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Why are people disconnecting when playing against The Spirit?
Comments
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This is gonna be a radical nerf no one is gonna like but:
She's visible at all times when using her power. There problem solved. She still moves same speed. Her add ons still do the same thing. But now?
She now has to actually work to get her hit using her ability and not just press the button and wham you've gotten it.
It also cuts down on mindless ''I'm just gonna stand here." tactics.
And it's honestly more authentic to her Japanese Onryo roots. None of those famous Japanese ghost girls she's based on ever operated by the American standard rule of ''Ghosts are invisible."
Nah, they were always right up in your face with creepy movements and spastic twitching.
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I think that’d kill her though.
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I had one person DC on me as Legion as I downed them, the next person 1 hooked themselves, and the other two DCed. I was on the Game map, but surely Legion isn't so powerful on the Game map that people would feel their game was ruined. I actually kinda laughed my ass off.
The real nerf I think she needs is just to remove collision while in the spirit world.
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It'd not kill her. She's still have high map mobility. She'd just operate closer to a Billy chainsaw than what she does now. Billy has to WORK to get his hits against good survivors.
She'd still be strong against survivors weak at mind games and ones that just run in a straight line.
She'd not even fall from grace hard if she lost "I'm invisible now."
Take away the woosh sound on her power maybe as a bonus to her now being visible when she uses her power? Basically the invisible part of her is why her mind games are super strong and mindless.
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Every spirit at red ranks run prayer beads, consider that and ask yourself is this a fun gameplay to you.
And wasting a perk slot for a trash perk like spine chilli just to counter a particular addon on a particular killer is hillarious indeed.
Either way, even if somehow spirit manages to resist the urge to take that addon, without Iron will there's barely any chance of you getting to the 2nd pallet if spirit is anyhow decent. So yeah, i WILL dc after 6th spirit in a row. Keep playing easiest killer in the game over and over so i will vomit with it and maybe i will uninstall so -1 dc'er for you.
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Instead of making her visible at all times perhaps she could have a "tell" for when she is phasing. That way she can't stand still and "mindgame" while giving survivors more feedback which is what is complained about most (she's just standing there and I have to guess what she is doing).
Also, what has already been suggested, remove her ability to bump into survivors while phasing. This would give survivors more of a chance at getting away/losing her.
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I disagree. I think if anything it'd make her operate closer to Hillbilly's Chainsaw or Demo's Shred. It'd be powerful still, but she'd have to work for it and it's now able to be juked easier.
She'd still be insanely strong. She'd still have good map pressure. She'd just not be so mindless. You'd earn hits. Like Demo's earn shred, Billy's earn chainsaws, and Huntress earn hatchet throws.
If anything I'd make her ultimately visible at all times. But take away the woosh, so you couldn't rely on it to know that she's using her power, you'd actually have to pay attention and watch to see what she was doing.
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Devs if you read this, please don't listen to these survivor mains. They want these nerfs to bully and loop her till daylight. It's the only viable killer on PS4 at R1, so don't touch her please
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I don’t think you’ve seen a good PS4 Nurse.
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Or a good hag player.
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Signficantly don't listen to these killers mains. They want her because she's easy handholding the killer and need her to stay at rank 1.
Seriously there are so many people who are clearly not good at the game in red ranks as killer BECAUSE of Spirit and how busted she is.
It's not about looping and bullying her. It's about her being fun and having COUNTERS. If it was about ''WAAAA STRONG KILLERS." People would ask for nerfs as much for Hillbilly and Huntress as well, yet survivors tend to enjoy them.
Funny that.
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Or a good Billy or Huntress even.
Seriously. This ''Spirit is the only viable R1 killer." is not accurate at all.
I go up against far more skilled people who play Hag, Nurse, Hillbilly and Huntress than I do Spirits.
There are often times where a Spirit is clearly bad at the game and chases and you can just tell it's the killer that got them there.
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Personally, I feel like the majority of killers, excluding clown and legion are viable in the right hands.
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No i haven't, since good nurses on PS4 are rare and hag can be bullied with a decent SWF team.
I'll just give the usual advice to you: GIT GUD
And people like you is the reason why legion is the worst killer in the game
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Hag can beat swf teams if she knows what she is doing, if you think that Spirit is the only viable killer then I’d recommend you play the other killers more too. Hag is far from easily bullied.
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I believe this as well. I also believe there's far too much hand holding in the game as is with perks on both sides and the ''skill" has gone out the window.
So it's kind of funny to hear ''Git Gud" from anyone when we're all guilty of running the good ######### that's gonna change the flow of the game for us.
I actually have went up against some good Clowns though. Clown can shut down a chase in the right hands and he actually has to work to do so.
