level of opponents you are playing than with the power of insta-downs.
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You wouldn’t have to take the time to do it yourself, you could just do a totem or work on a gen. In a chase it would warn the killer you’re going to be healed if he doesn’t down you quick enough.
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Heal over time for the ultrarares (instant 1 health state, second health state after 5 more seconds)
The difference is that an Instaheal might become pretty useless if it was a heal over time in close proximity of the killer.
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If you use it at a loop, you can still run from the Killer and get your heal if you evade them for a little bit longer.
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Maybe instaheals can cause broken(1min) once you get hit. Like the effect you depend on is gone and your more exposed to danger.
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