Does SWF Actually need a Nerf?
So we've all seen plenty of threads on here from killer mains talking about how when they go up against a good SWF group, they have to bring ruin, or pop goes the weasel, or noed, and play hard just to get a 2k because the SWF is popping gens like no tomorrow.
Here's the thing.
- The devs have specifically balanced the game that the average round should be about 2 kills and 2 escapes, so if sweaty high rank killers are getting 2k against sweaty high rank SWF, that's balanced.
- When high rank killers go sweaty and only get 2k against sweaty SWF... that means those SWF went sweaty and only had two escapes. It's not a reason to nerf survivors just because killers had to play sweaty against sweaty SWF.
- At high ranks in any videogame, people are a lot more skilled than low ranks. Go play COD at level 50 vs level 10, it's different. Same on Rainbow Six Siege.
- Killer mains. This isn't Resident Evil 4 on ultra hard. If you're getting 4k's a lot, that either means you're really good, or up against crappy survivors, or the game is unbalanced. It also means you're killing the game and contributing to long killer que times. When 1 killer gets a 4k, that means 4 survivor players lost and feel cruddy. 4k's are not a sellable game model. And not only are there TONS of addictive online games, DBD is not an A list game. It's has a fair share of bugs and not amazing graphics. I'm sure the Devs have done their best on the budget, but the gameplay is limited and the graphics are xbox 360 level at best. You really think if killers are getting a lot of 4ks, that people will keep playing survivor just to play and lose so you can win?
- This only applies to a few killer mains who stand out like spotlights on forums and make them all look bad--You're not the "power role" this is not a BDSM relationship with you as a dom, you're not here to "punish the cancer that is SWF" or "want to make them fear you and picture their hope dropping and becoming despair." GET THERAPY YOU DEMENTED FREAKS.
Comments
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hi, I only read the title.
no
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I agree with this, I come from a long line of competitive communities in gaming but DBD killers don't seem to get it. Against 4 really good players on com, it's supposed to be hard. 4K is not how an average game should go. 2K is fine, hell if you hook a ton and give a ton of pressure you can get a black pip if you kill one person.
Now don't get me wrong, there are only a handful of viable killers at red rank and swf survivors do have things tipped in their favor. But it's not nearly as bad as most killers think. Haddonfield should get reworked and a few more killers should get something to bump them up but the game is by no means a stomp in survivors favor.
If anything, solo queue should be brought up to SWF level tbh then if devs wanna hand out nerfs they can but I don't think the game is in bad shape with regards to balance.
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- Agreed, it's like when you play Rainbow Six Siege and get a 3k. It's not supposed to happen every game, at all. It's supposed to be a memorable thing that happens only now and then.
- Killers talk about how only a few killers are viable, and only certain perks. Survivors have the same issue. That's why killers complain only about a handful of Survivor perks--because there's only a handful of good ones, so survivors play them all the time because they like seeing their person escape.
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I just read the title, swf is fine imo.
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no, solo survivor need acces to voice chat and the dev need to balance the game around voice chat being a thing
spending years slowly adding like chase indicator and stuff of the sort to make solo equal to swf is stupid when it can be done with one single change
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Killer is supposed to be the power role. It's how asymmetrical games work. There is a power role and a numbers role. Also, a 2K at red ranks is going to be a de-pip 99% of the time.
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SWF doesn't need nerf, solo needs buff to be more like SWF, and killer may need buffs to compensate.
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Well enjoy your 3k's and your 20 minute que to play 1 killer round then...?
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Is there any actual data that shows killers need a buff? Such as, at rank 5 they average 40% kills?
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Is it so bad to ask to get at least a safety? If you are at rank one and they truly want an even balance, balance around getting safety pip. If you don't want that, then you're bias is clear.
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It's fairly commob knowledge that most Killers need buffs. Nurse? No. Billy? No. Spirit? No. The rest? Yes.
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The most recent official data shows a 60% survival rate for rank 2 survivors. But that's not the point. I say killers would need buffs to compensate for solo survivors getting buffs. Since Solo would ideally be as strong as SWF, killers would need to be balanced around that strength.
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How exactly are you going to do an SWF nerf?
You can't nerf SWF without nerfing survivors in general, because all that SWF is, is a grouping system that enables people to do voice chat prior to starting a game.
And solo survivors can do that if they really had a mind to -- they just need to post their discord or even their Steam ID in the lobby before the game starts.
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This is actually not a bad idea.
You can start of by making these perks baseline:
Survivor: Bond, Empathy, Kindred
Killer: NoEd, Ruin
Change like this would help solo survivors work on par with SWF teams, and Killer gets perks that force the "secondary objective" and slow the game down.
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Huntress, Hag and Freddy don’t need buffs.
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You don't play much clearly
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It may not need a nerf as long as killers are properly equipped
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Your comparison of COD, R6 and RE4 to DBD makes absolutely no sense.
For one, none of those are Asymmetric Horror Games, so trying to compare similar aspects of different genres doesn't make sense. COD and R6 are both FPS games with an equal amount of players on each team, so again, bad comparison.
