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I'm new, and wouldn't have bought DLC if I knew killers can take off 2.5x lives with a dumb offering
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Well you mentioned the whole gen rushing thing so I was weighing in on it. To me I don't think survivors have anything in their kit that compares to Mori's. Also I find that most killers who use Ebony Mori's do so because they probably had a bad game, the game before. So they are looking to ruin survivors games. Usually they are accompanied by their strongest add-ons, like Iridescent Hatchet Huntress, Prayer Beads Spirit etc.
Most people don't take them normally. Usually pride says no to it because it's seen as a cheap and easy way to win, or because they don't get very much bloodpoints, and tend not to rank up. However Ebony Mori killer is still way more common than a super coordinated SFW Teams all carrying Insta heal medkits. lol
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Yeah we just see things differently and that's fine. But ebony is not as gamebreaking as people claim it to be. Ofc it's very strong but why couldn't it be. Not like DBD right now is in perfect state of balance. Both sides have broken stuff and opinion regarding which is has more broken stuff differ.
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Although you are completely right in your point, I would totally back a hidden trait for Ash that if all other survivors have escaped and he's the only one left he gets his weapons back and the killer has to find the hatch to escape him.
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The Mori is the Killer equivalent of the Key, it is an instant win where the other side has no counter or chance and no one enjoys that.
I've heard interesting ways to balance them but only remember 1
To Mori a single Survivor the Killer must use their power on a Survivor and hook them 3 times, so Trapper can trap 3 people and hook any of them, any of those 3 Survivors become a candidate for a Mori. The Mori Offerings increase how many Survivors you are able to Mori so it is kind of like the Ivory Mori but has a few more requirements.
Another idea I vaguely remember was the Mori Offerings act as a form of Bloody Party Streamers, 100% bonus points for everyone but I forget the rest of the details. Basically the idea was that yeah everyone can die but they are all compensated for the trouble.
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Eh. I enjoy using mori's to blow off steam, and don't mind them being used against me. Just adapt to them, and do DS + Locker.
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Ahem..keys? They're literally the same thing except 1..they can be looted mid match meaning the killer is unaware of it existing 2.. while the mori speeds up a killers victory, the key rewards failure for survivors and 3..addons can make the key give extra benefits and can even be made reusable
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Oh look, a new player complaining about something in the game they dont fully understand every aspect of.
Have you considered the instant heals survivors have?
Or the brand new parts survivors have?
Its not JUST the killers that have "bullshit, nothing matters" items and perks. But posting both sides wouldn't fuel your argument at all, would it.
Or is it that you're one of the following:
1- The classic "blame everyone but me" player who cant take a loss, and learn the entirety of the game understanding that BOTH sides have heavily balance tilting items (which is fine imo).
or
2- You're NOT a new player, but on an alt account fueling the "remove ebony moris" train because we've seen that mass bitching gets ######### done.
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Sticking strictly to offerings that are OP, play any killer but nurse when survivors burn a Haddonfield offering. Gg
(Mostly kidding but still overly balanced towards the survivor)
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Hahaha. Fresh meat tasted their first MORI and left a salty taste in their mouth. Im glad
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There not that cool honestly. If they were much more detailed and gory it'd be a lot better.
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I can assure you that not all games are like this. It will be more fun when you play more
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Although I rarely ever use any type of mori I absolutely love the mori animations and appreciate the work the devs put in the mori animations.
Perhaps they could tweak the requirements to mori a survivor to make them feel less "unfair" so everyone can feel the "coolness" of moris rather than their "op-ness".
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Ver simply put, don't play the game if you're not willing to lose. Even without moris, there are games where you will be completely outclassed and dominated, so stop pointing towards the Mori as an excuse as to WHY you lost..
"Oh I'm really good at this game and that killer would've lost if he didn't have a Mori!" That's just a pointless thought to have. Just move on, and play the next match. I've played hundreds of hours and been Mori'ed like maybe 10 times.
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I’ll say Moris are only a issue cause you end up with scrub team mates. If the killer can’t catch ya he can’t hook ya no hook equals no mori. It’s the filthy casuals who can’t be bothered to learn how to abuse most killers.
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Just wait till Double BP when everyone runs Ebony Mori's. That is fun.
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To answer many saying the same thing: It's not about winning or lose. Being mori'd after a single down is like a forced ragequit you didn't ask for. It ruins the game. It makes it completely unfun. It's completely imbalanced.
