The more I play the more I'm starting to think...
Killers might have brought gen rush on themselves. Survivors probably got tired of being screwed by moris/campers who defended their "playstyle" as "having fun" and it being "just a game" so they decided to make those same people feel their own pain.
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That..I doubt...sincerely
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That's not the reason
It's simply because their objective is to complete gens and escape
They learned that there is no need to do other things, so they just focus on gens and do them fast
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Aww #########, here we go again
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@LCGaster @Immortalls96 I dunno, the more I get camped, or see someone camping, the more I want to ruin their fun just as they ruin others'/my fun. The more I get a match where a guy brings an ebony, the more I want to stock up on brand new parts(despite never getting any on my survivors) and gen rush the hell out of them so they don't get even one hook.
Of course, when playing killer I also get these kinds of urges, but killer stuff feels more unfair so I usually just use something that gives me a slight advantage, or a killer who doesn't have something super unfair, and I don't bring moris for sure unless I have a ritual and don't have a perk for it on the killer it's for.
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Yeah, I can understand why you might feel thst way
I personally haven't been facecamped in forever
And last time I found a killer with Mori was when Ghostface got released, so people wanted to see the new Mori
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Ok..but bringing a mori isnt bm..camping sucks I'll agree whole heartedly but survivors get the gens done because the game let's them do it that fast..perks like adrenaline also rob killers of pressure so that kinda makes it worse
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@Atrushan88 I don't think that's true. Outside of unhooking and healing, what else do Survivors have to do?
Find the totems? Ruin drops in less than a minute at high ranks. So, that takes zero time.
Search chests? Not really worth it at high ranks, they already have a ton of bloodweb items.
All they have to do is Gens, opens gates, escape. It isn't a gen-rush, it's having nothing else to bloody well do.
It's why, despite all of its myriad flaws, Friday the 13th at least handled that aspect better. Counselors had to get gas, batteries, and keys. Had to repair the cars or boats. Or had to repair the phone's power box and call the police. While managing their Fear Level so Jason had less chance to 'Sense" them.
They had different objectives to complete. And for the most part, the pieces spawned randomly.
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Or it could be because their goal is to do gens.
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You're well off, it's because healing was nerfed which make Self care a bad option, so most survivors stopped healing and became efficient and starting genrushing.
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@Immortalls96 Bringing an offering that has one purpose which is to depip everyone in the match isn't bm? Also yeah, the game does let them do it that fast, but like you said on that other thread, there are people who bring everything they can to get the gens done and get the hell out. That's what I'm talking about.
@Kilmeran Yeah, but I'm talking about the toolbox+Prove Thyself+possibly BNP gen rushers.
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I think it's a vicious cycle. It probably started with new killers not knowing how to play the game, so they camp hooks thinking that's the best way to secure a kill. Then they get gen rushed. Then, they get mad and in their next match they camp the hook to punish survivors for gen rushing... and it goes on and on.
Unfortunately, gen rushing happens not because survivors are mean, but because their objective is just to do gens and escape. Doing gens goes quickly when done efficiently. That's how the game is designed. It's the killer's job to make sure they can't do it efficiently. Whether that's fair or unfair is up for debate, but either way, a lot of killers don't know how to effectively pressure gens, which leads them to continue camping hooks in order to secure whatever kill(s) they can.
Some killers find it fun, others do it out of desperation or anger. For the killers in the latter category, it is, like I said, a vicious cycle. They didn't bring it on themselves, nor would I say it's the fault of survivors. The game is not designed in a way that is intuitive for killers.
tldr: The game is not designed in a way that is intuitive for killers.
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@Atrushan88 That's just players playing one of the troll builds. Every game has them. Hell, in Overwatch we had teams playing the troll (aka cheese) comps. You have it now thanks to RoleQ with the cheesy Bunker Comp that involves an Orisa, Rein, Bastion, Mercy, and Baptiste.
It's gamer trollimg, that's all.
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The offering is not meant to depip anyone, in fact it doesnt garuntee even a kill..all it does is make it to where losing 2 chases is lethal instead of 3..that's not bm..that's just using the offering..and it's not bm for survivors to being the fast gen stuff..bm is an attitude..now balancing on the other hand is debatable but survivors will do the objective fast regardless of what you have or what you do..its just part of the rough edges of the game
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How can gen rush be an answer to camping if three gens pop before the first hook?
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At the end of the day killers and survivors will do whatever it takes to complete their objective.