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I feel like his power is kinda underwhelming but that’s just my opinion, I am with you on running really good things, I can’t live without PGTW, I feel naked.😂
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Problem with legion is that they had no counter play (literally), instead of saying “git gud”, perhaps you’d like to explain how to “git gud”.
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Because bhvr let them, this tactic of dcing worked against legion and nurse to get them nerfed now they are applying it to spirit. And it will work again
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How exactly would removing you accidentally bumping into me while phasing and smacking me, with me being unable to backtrack on my own scratch marks to juke you make me able to bully and loop you til daylight? The mind game still exists, you just don't get to find me by literally chasing me until you can't move anymore with me only being able to move in one direction. If anything it'd be more mindgames for both sides. It also doesn't make sense thematically. You're in a different plane while phasing. You shouldn't be able to make contact with physical beings outside of the spirit realm.
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Why do Survivors DC? Two reason: they don't want to figure out counters to a strong Killer and git gud, and they want the devs to nerf that Killer.
McLean has admitted that one reason Freddy and Legion received nerfs so quickly after their respective releases were their high DC-rates. It is something they factor in and Survivors have realised that as well.
There is a pattern of them shifting the complaints from Killer to Killer, always going after the next one that they deem the current Number One:
First we had complaints about Legions, he got nerfed, the complaints switched to PTB Plague.
PTB Plague received a small, but effective enough nerf to lower her potential to counteract pallet loops, resulting in her being quite a rare sight these days. The complaints stopped and switched to Nurse.
The devs announce Nurse reworks (and from experience we can assume that if anything, those will be nerfs), the complaints switched to Spirit now.
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Thank you. Someone who gets me. I'm really looking forward to dedicated servers, so that those crybabies who DC can finally get banned
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Interestingly:
Killers complained about exhaustion perks. Guess what got nerfed? Exhaustion.
Killers complained about self care guess what got nerfed at the same time as Sloppy got buffed to high hell and back and became meta? Self Care.
Killers complained about Mettle of Man (rightfully so that was ######### trash) and it got nerfed almost instantly.
Killers complained about generator speeds and stalling almost every killer in the last few chapters has had something to do with generators and stalling and tracking their progress? Oh and lower tiers of RUIN got buffed.
Killers complained about Decisive Strike? It got changed into an anti-tunneling perk. Interestingly enough? Killers still complain and now just slug to counter it making the game yet again unfun for survivors.
Please don't start ''Survivors complain to get our side's stuff nerfed and we're so innocent and have never done such things!"
BOTH sides should have fun, and BOTH sides should be listened too.
The most atrocious things survivors ever got nerfed were old Freddy who didn't need it and Legion. Who did need a rework, but they didn't need to destroy them to the point they were unfun to play either.
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I main spirit, but when going against her as survivor I get lost sometimes; her presence just jumbles my brain because there are so many different things she can do.
I think that's it honestly. There are just too many things to predict to accurately predict her, unless the player becomes predictable. Otherwise, if she manages to maintain a random playstyle, your only hope (according to game theory) is to be completely random as well.
I think survivors who die to her a lot could live longer if they identified what predictable-survivor-behavior was, and then avoided doing that around the spirit. But, that requires creativity, and creativity is hard. So, maybe people are just lazy, and D/C, lol.
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Because most survivors don’t know how to counter her. That or they’re just petty and will DC on their first down(but that’s with any killer).
Spirit, Hag, and Nurse are the reason I run Iron Will + Urban Evasion in High Ranks. Blendette is definitely more effective against them than people think.
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Yeah they just want easy games. They only know how to loop and bully M1 killers but when it comes to versing spirit they just DC because they dont wanna use their brain
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I'm not claiming things haven't gotten nerfed because Killers complained either, but the extents of the nerfs have been quite different. Aside from Mettle of Man, no Survivor Perk that was nerfed due to popular complaints ever got gutted. Killer Perks on the other hand got trashed left and right.
Do you still see people running Unrelenting that used to be meta? No, you don't.
Do you still see people running Self-Care, Exhaustion Perks, and Decisive Strike? Absolutely, since they are still very powerful Perks.
Also, don't call the changes to Self-Care a nerf, the only aspect they nerfed was the Med-Kit efficiency, they even buffed the Healing speed from 30/40/50 % to 50 % across the board, and Sloppy Butcher actually got its percentages nerfed to a level that the time it takes Survivors to heal themselves with the Healing nerf (of just 4 seconds, btw) is the exact same as the time it took them to heal before the Healing nerf.
Exhaustion Perks got nerfed because it was too strong that they could activate twice in a chase, that was not intended.