Your entire 4th argument is pretty poor. You focus on how getting a 4k ruins the fun for the killer, and increases queue times (which makes absolutely no sense), but ignore the fact that killers constantly going against well organized SWF and having them consistently escape ruins the fun for killers. You say 4K's aren't a selling point, both I don't believe "easy escapes with little to no effort" is much of a selling point either. Also, there are plenty of games in which 3-4 survivors escape, which usually means the killers lose, and the killers still continue playing. Why can't survivors do the same?
This entire argument is basically "if playing survivor is hard, then the game sucks." With no real insight as to how the game is on the killers side.
As for my opinion, yes SWF does need a slight nerf, nothing drastic. The fact that they're able to give away killer position, trap locations, totem locations, communicate about gens/progress gives them a better advantage since killers have to rely on their powers and sound queues to simply find survivors. But the devs also need to buff solo player slightly as well. It's not fair that the SWF players have more information simply because they're using comms, which leaves the solo players to just hope everyone does the right thing.
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Huntress could do with some QoL changes and Hag coulf use her base range extended. I still think Freddy should have his teleport at the start of the match but oh well. Also, Huntress is VERY map reliant.
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Most killers are map reliant to an extent, for instance, as LF you’re going to have a much harder time on Lery’s, Billy can’t chainsaw patrol as easily on The Game or Lery’s, Stealth killers need maps with LOS blockers, Nurse is going to have a harder time on Lery’s and the Corn maps to an extent, most M1 killers struggle on Haddonfield and The Game.
I’d say Trapper, Hag and Spirit are the only non-map reliant killers.
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I'd argue Freddy as well, he can always place down snares and pallets. However, other than Killers on Haddonfield in general, Huntress suffers the most from map design. Higher loops absolutely cripple her.
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I actually forgot to list Freddy, she is definitely the most hurt but I think she is still viable.
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I swear, it's like this forum pays people to troll, but then I remember the people I run into from within the game and remember, this ######### is probabkly real.
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Depends on how good the player is, I suppose if you can hit all of your hatchets and end chases before they get to loops it isn't a problem. It's very difficult to do that, but, I guess it is possible.
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Not sure who you are talking about, the responses or the OP.
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this place just baffles me, that's all. from the same issues being discussed in various threads, to the posters on here who have thousands of responses. Just a little counting shows that some people would have to be posting once every few minutes for more than 16 hours a day, or many times a minute. who could be on here that much?
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Not sure. If they want to help out and answer, more power to them!
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For sure, no doubt.
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I don't believe that's true. @GrootDude and I, though we may disagree, respectfully argue with eachother. We have mutual respect, I respect his views and he mine, though we try to make the other see our side. That is a civil discussion. Namecalling, bitter arguing and the cussing out of others is not.
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
Precisely this, as long as the people discussing are respectful a discussion can stay civil.
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Honestly all they have to do is buff solo by using more things for the hud. Survivor is being chased? Tell us! Someone doing a gen? Tell me! Simple things that I don't believe take much time to implement would drastically improve the solo experience.
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I already had therapy once to deal with my constant nightmares when I was younger, this all put me in a bad place even after it so I'mma say no and stay a demented freak
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@Awesley91 "...play hard just to get a 2k because..."
So, with solo with survivors you don't need to play hard to get 3k or 4k. Solo players want nerf for killers or buff for survs!
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Swf AND Cwf have NO mechanical differences to solo players. All advantages come from external knowledge the game simply isnt designed for you to have.
Grouping up removes uncertainity about skill level, experience and intentions of other players.
Cwf grants real time information exchange. On a a basis of asking and receiving.
In this case giving solo survivors aura reading or hud info is even stronger in some situations; you dont need to first inquire or ask about mechanically given info.
You cant nerf swf without putting in annoying artifical restrictions. That'd be like spirit's and legions stupid gauge mechanics suddenly being implemented for every other killer.
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2 escape and 2 escape is not a win for the killer. He did only half his goal.
Half the solosurvivors failed at their goal. Half did succeed. For each individual survivor theres nothing wrong.
Putting swf or its' team mentality into theat scenario, its a failure, the team only did 50%.
2/2 is a draw or a loss.
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Ofc it needs nerfs...
If you are decent as survivor you can waste a lot of killer's time during the first chase without breaking much pallets. To be even safer survivor takes 1 exhaustion perk.
Now, if you loop well its good idea to take bond, so you don't bring killer to gens beeing worked on or other survivors (Hillbilly is the worst case scenario for beeing caught off guard).
I am huge fan of kindred: if killer camps, ppl do gens, he looses. Easy. It also guarantees that someone will go for save and that someone will stay on gen if they are not braindead.
We are down to 1 perk slot for a second chance but i personally like spine chill too much to not take it.