People like to use the words “And here I thought I was playing fair...” It’s a game.
Survivors aren’t meant to slow down simply because a killer needed more time. That’s why tools exit (Perks/Add ons) to slow down the match.
To your point OP. There is some truth to that. However sometimes I just want to get on a gen because no one else will... sometimes some of us have been screwed by other teammates that we already know the drill.
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@Immortalls96 In my experience all killers who bring an ebony only need to make a survivor lose ONE chase. The second one is free because they're there the moment they get unhooked. Whether the offering is MEANT to depip anyone or not, doesn't mean that it's not used that way consistently.
@Tzeentchling9 Survivors didn't always do 3 gens before one hook. They don't always now. I never said it was an answer either. I said it was possibly a reaction.
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Not always free but I suppose that's all dependent of borrowed time..but that's why it's important especially since you get a warning the killer may have a mori..to save safely or just wait and crank out gens first
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@immortalls96 I always wait until the killer leaves. Problem is with moris, they're waiting for the unhook.
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If that's the case then the best answer is to just force gens..your in no rish..them getting to struggle phase doesnt make any difference..so that's just more free gen time..and if they're pressuring the map..well then you still get to chase and have an opportunity to make it
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@Immortalls96 No it doesn't do anything, because someone is always going to go for the save, whether it's you, or someone else. The only way you could reliably do what you say is if you're in a SWF, or everyone is on the same page, which is rare.
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Mayne so..but..in time..that'll very likely get smoothed out at least to a degree..great things are in store for survivors
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@immortalls96 It won't get smoothed out against moris, unless they add actual voice chat to the game itself where everyone is literally SWF. People aren't gonna just NOT save someone. unless they're told not to.
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Nerfing Self Care = Focusing on Generators.
Be careful what you wish for.
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still a needed nerf imo.
them being healthy all game made it tremendously harder for M1 killers to win and encouraged eigther overaltruistic or toxic gameplay.
also, since chases would take twice as long and gens are still able to be completed within 4 - 5 minutes, the genrush would be similar. yeah, it would take longer, but chases would also take longer. that evens it out.
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"genrush" is not a term used against the survivors.
no one is complaining they are doing their objective, what we complain about is the time it takes for said objective to be completed, which is ridiculously short.
if you wanna focus on gens, do that. no one here will stop you. thats a playstyle, just like camping / tunneling are playstyles for killers.
its just that the devs need to rethink how this objective should work out, as it is completed just ridiculously fast, giving the killer no time to complete theirs.
ive just had a Trapper game recently where 50% of my game was in endgame, since the gens were done within 5 minutes. i still killed 3, but holy moly i had to A: work very hard for that to happen and B: had to one or twohook most players and force the healthy dude out. it ended up being a depip with no gatekeeper emblem at all and devout and malicious being silver at best, due to me onehooking 2 of them btw.
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You may be right..but then that's technically a misplay by a team mate..nothing to be done there
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@Mister_xD You say that, but I've seen a LOT of people complaining about survivors with toolboxes and BNPs on the forums, and comparing them to some extremely nasty things, like for example your camping/tunneling comparison. Although I disagree tunneling is a thing, just like I technically disagree gen rush is a thing(I mean yeah, gens get done fast, but that's what happens when you do them). Slowing the game down would possibly make killers too powerful as the game could be flipped on it's head in a matter of seconds. Especially with the way they want to make more pallets that do literally jack now.
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One of the reasons is because sabotage used to be meta which would take a decent portion of time for survivors to do, away from gens. Now that's gone, survivors can only do gens
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And this is of course why you never do this
Once people start to dehumanize the other side nothing good comes from it. Once you've dehumanized killer/survivor having sportsmanship and playing fair no longer come into play. Afterall why would you be decent to "trash"? They deserve everything they get for daring to exist and start up a video game to have fun
Whether the killer or survivor started it ultimately it simply doesn't matter. You have an awful game so you put on your best add-ons and perks and than you run into the other guy(s) who may be running some silly builds, new, or just wanting to have fun and relax. You make the game miserable for them and then they say screw it and do the same thing
And it just continues on and on and on. It's the toxic cycle of DBD and its why you don't engage in it
Being pricks to people you've never met before because they chose to play one side and nothing more is one of the dumbest things you can do
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@BlueFang If there were things to discourage/destroy the "toxic" things in DBD, then perhaps it wouldn't be something people would engage in. Camping should never have been encouraged to begin with. It's a terrible feeling to be camped in any game, and DBD is no different. It takes away what makes it fun. Moris do as well, because they encourage players to stay near the hook to get their Moris off. Also while some randomness is good, I don't feel like there should be anything that significantly tips the scales to either side. If anything, killer add ons should do stuff like what they did to Freddy, change the power to do something similar, but different, rather than make them more powerful. While some of his addons definitely make him more powerful, there's nothing like Iridescent Heads or OmegaBlink Nurse. Same goes for Survivors. BNPs probably shouldn't exist. Instaheals maybe would be alright as there are a decent amount of killers who can completely ignore them as well as perks, but I would have preferred the game to be balanced rather than volatile and literally based on whoever brings the bigger guns.
