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Impossible to counter these killers?
So, you play solo. Someone got caught early. Mori offering was used. Killer has noed aswell.
Unhooking -> tunnel and mori
Not unhooking and focusing gens to punish that -> get rofl stomped by noed
Not unhooking but also not focusing gens before all totems are destroyed to counter noed -> killer will catch and camp another one, maybe even 2 and he might find hatch first and its gg.
Seriously, sometimes I encounter those Killers and not a single strategy works. It's nearly fool safe for the killer to win.
Comments
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They wont win. At least not, when you not all die near the hook when he is camping. Those Killers will most likely not pip and maybe even depip. When yourself pip, you will get into Ranks where this is not common.
Of course there are Killers like this in Red Ranks, but most of the Killers playing like this are in yellow or Green Ranks.
NOED sucks with your examples, because the counter to camping Killers is doing Gens, and then you get punished by NOED. But I feel that is nothing that can be changed.
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It's not about pipping but about killing and surviving in that scenario. No one cares about pipping nowadays, but especially not those killers. Hell, they would be even more happy to depip for more ez games in low ranks.
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What I mean is:
You will not face those Killers all the time. If you are going to say that you have those Killers in every Match, you are not telling the truth. You will have a lot of normal games where you can Rank up. The more you rank up, the lower is the possibility to face those Killers, because they wont rank up because of their playstyle (one-hooking people and camping, which also results in poor Gatekeeper).
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They're not uncounterable per se, but you have to play a lot harder to do it. Also if a killer is bringing out Ebony Moris you sort of have to expect to lose or suffer heavy casualties. Moris are inherently unfair, but that's the game. You win some, you lose some. It's not like you will be fighting Ebony Moris every game.
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But you know, pipping means winning. Either surviving, either killing means winning. You can just hide the whole game in a locker and run straight through the hatch when the last one died, you can facecamp every survivor you catch. Depip incoming.
It's quite simple: in games you know you cant win, just farm points for your pips.
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You make it sound as if killing a survivor is something a killer isnt supposed to do.
If he manages to tunnel a survivor fresh off a hook, then that means another survivor unhooked wrong and the "tunneled" survivor failed at getting away or
loopingstalling the killer.A killer is using noed is down a perk until it activates. Which didnt seem to be the case in your example, so why are you complaining about it.
The only people allowed to whine about noed are those who got hit first, the exposed warning afterwards is enough warning to get totem hunting.
If you dont want to get hit by noed campers, take your time to cleanse totems while that "bad bad" killer is camping and the other 2 are camping the killer because theyre greedy for the unhook.
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I don't know I still like pipping, as I feel like it signals whether I won or not (as surviving or dying doesn't matter to me as long as I had a good game and had fun). But I'm in a mixed situation I hate getting to rank 1 every season, but I play to try and pip.
Me: Oh no, I'm already nearly at rank 1
Also Me: Yay, I pipped.
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For me pipping was always just a participation trophy.
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And you make it sound as if escaping a killer is something a survivor isn't supposed to do.
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Two issue I have with the complaints;
1. Do totems and noed doesn't activate.
2. Win (not loop or stall) chases and the killer can't camp you
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the best solution will be 3 remaining people doing gens, then the first one who does the gen goes for the save or the best looper, if the killer does not follow you, teabag him, make him anger, I mean make him chase you after the sacrifice of the poor guy, and well pallet loop, stun him in the face (this is assuming that you are a good looper), with luck you will survive, since when you get angry you are mostly gonna make mistakes (I mean the killer will be angry if you teabag him hard and make him feel bad as a player that cannot kill a teabagger then he will be mad) or well is a sacrifice you made to make him not get those 4 kills.
then teabagging is a strategy XD
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Die quick, go to the next game. What's the big deal?
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No counters? NO counters????
For the Tunneling: The unhooked needs to be able to get away. It's on them if they get caught again, OR the unhooker needs to not unhook them at a bad time.
For the Noed:
Let's say it slower maybe since it's been said 10,000 times already,
c l e a n s e t o t e m s
"No counters" miss me with that
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The problem in your games is you, you yourself need to get better so that you can survive when the odds are overwhelmingly against you.