I never said I had a problem with losing games. It was never even implied. The game is balanced less around winning and losing, and more around tempo and point accumulation. Even I know that after only 30 hours playing, so you all should as well. I don't have a problem losing when I've been given a CHANCE to get my +1 pip before getting freaking mori'd. You can get killed after a long game, and it's still pretty much a win because you got +2 pips.
I agree the animations are cool.
It's fine for the "last survivor alive" one. That's a much lower power spike than killing off the first survivor drastically sooner. I said that already, even...
And I think the perk is fine. At least it's a perk, and it has conditions to meet. And you can remove the hex totem.
But the 2 rarer Mori offerings are broken and need to be REMOVED.
It doesn't matter that most games are fine, and you "only" see Mori in 10% of games.
The fact that 10% of games are auto-ruined by a poorly designed and immensely imbalancing mechanic isn't okay. The two rarer Mori offerings should simply be removed.
I realize SWF is imbalanced, too. But Mori offerings are still allowed outside of SWF games.
Post edited by Oshirigami on1 -
They should make DS counter mori 1 time xD That would be funny. (This is a joke btw....)
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You can go ahead and drop the mic now. 👍
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Do you have an umlimited amount of Moris at your disposal? Do Moris absolutely, 100%, without any chance to not to, guarantee the Killer a 4k? No? Then they are not broken.
The terms "Broken" and "OP" are used very excessive These days, especially in this game. Why do you get worked up over something that happens so rarely? If you had a good game and got mori'd at the end of it,then you'll probably pip or even double pip anyway. If you get mori'd eearly, just move on to the next game.
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If 4 survivors load into my lobby at once, I bring out my Ebony Mori. SWFs probably appreciate the balance I bring to the game.
I wouldn't use one otherwise.
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Consider yourself lucky. When I started there's wasn't the hook requirement. The first time I got moried after 10 seconds of starting the match...
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If I bring an ebony mori to a match and you don't teabag or flashlight spam me during the game, I won't use it. But do that and you're dead. Only toxic survivors deserve the mori.
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I got moried once during my latest 100 hours
In some ranks it's more common then others, but yea mories aren't going anywhere soo better enjoy the awesome animation while you can
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Lets look at it from killer side. 4 man swf as rank 12 killer. 2 medkits, 2 tool boxes. Purple coin offering to add 2 chests. Game is over in 4 minutes. Score board shows one rank 16 player and three players between the ranks of 6 to 4. 2 instaheals and a bnp.
Guarantee you that game was not fun for the killer and happens way more than an eboni mori.
Also 30 hours in you are still playing with newer people. I loved bringing moris when i started as killer because it did give me an advantage. Time goes by you get better and then decide you don't need to bring them anymore. Until you go up against a game like i described last paragraph lol.
Do ebony moris need some work? Yes they do. But outside of the top 3 or 4 killers, it is really the only OP and unfair killer item most killers can bring.
Killer is supposed to be the power role and yet so many of them rely on survivor plays that in actuality the survivors dictate the game. The mori is about the only thing that gives killer any real threat and even then good survivors can absolutely make a killer waste the offering,
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Yes, @csandman1977 I did address that in the OP that SWF is the only thing that might be equally broken. That doesn't mean you can ignore the issue of Moris in the way the game was originally meant to be played and how I believe most play it, solo.
You're right, SWF is probably just as unfun and game breaking as Moris, but that doesn't mean one excuses the other.
I mean yeah I'd say that's reasonable I guess.
SWF and Ebony Mori are the two most broken things in the game and I guess they cancel each other out to some degree. As you note, it's completely broken against random groups.
In addition to removing Ebony and Ivory Mori, I'd like to see SWF limited to groups of 2... or at least give some sort of penalty (entity progress time?) to groups of 3 and 4. I felt that was another topic though, and with the two rarer Moris removed they could then focus on what makes SWF broken as a separate issue.
Or heck, you could instead make Cypress upgrade to Ivory when there is a SWF group of 3, and upgrade to Ebony when there is a SWF group of 4. That'd be a good way of removing those two offerings. Just turn the ones people currently have into Cypress which auto upgrade like that.
This entire post is strawman. Just wow.
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Remember when mori's didn't require hooking the survivor first?
Good times
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Yellow Mori is a "win more" mechanic that seals an already foregone conclusion, since it requires you to down the last survivor anyway.
Green Mori doesn't do anything except ruin the game for a single player.