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on both sides, there are the players that just need to overdo it.
for killers that would be the ones standing next to the hook, allowing for no rescues whatsoever.
for survivors that would be the ones bringing 4 mechanics toolboxes with BNPs, prove thyself, resilience, adrenaline and an exhaustion perk. those guys get the objective done in less than 3 minutes, which is insane.
and yes, the equivalent of camping killers would be such genrushers. both only focus on doing their objective and by doing so, ruin the fun of the other side.
that said, survivors doing their objective is nothing bad. and them using the items and perks for doing it more efficiently is also nothing bad, the problem all those threats want to point out is, that the objective time is ridiculously fast and they stood no chance whatsoever against these players.
against a camping killer, you have a chance to win the game. not the one on the hook, but the 3 others do. with gens being done in 3 minutes (or even less), the killer can not do anything at all. there is counterplay to camping, there is none to genrushing.
and no, slowing the game down wouldnt make killers "too powerful" at all. if i lose 3 gens, because i placed 3 beartraps that is just ridiculous (true story - happened more than once) and needs changing. the only killers that would be able to get "too strong", since they can turn the tides rather fast in their favor, would be the top 3 killers. the other 14 (already counting the Demigorgon) need this change desperately.
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Here's your problem. You hate Toxicity and that Is something I agree with completely, as toxicity is the only thing that really hampers the game for me
But your idea of countering toxicity is simply being toxic as well. This idea is as self-defeating and pointless as survivors complaining about only fighting Nurse and Spirit but making sure they BM and absolutely crush the experience of anyone playing low tier killers when they match up with them. Or killers that absolutely punish the heck out of survivors that aren't running meta perks and than complaining that all survivors do is run them
Now isn't isn't a one shoe fits all scenario but you get the point
If your going to give up your integrity and values to punish someone who won't even be receiving the punishment. Because the chances of queueing up against him are incredibly small but it puts everyone else in the crossfire
Worst of all it simply multiples the number of toxic players in the game and completely defeats your entire purpose
If you can't handle the toxicity you have several choices take a break, de-rank, or simply learn to live with it. Honestly combing all three options is a good idea. While I fully agree that running into these matches is obnoxious and aggravating beyond belief if encountered repeatedly
These are Human Beings that are just playing a video game. It's not worth being a prick and fighting over. Honestly I feel pity for the toxic players
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Sabo was too powerful, 4 guys with boxes meant the killer couldn't do his objective anymore. It's like if the killer kicks a gen and the survivors can't work on it for 4 minutes. It's frustating
Do you not think the flashlights were being abused? Instablind was a thing.
Back in the day the survivors could run from a killer for 5 gens + gates + even more time if they wanted it.
Hell, how often do you see survivors today saying they run the killer for 5 gens?
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@BlueFang I said it makes me want to do it, not that I am. I also said that it was my guess as to WHY gen rushers are a thing. Also I've encountered it for several games in a row since it's rank reset, ya know. The fun time where you're facing the absolute worst of the worst(Well not really, the worst of the worst is brown ranks, but you know what I mean, the scummy people). If I don't play and don't rank up I'll just be stuck right there back with it even more because the lower you go, the worse your survivors are, the less humanity the killer has, etc.
I also wouldn't count BNP on a toolbox as toxic. I'd say it's more so insurance that the game won't be one of those where an ######### gets a 4k because everyone else are stumbling around trying to save a guy while the killer's camping them.
@Mister_xD If a killer was trying to hyper focus on his objective he'd be chasing all four, not standing by the hook of one guy trying to make sure one guy died. He'd be going for a 4k, not a 1k.
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I agree with this as well. I suggested once that the tutorials tell what to do to punish campers, and tips for new killers, but even that only got met with backlash because people want to preserve their "playstyle".
