Why Are Toolboxes Still in the Game?
Genuine question. How is it that it's fair for Survivors to have Toolboxes? Prove Thyself is fine because all it does is make up for an inefficiency so it's not actually speeding up the objective more than normal, and Resilience is a risk/reward, but Toolboxes just let Survivors do objectives faster without any skill involved.
You just equip a Toolbox, and rush. That isn't healthy for the game. What if Killers had a perk that made any hook sacrifice Survivors 25% faster? People would riot. I think it's high time that Toolboxes get removed.
Feel free to criticize me or give a reason as to why Toolboxes might be fair or healthy. Or agree with me. Either way, discuss.
Comments
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What if Killers had a perk that made any hook sacrifice Survivors 25% faster?
One day
One day Shrine will become all powerful
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You could bring Franklin’s Demise.
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I had a post talking about this and they called me a mad man xD
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By asking this, you are basically asking why are any add-ons or items in the game for killer and survivor?
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Personally I think toolboxes should affect skillchecks rather than repair speed, for example the dimention of normal/great skillchecks, the amount of bonus progression for a great skillcheck etc
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Another salt thread, basically.
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Why are killer addons in the game?
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The post isnt about addons in general. It's about a specific one. It would make as much sense responding with the same thing in the next Prayer Beads thread.
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This killer main thinks toolboxes are plenty fair. Sure, they speed up the objective, but killers have an array of counterplay. If you fail to capitalize, you're gonna have a hard time. Learn the loops, learn the mindgames, learn that in their little core survivors have a tendency to get unfocused so it's pretty easy to turn things around.
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If Killers get addons that increase movement speed, insta-down, extra blinks, reduce cooldown on powers, and other broken effects, then a toolbox shaving off a few seconds from your repair time is positively benign.
Might as well remove all add-ons from the game if you think Toolbox is broken.
Faster sacrifice on hook speed? Seriously? Insta-downs are a much bigger issue than any kind of nonsense hook speed increase.
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there is a lot of dumb ######### that shouldn't exist
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It depends on the killer. Many aren't worth using without addons. With killers I think it's more about using them to fit your playstyle than to push them into OP territory with some exceptions like Nurse.
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Lol, I believe it shaves off like 15 seconds bro, i know the times add up but it really isnt game breaking bro, youre most likely just getting rushed and not paying alot of attention to ur gens,
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Toolboxes should increase the repair speed slightly not moderately except the purple one maybe.
Considerably/tremendously toolboxes are overkill in my opinion. To prove i'm right use Mechanics/engineers toolboxes with clean rag-Socket swivels. Play with prove thyself and streetwise you'll see how the toolboxes are powerful.
Note: Streetwise stacks if you are a SwF your toolboxes while be able to do 2/3 gens depending of how many streetwise they are.
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Capitalize? Capitalize on what? There is only one real counterplay to "The gens go faster, period." and Survivors bawl their eyes out when they get hit with NoED.
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*insert all the add-ons and offerings that can reduce the chase and hook time because technically mori reduces the hooks to 2 instead of 3 * There is much available.
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I can sort of agree with you. The addon system, I have bitched about it for ages, is inherently unbalance.
in any game, you can be up against 1-4 survivors who may or may not repair generators faster than normal. You're up against abnormal balance conditions that can make or break the game in a meta where literal seconds count! The game isn't balanced around Toolboxes being the optimal mode of play, the game is balanced around empty-handed survivors.
Again, I hate to say it again and again, but "you won't face it every game" isn't an argument. If 4 toolbox survivors is a problem in one game, it's a problem all the time, because survivors are smart enough to play the meta. Toolboxes shorten the win condition of the killer to the point where most killers cannot exert enough pressure on gens to "win" by 2-king
Good survivors already make sure the killer has no Gen pressure, only Hook pressure. Toolboxes only exacerbate this issue.
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Toolboxes aren't that great anyway. The gen rush is not about the purple toolbox, you get gen rushed when 3 survivors appear at the side of a generator and that's not their fault. Remove toolboxes from the game and still killers will get gen rushed, specially by SWF teams.
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You have add-ons based on your killer's power suited to help whatever that power is which usually involves helping you in chases and getting hooks more quickly. And let's also account for the fact that there is a perk for this. And if you choose not to take that perk you focus the ones with toolboxes.
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Removing insta downs doesn't make killers stronger
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It'd be a lot harder to sabatage hooks without toolboxes. Not impossible but harder. Also, don't worn tools make repairing require more skill? I could have sworn it has reduced skill check areas and more skill checks.
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A mori is still relatively comparable when bringing up toolboxes though, even if by a stretch. They can be slotted in a load out just like toolboxes. You can take someone out of the game faster therefore getting you much closer to your objective which is to kill.
There are also brown add ons which take away an entire exhaustion perk. Granted I realize not every killer has one.
The value you get out of toolboxes can be lost with the right pressure.
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I'm a killer main and in all honesty if u can't win cuz someone has a toolbox then u should try and practice more, if u see someone with a toolbox aim for them tunnel them if u have to idc, but in all seriousness I had a match where everyone had a toolbox and I still win. So practice more and get used to going against survs with toolboxes. And monsterous shrine I believe that's what the perk is called makes it to where if u hook someone in a basement it will speed the process of calling the entity by 6% depending on wat tier it's on.so both side has something to speed their objective up, and with this being said I wanna take a wild guess and say ur somewhat new to dbd.