Red Mori breaks the entire flow of the game all around. Like, it doesn't even matter what happens, as long as the killer isn't a complete potato.
On top of this, Mori kills actively hurt the killer's Sacrifice emblem score.
I understand the Mori thematically, but in practice, it's an incredibly toxic mechanic that doesn't bring any value to anyone, other than the "lol I'm just bringing it to troll/meme/other stupid Internet term" players out there. It's a canonized griefing mechanic.
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I do think that there's an argument to be made to change it so moris only work on death hook. Also that cypress mori should be base kit.
But, we still get objectives saying to kill someone with our own hand. (Mori) To do that without mori is rancor or devour hope. Can't rely on devour hope, although I did have a game last night where for once i got to mori someone half a second before they broke the totem but odds are usually stacked against you, especially at high ranks.
Anyway, the mori is really the only advantage against swf and therefor i just dont think they need to go away.
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No, @Oshirigami, disconnecting is not what you should do. Play through the game like normal. As you've discovered, mories are not something you will deal with every game.
Disconnecting at any point from the loading screen to the end of the match is bannable. Especially with dedicated servers rolling out as they are changing how punishments are handled
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Sorry, didn't actually know that it was bannable when done at the loading screen. If I would have known I wouldn't have encouraged it. I was just thinking of a way that wouldn't really screw over everyone else's stuff, like the survivors who DC after they get downed once.
But yeah, don't DC, ignore my silly rant.
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You wouldn't want to play Friday the 13th then considering Jason able to instantly kill you once he got ahold of you
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Wow.... the salt from this discussion... I could season a day's worth of fries sold at a Mcdonald's. The one I agreed with was "It's an asymmetrical game." 4 vs. 1
You need to have an advantage as Killer or the Survivors are just gonna bully ya. Go play Legion without add-ons or something if you don't believe me.
"OH so just cause he's Killer he should get XYZ?" Yes. Yes, he should. Cause he's on a team by himself. The Survivors have voice coms, 3 other people helping them, and a billion perks and add-ons to help them. The Killer has himself, a few perks and an ever shrinking clock to kill everyone before the gens pop way too fast.
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Whats up with the mori complain recently?, is this becoming a trend now?
Stop complaining they are not going to remove something they are working on since the game came out (animations for each killer), take it or leave it.
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I like facing a mori, they make games far more intense and challenging. The possibility of additional chances being removed helps to break you of relying on the benefits of safety mechanics.
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Exactly right, Keys nor insta-heals possess that level of power. Not to mention no counters to Mori, or Tombstone. What would a Survivor version of an Ebony Mori be? Maybe complete one Generator and the Hatch exclusively opens for you and cannot be closed by the Killer? Tombstone perhaps would involve surviving a Chase for 60 seconds and the Exit Gates are automatically opened? lol I can't imagine any Killers thinking these are fair or fun not to mention the denial of points or rank regression. Maybe if you're Mori or TS, the game could safety pip then people wouldn't care.
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The only problem I have with mori's is when the killer doesn't move me to a clear area so I can properly see the Mori. All the animations are pretty cool and I enjoy watching them.
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EASY fix, moris can ONLY be used instead of third hook AND they give the same amout of BP as a normal hook.
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double posted by accident
Post edited by Oshirigami on1 -
The rarer offerings simply can't be balanced @Carlosylu
It's like having a game were normally it takes 10 seconds of shooting someone to deplete their health. But you have another gun that kills someone instantly in one hit, with 20 second cooldown. You can say "Gee, but it's half the dps", but killing someone instantly instead of over 10 seconds is completely busted DESIGN. You can't just simply increase the cooldown to 30s, or a minute, it's simply a busted design.
While your idea would make them much weaker... at that point it only really counters decisive strike, flashlights, and wiggling, which is something but still pretty lame for both survivor and killer imo.
It's best to just remove the 2 rarer ones. Only Cypress Mori is sort of fair as it's a smaller power spike and you only have to worry about it as the last survivor when you saw the killer had a hidden offering.
They could, instead of trying to balance instead of simply removing those 2 rare offerings, add another perk for the ability to Mori. Something like "Gain 1 token when you are stunned or blinded. When at 10/9/8 tokens, the next time a survivor is unhooked they are marked and can be moried, removing all tokens. Hooking another survivor removes their mark and 2 tokens." That'd somewhat counter decisive strike more as you get stunned much more often versus it, and vs SWF as they tend to use flashlights more, but survivors can still counter play it by dropping pallets for blocks instead of stuns, only using flashlights when it's REALLY important to, and makes body blocking and baiting to hook someone else more important.