Now, survivors in swf can just comunicate. Bro i'm in that corner doing gen, mind looping killer shack instead? I'm going for save, you guys pump gens. Killer shack is trapped all arround. Its mirror Myers, be careful, lets not do this gen to prevent 3gen. I can go on for hours... All those informations for no perk slots which can be used for second chances.
Dead hard, adrenaline, ds, bt are meta now for a reason. Of course, these are not the only good perks, but they just combo too damn well.
Return of double (and even tripple!) pallets and double standards all arround are not helping either... If anyone thinks swf is fine they simply never played against decent survivors (decent, not 5k gods, just decent).
Edit: All it takes to balance it out is making swf visible for killers (with difference between 2-2 and 4men) and addition stacking queue penalty for dodging. You dodge, you wait longer and longer. You go 4men, be prepared for good killer with good addons and potential mori. This also prevents situations where killer just stopms bunch of rando after bullshit game against swf. Most iridescents would go against swf.
Post edited by HazeHound on0 -
Does SWF need a nerf? Not really.
But the game need to adapt around SWFs being a thing. Like having lobby indicators for SWF players. Giving maps the Bedham treatment is gonna improve the QoL for many killers, leading to less SWF-related frustration overall.
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This argument is literally the worst argument you could ever come up with. So basically you want one side to be completely overpowered while the other is focused on stealth play and walking in a straight line. Even mentioning how killer should be the power role and basically 4k every game is just idiotic.
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Then don't play an asymmetrical game. One role has numbers, which gives them an early advantage. One, has power, which let's them snowball later in the game. That's is the most simple and basic definition.
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Actually I play a lot. I get rank 1 killer and survivior every season and I main Hag/Spirit. Maybe I'm just good at the game and don't whine about red rank SWFs to be some omnipotent gods that I should dodge and D/C when I see them.
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Hag does not need a buff whatsoever. She's 4th best killer IMO. Freddy is fine as of now and Huntress is very map dependant true, perhaps they could make greater LoS areas in more maps but still, she's 5th/6th best and pretty solid.
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That means Dwight, Claudette and Hag need new perks.
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"...2/2 is a draw or a loss..."
2/2 is 50% of chances for a survivor to escape, so yes, is balanced. If you think a win is 3k survivors can think that the need 75% of escapes, and this is only a 1k for you. Or do you think survs play to escape 1 of 10 games only?
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I have three questions if i may.
First off. When as a killer, i kill 2 survivors and two escape. Why do i dedip when 3 and such should be memorable? I do certainly well as a killer, kill 2 survivors and hook almost every one of them, and entity still can be displeased which results in de-dip ...
Second ... If you are not supposed to kill everyone. Why Nurse and The Spirit are perfectly capable to do so and they are considered okay by the devs while other killers struggle?
And a third one ... Sure i personaly agree, you should not be able to kill everyone each game. But this game changed into chase simulator, there is no tension, when i as a killer play againts ranks above 4 ... They mostly circle around me and knowing i am no threat, if i am not Nurse or The Spirit ... So how fair is that?
The problem is, this is 1v4 game. Someone compared R6S to this which is actualy bullshit ... It is 5v5 game ... As 1v4 you should have fair chance to kill all of the four. You have no help, no ability to coopreate like survivors are. If the matches are anything bellow three kills a match its a failure even by ranked system standart. I see what are you comming from. But if this should be okay, there would not be rank 1 killers to begin with.
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If they nerf swf, peeps are just gonna start using skype, discord, and steam to voice chat to communicate. Modern problems, modern solutions and whatnot.
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Since I found this place I'm on here that much... mostly just lurking though. Soaking up the drama.
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Okay so far you've called me a demented freak for wanting to be a power role as killer against 4 survivors. What a wonderful person you are. I don't want constant 4k's, but I don't want 0 chance games either where they just rush gens despite me still sweating my ass off.
That's another thing, why SHOULD I always sweat like hell when playing killer? Survivors don't sweat, it's super chill for them.
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No. Survivors are mechanically identical between SWF and solos, and trying to directly attack the real advantages (communication and knowing the people you're playing with) is a complete and utter waste of time and resources.
A lot of frustrations can be mitigated by taking a look at problematic maps and map sections, and while it's a work in progress the Badham variants make it clear the devs want to go down that route. Combine that with a possible attack on the inequality of available information by making solo players have the knowledge needed to be more efficient + killers changes to compensate, and you're on the right path.
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U can't nerf voice communication (discord) in the first place. And since voice communication is the strongest thing survivors can have (yes even stronger than perks, items, offerings) The only option is to buff killers. To balance that out solos need individual buffs (buffs which only benefit solos and not swf.. Or at least will give solos a bigger benefit than swf groups).
Post edited by justarandy on1 -
SWF doesn't need a nerf, However solo should be brought up to the level of SWF and then killers should be buffed accordingly to that level.
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Simple question for those who think 3ks and 4ks should be common for killers.
If a survivor player has a 0%-25% chance of his character living, do you think many people will play survivor? Seriously. Are you brain dead? Have fun with your 30 minute ques. This game literally requires 4x as many survivor players as killer players.
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