The more I play the more I'm starting to think...
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Exactly. Thats what happens when you have no clue about giving a direction to a game.
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Thanatophobia and Surge really?
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please read my comment again, i fear you didnt quite understand my argument.
i was talking about a killer securing the progress towards his objective and not about a killer playing optimally.
everyone knows that hard camping is very far from optimal gameplay.
genrushing survivors only focus on their objective and therefore make the game unfun for the killer.
hookcamping killers only focus on their objective and therefore make the game unfun for the survivors.
both are extremes that are rather uncommon, yet both exist - and are both to be placed on the same level, since both are basically doing the exact same with the same impact on the other side.
also, optimal gameplay persists of more than just pushing the objective.
optimal survivor gameplay includes being good at chases, being altruistic, being stealthy, pushing the objective and in the end escaping.
just focussing on the gen part is not optimal gameplay, its just broken game mechanics.
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I just saw this for some reason, but I don't 100% remember the argument. Read back and anyways, survivors gen rushing is not the same as a camping killer. A camping killer is preventing a person from playing the game at all. Survivors focusing on gens will still get a killer a chase, the killer can still move, he isn't locked into a corner and still has control of his actions. This is the big difference.
As for optimal gameplay for survivors, I was talking about them being spread out and each on a gen and pushing while a killer is camping instead of saving them. Then again honestly there's not enough time to do even that imo without him getting someone else.
They're also very common on PS4, at least the camping part is. Gen rushing is much more rare, but camping is definitely a common experience to see.
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welp, kinda weird you only got the notification now, but thats how it is...
however, speaking from a technical standpoint does render hookcamping and genrushing the exact same: only focussing on the objective and ingoring the other aspects of the game.
the big difference being, that gens are not actually players, they are just assets of the maps. a survivor only focussing on gens will not piss the gens off. they dont care if someone sits on them for 80 seconds straight, for 40 seconds or just no one at all. however, the killers objective are the survivors. these are players and they do not appreciate it if a killer secures their progress towards their objective, as that objective includes them not being able to play anymore.
if campers / genrushers are a common sight on PS4 is something i cant comment on tbh. since i am playingg the PC version, i can only tell you that genrushers are a very common sight here.
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Reading back you said neither were common, but yeah, this thread was pretty much over, I just wanted to make sure I replied since I didn't get the notification and was just checking through my posts and saw "new" on a few. But yeah it's pretty common. I've even seen a guy claim he got to rank 1 by camping only, which is worrying imo.
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Gen rush is just poor design by the devs... why can the survivors spawn in and immediately know how to repair generators and how can they do it with just their bare hands.
Something else is needed.... gens only is boring.
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I would agree but there are survivors out there who take the opportunity to be as toxic as possible if they happened to make it out.
Which baffles me to no end considering I could go out of my way to not tunnel not camp or do anything that's cheap and I will still getting bm'ed.
But lo and behold if I so much want to try to least secure one kill in endgame I'm a trash killer who makes the game unfun for everybody.
Granted I will still always run by the logic that it's no one's job or obligation to make the game fun for you. Whether that means it's not the survivors job to make the killer have fun or the killer to make the survivors have fun the point still stands.
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Back then you did not have to genrush to win as survivor. You could pick a flashlight, watch your mate getting chased all game long and you would just flashlight safe to reset the game. Also super altruistic plays were very common, 4 survivors running around the same loop with the killer was something I have done quite often. And all this wasn't enough to kill us, we escaped. We had no need to rush gens, we were all running selfcare to engage into the next chase.
But now, damn if your teammates aren't working on gens properly it's gg. Like, even wasting time searching ruin might make a huge difference. And the healing nerf made it even worse for killers, now barely anyone uses selfcare and all are rushing gens injured.
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That opinion is fine, but when it comes to camping a hooked survivor you are basically holding the game hostage for that one person. One could argue "It's two minutes, big deal" but in reality it's 2 minutes, plus the time it takes to get into another lobby with someone else who will possibly do the same thing. When it happens enough, you get kinda tired of it and then you get ready to make the game unfun as possible for the other guy.
While BMing at the exit gates against someone who played fair is possible, I feel like this only happens with newbie survivors. Survivors who are not new only do this against killers who play with bad sportsmanship, in my experiences. But while I agree that it's not nice to BM at the exit gates, it's a lot easier to handle as killer than it is to be put on a hook and be unable to do anything for the entirety of the match, only to most likely depip as well as get hardly any bloodpoints, making that game not only unfun, but also worthless. A killer doesn't face this, they get bloodpoints in almost every game, and can get as much as 64000 BP in one match. As a survivor averaging 20k is already pretty rough, and you have to also deal with BM.
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Only my opinion but I think this genrush and camping/tunnel thing wasnt as crazy in "old times" as it is now.
The perfect way for survivor to escape nowadays is to sweat through all the gens. And thats the smartest thing to do. They have to deal with strong addons, moris and camping/tunneling etc.
On the other hand playing killer was always the more exhausting role to play for me. The "old" survivors werent as skilled as the survivors of today. Also you have to deal with these so called meta perks and genrush, toxicity etc. I totally understand that the lower tier killers often need to camp or tunnel to either secure a kill or slow the game down.
It feels for me like the game forces you to play a specific way to have fun and not get demolished. Atm theres no solution. its like a circle of "I want to have fun too". So survivors bring their crazy stuff, then killers bring their crazy stuff, then survivors bring even more crazy stuff, and so on....
I think it is something the devs need to fix. and the solution is for sure not perfect if they even try to find one.
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