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If Ruin, Pop, Tremors, Surveillance, and the myriad other methods of active gen guarding aren't enough, each killer has plenty of powers, you can slug two every time you hook one, you can learn to patrol more efficiently, or any of the many, many tactics that experience brings you.
Tunnelers, campers, people who rely on moris, these are the people who whine about 'no counterplay', because they never learned to actually play the game with skill.
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Faster hooks? That exists.
Monstrous shrine. Coupled with iron grasp.
No escape. And its accepted.
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So "Do everything you already have to do, but you have even less time." Seems fair.
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Sounds like playing killer's stressful for you. I'm not sure we'll be able to agree, then :P
Toolboxes are entirely fair. So are flashlights, medkits, and while I'd personally rework keys a bit they're pretty fair too. The game's not perfect, but frankly it's balanced except where matchmaking is concerned.
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Sure there is. It's called add-ons. If your add-ons are not allowing you to down, hook, sacrifice, kill, or otherwise complete your objective faster then I don't know what to tell you. Take off speed-limiter, maybe?
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Toolboxes make the gen rush even worse and you can work through Ruin pretty good as well. Although they don't have to be removed completely imo they should get reworked to a more skillful way at least.
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Better than anything I could have said. There are mechanics on both sides that let you skip, ignore, or advance an objective and therefore save time. Do we want to see it every round? No. Can we control how often we encounter these things? Also no.
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Nice Red Herring. "I can't argue your point, it must be a you problem."
You still have haven't explained why faster gens with no downside is fair. Even Moris have more counterplay to them now than toolboxes.
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".. Even Moris have more counterplay to them now than toolboxes.." OMG
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Persoanlly, if a player brings in a tool box, that means they dont have an instant heal, which is fine by me. Tool boxs are also the only way to sabotage hooks (i think)which is a vastly under-utilized mechanic. Sabo the hooks close to the gates and with out iron grasp you usually cant make the next closest hook, they wiggle free and make a clean escape.
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Still have yet to have someone prove otherwise.
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During the dev Q&A 3.1.0 they said Monstrous Shrine will get a rework, now the answer is WHEN...
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I can't keep up with the issues of the day. It bounces too much.
Toolboxes
Instant heals
Keys
Loops
Pallets
Why are windows still in the game?
Why is hatch still .......
NOED
Instant downs
Moris
BBQ
Bushmaster Claudette.....ok, I made that one up
Seriously, these are not worth the fuss. This forum is 80% whine and 20% decent ideas. Can we stop crying over the little things, or make a sub forum for issues of the week that can be ignored by logical people?
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Wat
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This is a new low.
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You got our brand new part removed, now you want toolboxes removed all together? Why dont we have your ultra rare perks removed xD we need them to be filthy hook breakers aswell, not just reparing
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It is a you problem: burden of proof is on the person making a claim, not the counterclaim, and you've yet to say anything proving that 60 second gens are significantly worse than 80 second gens. If the killer isn't capable of beginning and maintaining gen pressure, they don't deserve a kill, full stop. Just like if survivors are incapable of looping, they don't deserve long chases.
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Shoot buff up the toolboxes i say. Reason why is because there is becoming more and more killers that lag switch and camp either make the toolbox buffed or have a time/ban penalty for those that kill. First the developers slow down altruism on generators now some person is begging them to debuff toolboxes. Like really bruh need to make it where killers cant do anything till 2 minutes not even move or if they camp they get teleported away from survivors and stunnd for 10 seconds so there is enough time for the survivor to get away or stun killers that tunnel because I've noticed that most of the killers i come across either tunnel or camp. Enough said no arguments anymore say what you want but its the truth. Whoever started this thread is probably a noob and got beat by 4 survivors with yellow toolboxes with buffed up speed as add-ons. G'day mate
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Some great posts here, but I feel this one sums-up my thinking on this.
I see loads of posts about gen rushing and ruin - but not many about toolboxes. Gen speed can be influenced by perks, but let's assume everyone above yellow ranks run the meta. I believe anything that can be brought into the game that can considerably affect gameplay balance, should not be included in the game. This includes items, add-ons and offerings that considerably/tremendously influence objectives. It should be a more level playing field. A slow moving killer is going to struggle against a SWF team with green or purple toolboxes.
Conversely, pink ultra-rare killer add-ons should also be removed. A pig with an Amanda's Letter or a wraith with a Coxcombed Clapper and "All Seeing" - Spirit or Myers with Judith's Tombstone or Fragrant Tuft Of Hair.
Most of the time when I've played as killer with ultra-rare add-ons - I've been unbeatable and felt bad for the survivors. These are game-changing, game-breaking mechanics which have little to do with skill. I know they're ultra rare, but they affect game balance too much. I also think some very rare purple killer add-ons are OP, such as Scratched Mirror on Myers or Prayer Beads on Spirit.
BTW: I don't think streetwise is that much of a problem, as hardly anyone uses it. But I see it's potential.
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