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that is not necessarily corrrect.
if a killer only focusses on completing their objective, they will secure the kill when they can, so they dont lose their progress again.
a killer that desperately wants their objective to get done, will not leave it to chance weather he gets a survivor or not. they will only let the hooked survivor go in exchange for a new hook - if possible they want both survivors.
the very second they leave the hook, they would allow the team to rescue the survivor and escape with him, leaving them with empty hands, which is exactly what those players wish to prevent.
when they secure a kill, they got 25% of their objective done. when they dont tunnel / camp, they might end up with everyone leaving, therefore them having hooked them all once or twice, yet still having 0% of their objective completed.
like i said, those would be the extreme cases, but they are still very much a thing.
just like survivors will ignore healing / saving just to get their gens done in less than 3 minutes. that too is an extreme case.
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Survivors spread out and do gens equally in most cases(unless Prove Thyself). This results in them doing all of their objectives and getting out. A killer doing all of his objectives would only be the same as 4 survivors doing all of theirs. Survivors are playing optimally. A camping killer isn't.
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"Gen Rushing", "Camping", "Tunneling" are all non-issues.
These are negative terms the community created for playstyles that are frustrating for the opposing faction.
The fact that there is so much debate on these subjects only supports their subjectivity.
Gen rushing is fine.
So is camping.
If you don't like it, get better at tracking or surviving. (or balance the game for swf, developers!). Either way, if you get a little bit butthurt in game, PLEASE keep coming to the forums to post your frustration; it's a VERY fun read!!!!
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Camping is not just a negative term the community created for a playstyle that is frustrating for the opposing faction. Camping is a negative/unfair strategy that has existed across almost every PVP game in existence that no one enjoys. That's why most good games generally create some form of barrier to prevent it. This is the only one I've ever played that encouraged it. There is no counter for the person being camped, and no one can prevent getting hooked 100% of the time as a survivor. The fact that there is debate is only because a bunch of people who enjoy being ######### to that one person are being encouraged by a game to do what they would do on any other game. I generally pip up as survivor, but I can't do all the gens myself. I'm obviously not rank 1 but these types of playstyles are discouraged in EVERY other game where it would normally be able to be done for a very important reason. As killer, I don't play as much right now because I'm trying to get away from these 12 year old pos on survivor so I don't have to play with them as much. Rank reset is the only reason it's taking so much longer.
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Lol the simple fact that I enjoy camping as a killer and you don't further supports the subjectivity of the term "camping".
I also don't like gen rushing, but it doesn't break ToS nor is it considered "cheating" or "unfair" by the creators and moderators of this game.
Like it or not, "camping" is a subjective term. You call it "camping". I call it "guarding the hook".
Also: the fact that you call someone an "#########" for playing the game a certain way even FURTHER supports that these are subjective terms. Camping, gen rushing and tunneling are well within the boundaries of fair play. You sound frustrated with campers. Which I will agree can be frustrating, but is very much allowed (and VERY much counterable in game).
In fairness, I am frustrated with SWF using voicecoms, which is not a parameter in which the game was designed, yet, as frustrating as it is, I deal with it. I think it needs balance but I can't complain about it. If I were a survivor, I would NEVER solo surv. It's pointless, especially at high ranks.
Just group up or get better at avoiding the hook. This game has a learning curve.
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Camping is what ANYONE normally calls it because that's what it is. The only difference is on DBD it's not punishable, and has no way to prevent it from happening. Every other PVP game I can think of that exists has some form to prevent it. League of Legends? The fountain, any shooter game? You spawn in different locations, etc etc. It's not subjective when there are so many examples of games that have changed their rules to prevent it from happening over the years to where now it's a given that there's some mechanic to prevent it. You can call it "guarding the hook", but what you're saying is that you enjoy preventing another person from playing the game once you hook them one time, ruining their experience and pushing them away from the game. That is why I call people who do it a pos. It's also not counterable in the game as you say. The best chance you have is BT, but even that can be prevented with the right killers, and if you're the one on the hook, it requires a survivor running that perk to prevent something that anyone can do without a perk. It being allowed has no bearing on the fact that it's griefing, plain and simple. You're not even really playing the game, you're just sitting there while a person can't do anything. Also, while again, I'm not rank 1, even a rank 1 survivor will go down and dies to 3 hooks. If they're camped then they only get 1 unless their killer is a potato or they have borrowed time and it's an M1 killer without instadowns. But wouldn't you say it's kind of hard to get better if the killer won't chase you and they're sitting there staring at their one trophy?