Now I sound like a generic ''git gud'' spokesperson but no I'm giving advice. If your teams are constantly going down to ######### killers who need to camp and need Moris and NOED then your teams are lacking the most important role, The Runner.
You need to learn how to kite and loop hard, you need to learn the loops, what's safe and not safe, the windows, don't throw down pallets early etc. You need to be the one who runs that Killer around the map until he gets tired of you or until your ######### team can do the Gens. I learned how to do this and everyone who does doesn't have these problems that much. Now you may still die because your team sucks ass without lips but you will die knowing you got better and that you died with honor, you were the very ######### best and everyone who dies after you is a ######### stain someone else will find because they can't loop for more than 5 seconds.
Everyone has a different strategy when they do this, mine is Dead Hard. I will loop windows and normal loops etc and I will switch it up and move to another one sometimes without dropping pallets. When I get hit I drop the pallet the next time around and force them to break it and drop their Bloodlust giving me more time to go to another loop and Dead Hard will get me to another pallet somewhere far away from everyone. Dead Hard extends chases like you would not believe if you don't already use it.
So become a Runner and kite that Killer for the team and die with your middle fingers out or escape with your head held wherever you hold it whether you're prideful or not. I hold my head down because I respect the Killer since I would rather be the one sticking my claws into people's backs than running away from it.
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And there's the rub. Save for Badham, chases are yours to lose. You cannot win against the killer by yourself. If you are the runner, you need your teammates to do objectives. If they blaze down the gens then the killer likely runs Noed and you go down. If they don't blaze down the gens then you lose bc pallets are finite, entity blocker, and tier 3 Bloodlust all exist.
This is where the BS about "infinites" come in. "Infinites" only exist if the remaining 3 Surviviors finish the game before all the "you suck at chases so here's the bones we're gonna throw at you to help" mechanics come in to save killers from losing outright. I constantly find myself wanting to side with Surviviors on issues of game balance bc killers spend all their fkn time complaining about how survivors get all these second chance perks but second chance mechanics literally exist to save them when they're bad at chases.
This is what has always confused me as a survivor and killer player. If I were to camp somebody the counter to that would be if all the Surviviors genrushed and punished me for camping by applying pressure through gens. But let's say I run Noed, suddenly the counter to both my camping and Noed is to somehow genrush and not genrush at the same time. This means camping suddenly becomes a lose/lose
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Let's see:
Is the killer campings do gens AND totems! You got the time.
Bring BT and save the poor soul on the hook. Protect him. Just watch out for MYC!
Other counters are: Keys, all perks that lets you avoid getting down/caught in the first place. Bound and Kindred can be useful too.
An early Mori is not different from a early DC or someone who kills themselves on the first hook.
If you have trouble finding the totem spots, run small game for a while until you memorize the common spawning points.
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Ok I see the problem here. The counters for Camping and NOED are mutually exclusive with each other and thus you are having problems, fair enough.
Here's the thing. Camping is actually slow enough that you can gen rush anways and even with NOED he won't get more than a 2k unless he stops camping so long as you actually gen rush.
As a solo this can suck because the entire team needs to gen rush and hard for this to work. So it's understandable that this would be frustrating.
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Basically, the game needs changes, core changes. You described the game's biggest problems and it all ends up to lose/lose. The Gens and Hooks do not go well together because they create problems.
I believe Deathgarden solved this problem, they don't have Hooks, they respawn. They don't have Gens, they drain one object and pour that into the main object. If you lose all your lives you get executed. This version of DBD simplified what DBD has and this also means no NOED or getting looped or unsafe hook saves or gen rushing. If DBD took those design tips from Deathgarden we wouldn't have as many problems as we do now because the design is simple and takes into account core problems.
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@HatCreature I believe I said it a couple of months ago: If you really want to get rid off tunneling, you have to remove hooks and let survivors respawn instead. But then, this game wouldn't be DbD anymore. I don't know what the majority of the playerbase would prefer.
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So to be honest there isn't a whole lot of difference between being hooked and re-spawning. You're still in time out. The real change from this would be the ripple effect that comes with it, hook perks and less Altruism. I would be ok with respawning, especially if they did a really sick animation like a pool of black bile just spits you out onto the ground and you steam for several seconds. But if they did do this it would take quite a bit of work to fill in the gaps it leaves.