"What would a Survivor version of an Ebony Mori be? Maybe complete one Generator and the Hatch exclusively opens for you and cannot be closed by the Killer? Tombstone perhaps would involve surviving a Chase for 60 seconds and the Exit Gates are automatically opened? lol I can't imagine any Killers thinking these are fair or fun"
EXACTLY. Key is not remotely equivalent, like others have said. With key, the Killer has still gotten a number of kills, most likely, and bloodpoints. As explained earlier, and should be clear to everyone as I figured it out in my first few hours, the goal of the matches aren't so much for the killer to kill everyone or for the survivors to escape, the goal is simply to "do well". Someone keying out isn't remotely close to the feeling of someone being force-rage-quitted early into the match at only 5-10k BPs or something.
It's still a good game for me as a killer when I get 25k+ bloodpoints (before bonuses), got a good number of hooks and interrupts. It's still a good game for me as survivor if we at least got one person to escape, or I also got 25k+ bloodpoints. I don't know anyone who only considers a game good if every survivor escapes, or they get 4 kills (with freaking ultra rare mori, especially. That must feel more like a loss than anything?).
A lot of high rank killers know it's broken, and only use it against SWF groups. So I don't get why BHVR thinks it's okay.
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A survivor equivalent to a Mori would be Ressurection....not a slight chance to escaping.
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yeah, and when I was new, I bought a DLC to play a like a movie serial killer, not get run around in circles like a Tom and Jerry cartoon.
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I’ll trade moris for pallets. Fair? The game is already skewed to be advantageous to survivors, and moris only slightly balance that. A rank 1 swf group can bully a rank 1 killer to death. A rank 1 killer 99 times out of 100 can’t bully a swf group even with a with an ebony
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There is no escape.
Lore wise they already "resurrect" after the trial.
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@Mr_K I am not talking about lore... I'm talking about an equivalent to the Mori mechanic.
There is none.
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I agree, they should remove ebony mori AND insta heals, the game would be more fair and balanced.
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First off, the killer role is not supposed to be equal to the survivor. Not every killer perk needs a survivor equivalent. Not every killer's power needs a counter. The survivor role is not one of a hero. It is the struggle to survive against an "unstoppable" monster.
Early versions of the game the arguable equivalent to the Mori was the BNP addon. A simple addon could do 20% of the survivor objective with a simple spacebar tap and four could be brought into a single trial. The old mori was able to do 25% of the killer's objective with the only requirement being they had to catch you first.
Old BNP and old Mori were arguably broken. I've had 0% gens completed in chase by the very survivor I was chasing. I've been Mori'd shorty after the start of a trial when one hook wasn't a requirement. Yeah it's not "fun".
But these "unfun" elements have been tone down. No longer are four survivors capable of completing 80% of their object in an instant as the killer is incapable of 25% in one chase.
When it comes down to it, the Mori is a selling feature of the game. To remove it or make it cumbersome to use will hurt the appeal and usefulness of a rare or ultra rare offering.
Is it impossible to win against an Ebony? No. Four man escapes are not uncommon even with a mori in play. As long as you and your team know how to hold M1 and not be a potato in chase, that Ebony will go to waste.
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I usually bring them just to scare people and get a little more stealthy gameplay out of them when I have a lot of them saved up. Or when I have a string of games with smack talking bully squads and then it's just there for insurance. Even without using it I've had a fair amount of people go on tirades just because I brought one.
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*slow claps*
A lot of assumptions there but I’ll give credit where it’s due.
Obviously I wasn’t asking for there to be an equivalent for survivors I was simply agreeing with OP that it is unfun in matches where the killer simply camps the hook to get that mori.
Secondly, that there is NO survivor equivalent to a Killer’s mori even tho the majority that play killer here want to believe that there is. I wasn’t saying there should be, ONLY that there currently isn’t a feature like that.
Ive won against Ebony moris before, I’m not arguing that point. However, I’m not going to sit there and lie to anyone and say that I don’t think they are crazy OP.
I play killer too and moris (IMO) are boring. They are cool the first 2-3 times they are used but after that they lose the coolness factor for me.
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Mori is a necessary counter for SWF teams that do 3 gens in less than 2 minutes.
Nurf gen times, and you can have your mori nerf. Otherwise spirIt, and nurse would be the only killers able to win against such teams.
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THIS! ALL OF THIS!
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