As for the learning curve comment, yeah, it does, if you're actually playing the game and not sitting at your keyboard just looking at the screen.
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none of those games are THIS game. It IS subjective because:
should killers allow free unhooks? What constitutes camping? How is it counterproductive when 75% of survivors have free reign of the map? How is it uncounterable when many survivors are able to avoid the hook completely?
Being camped might be frustrating for the camped person but it allows the other 4/5 to run the map and play as desired.
as for getting better: this game has a solid learning curve. Everyone sucks when they start. If you find yourself getting camped, it means you are getting caught. I promise that the more some one plays, the better they get. Pretty soon it will be your te am mate getting caught and camped and YOU will have free reign of the map.but
in the end, this is a pvp game. Some tapestries frustrate he oppenent but it isn't a player's job to make.the opponent happy. The objective is to win.
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You don't win by killing one survivor. You also don't get it. I'm not always the one found first, and my teammates are generally idiots who rush to save, sometimes he has insidious, etc. Just because I'm not the one caught doesn't make it any more fun. The killer won't rank up, the survivors won't rank up. It's only purpose is to frustrate everyone involved in the game outside of the killer. The killer only wins if the survivors are stupid(which in lower ranks, they are, and even in higher ones they sometimes are). It is griefing 100%. Just happens to be allowed by the devs. There is no counterplay available for the person being camped, other than "hope someone has BT, and the killer doesn't have an instadown". That's not counterplay, as the person it's happening to cannot do anything about it. The problem is the devs have an issue with introducing perks to try to band-aid fix the problem instead of tackling it head on. If someone is near the exit gate that's opened and hooked, it's a necessary evil, but otherwise you're just being a dick and trying to ruin everyone's game.
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If survivors are.rushing to save, camping makes sense because you down another one.
when doors pop, sometimes one hook is all you can get (you've been outplayed) and you guard it to fight for your 1k
I rank up if I get 1k. The ranking system is borked.
Nobody likes being hooked. It means you lost, which is frustrating. Likewise, getting looped, stunned and 0k is frustrating for killers but it's part of the game. It's called losing. Sometimes survivors lose too, by getting hooked. It's not the killers fault if you are partnered with potatoes or swf....objective is to hook.
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@Attackfrog ONE hook is not a win for the killer, and I can "win" even with being hook camped, by pipping up. If you're ranking up for 1k, then you're likely not a high rank killer. I can't rank up as killer by getting one hook even at rank 16(haven't played killer much for 2 rank resets, due to trying to get out of bad killer/survivor ranks).
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I have. And you can, especially if you max out your hits and chase because survivors rush the hook...especially if you down another one. Again, the rank system is borked.
then again, in high ranks.most survivors don't rush the hook, negating any success from camping.
but those survivors play well and.If you camp, you don't get your points because they gen rush and escape, but usually try to lo op or bait the killer from hook.
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How are you to maximize your hits if no one plays with that ######### at higher ranks? That's why I'm saying you don't win as a camper. The only way you win is by survivors letting you. You can't max your chase unless the survivor just runs you for that long, and you can't max your hits because you're only gonna get 2 hits. Camping is a bad "strategy" and a "tactic" only enjoyed by people who enjoy being ######### to other people. They are the same people who got other games to actually create barriers preventing this tactic, because they abused it to the point that everyone got sick of it. I guarantee you when Stranger Things hits, all these new players that come to play, if they play survivor, will either leave very quickly, or move to killer, making killer queues longer.
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I have to agree
Survivors literally have nothing else to do other than gens
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The current Gen rush meta is a product of killers trying to remove survivor's survival options.
All the petitioning to nerf loops, windows, vaults, palettes, Sabo, stealth, even healing have resulted in Survivors having really nothing else to fall back on or even do in the game other than doing gens.
And now they're all building to slow gens down with Thanatophobia and PGTW, are getting Surge on top of it, and they are still lobbying to get Gen times nerfed further in their favor.
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In a way you're right mate.
Remember the Ochido golden age. People were influenced to play "toxic" aka "looking for a chase".
That was a way to have fun and a lot of people were doing replica of it.
There were old DS, short healing time, and only T3 noed had indta down... killer was not a that much of a threat compared to now.
Adding the fact a lot of killers are taught to "play optimal" aka "tunnel", people just dont want to loose their time anymore and bring insta heal to have more durability. Cause a little mistake or someone out of the game early usually rhymes with a loss.
That might explain your opinion.
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