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@HatCreature Correct, there wouldn't be any unhooking anymore and everything that's related to it. No small changes.
Bloodpoints and Emblem points aside, you would also have to work on the balancing, because with respawning, survivors wouldn't need time anymore to go for unhooks.
It would change the game significantly and as I wrote above, I have no idea whether the majority of players would like to have such big changes.
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I don't think the Devs would do it BUT if they were interested in going in that direction they could do a poll. Or we could a poll and maybe if the community responds to it with enough positivity then maybe the Devs would consider it. But I don't think they would since like you said it changes the game. I actually made a 2v8 mode thread with this idea in mind that no one commented on.
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"So you play solo" - well first of all, it's a team game. You're not meant to be able to win the game on your own... If a team works well together, the killer simply has no chance.
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Indeed. The game encourages tunneling. The quicker you take a survivor out, the slower the other survivors' game progression becomes. If you evenly distributed those 12 hooks it can take to kill everyone (24 hits), the odds of the killer downing everyone, before all generators complete, are significantly lowered.
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Ebony moris can be tough, I'd like to see them go along with Keys to be honest.
But NOED, That's the survivors fault if it procs. You had all game to do totems, They only take 14 seconds. Treat every game like there's NOED and you'll never have to worry about it again.
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Listen bud, 2 minutes is not enough to punish a killer by doing all gens and all totems.
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Yes, if killer play camping or tunneling probably he'll depip. And that's why at low levels we have tons of campers!!!!
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As a solo, every single survivor will leave his gen at least once to unhook, just to realise that he gets camped. And even when the survivor has kindred, the lack of informations how many totems are already cleansed is playing perfectly into the hands of the camping killer with noed against a solo team
Post edited by justarandy on1 -
######### are you talking about? Are you alright lad?
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You aren't hearing me. Say I hook a survivor in the basement and facecamp them. Even if the Surviviors abandon their hooked friend to die, they have 2 options here. And both are a losing situation for them if the killer runs Noed.
1. Genrush. Hard. But this would require 3 toolboxes, no ruin, and doing literally nothing except generators. No healing. No cleansing. No sabotaging. No hiding. No poking in to see if a save is possible. No nothing. Fall on the gens and pray to God the guy holds on, don't doing nothing, while we hopefully get gens done.
2. Don't rush gens to stop Noed, and the. The guy on the hook dies for nothing
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THANK YOU!
All these people saying "weLl jUst do Gens and ToTeMS."
That is the grossest over-simplification of camping.
- I have to go assess the situation and FIND OUT that the killer is hard camping and not just breaking pallets, kicking gens, or patrolling the area.
- Once you find out the killer is still near hook, you have to try to coordinate with ANOTHER teammate for one person to distract and pull the killer away while the other person gets the save.
- THEN when you find out the killer won't follow anyone, you have to rush gens.
If I'm being GENEROUS, that takes a full minute (assuming a 4 man SWF with comms because none of the above is even possible with less than that) which is half of the hooked person's lifespan.
BUT for the sake of argument, let's say the person gets hook, there's 4 gens left and the survivors already know the killer is camping. It's still literally impossible to do 4 gens and 5 totems in 2 minutes.
This is why people consider camping toxic to the game. Hell I've tested it myself and I ended up with 3ks and 4ks every time I camped someone. "Just do gens and totems" is a statement not based in the reality of what actually has to occur in the match
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You're seeing green from all of your toxicity... You're moaning about crucial game mechanics, it's just so boring to hear this over and over again. It always happens after a salty survivor has just lost a match and comes here to rant about it. Meanwhile they teabag everytime they've won a match by pallet looping for 10 minutes.
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Tbf if a killer gets pallet looped by one dude for 10 minutes they kinda deserved to lose
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In that situation, borrowed time and decisive come in clutch. If he has a moris tough, you just won't even black pip the match.
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That's the issue and that's why playing solo is miserable. If the killer is toxic and camps, genrushing is a must to punish him. But in a solo q environment good luck making that happen.
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