Please keep the context in mind when you try to compare nerfs, it's far from being as simplistic as you tried to make it out to be and could come across as you being dishonest about it.
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Reads are not only based on past actions but majority on little details your opponent does to follow up a specific pattern. For example making a huge non optimal turn means he's probably going to respect the pallet. Or shack pallet, seeing the redglow just for a second means either he's moonwalking or going the other way. You can calculate the probability of one by knowing the killers past pattern but also watching the details of optimal movement.
Spirit on the side does NOT give informations unless she's stupid enough to move grass. So when she stands still at a window there could be happening anything and you wouldn't know at all what exactly because past patterns won't matter. Why not? Because a smart killer will not do the same over and over again, he will mix it up.
So for example at a window, the spirit could:
1. Vault, but waiting for that and react afterwards is not a option, to short window and no animation
2. Phase the other way around, but u can't wait or double back because u don't know and in case she vaults u run into her arms
3. Actually stand still and watching you, so she can react based on your decision and it's going to be gg against any decent spirit no matter what.
From survivors perspective it's pure luck and coin flipping. And even when you guesses "right" it's probably not going to matter because the spirit has enough tools to react based on your decision and correct her mistake midgame.
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I think this is true.
I've had some survivors shake me easily by running one direction for a moment when they think I've started phasing, and then quickly turn around to retrace their steps while walking. My dumbface phases outside the range to hear their grunts of pain, then quickly realizes there are no more tracks to follow, and no grass is moving. So, I cancel the power, and scan for them just to realize that Whispers isn't even lit up anymore.
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And you are totally not biased, Mr "RIN is my waifu" with a spirit picture? Maybe you are just so much in love with the killer that you can't see the issues anymore. Something like true love, when you wear pink-red glasses and only see the good things.
And btw, PC exists aswell. Dont think ps4 is the only Plattform which matters in the dbd environment. You should "fight" more for keyboard and mouse support instead trying to defend one single killer. Cuz then you can play more different killers which is a win-win for everyone.
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Not sure honestly.
I think you can pip against a Spirit if you really have the desire. Could be really hard tho.
Some people quit because they think the match is a waste of time (and sometimes it is).
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Because there is no punishment for DC.
Why play against harder killer when you can DC and get Wraith instead.?
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Some people would rather give up and make it harder for others than learn how to play against her
She's strong, that's a fact, but she isn't invincible
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Because it’s Spirit...what more is there to say? She isn’t exactly the most fun killer to face.
I need to farm bloodpoints into Demogorgon and I get the most bloodpoints playing Spirit. I played her like five times last night, about 4 rounds there was at least one DC. I can’t exactly blame them for disconnecting. Who really wants to face a Spirit?
There isn’t much you can do against a good Spirit. Spine Chill and Iron Will won’t save you. “I have Spine Chill so she won’t be able to sneak up on me.” Yeah but if she doesn’t have Prayer Beads she doesn’t care if you know she is phasing. She’ll just phase over to you and you’re gonna be die in like thirty seconds.
Iron Will will only get you so far. She can still hear your footsteps and if she isn’t deaf then it’s not gonna matter what you do.
I play Spirit with brown add-ons and I’ll 4K a majority of the time. I only have trouble on larger maps like Rotten Fields.
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Because she is not enjoyable to go against at all. If you go against a really good spirit, you are basically dead. Each chase lasts 20 seconds and there is not much you can do.
Hillbilly and huntress are really good killers as well but people don't whine about them as much because they have good amounts of counter play and playing those killers actually require a lot of skill.
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2 minutes ago, DCs against Legion!
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The Spirit deserves a hard nerf, this is so obvious.
P.S. The Nurse main.
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Calm down, nearly noone is playing wraith at rank 1. People just hate spirit and would rather verse Nurse and Billy. Has nothing to do with difficulties, otherwise you would see the same amount of DCs (or even more) against nurses (which is high aswell but nowhere as high as against spirits) because Nurse is stronger.
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The detail here is that she is standing still. That is all the information you need to preform the mindgame.
Any and all mindgame boil down 2 lists of actions each player could do, which each player must chose an action without knowledge of what the other player will do, and the costs and benefits of each combination of actions chosen.
All mindgames will always eventually work out to this, regardless of the mechanical information you used to narrow down the options. If you have enough information to deduce the correct answer then it's not a mindgame, and if you have enough information to deduce what option they will pick then it's not a mindgame.
It's either just strategy or a reaction.
In the case of Spirit there are a lot of situations where mindgames are required due to how her powers effect is primarily information denial. The less information people have the more mindgames are possible. More information doesn't make mindgames easier, it just reduces the number of options each side has.
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Because people have learned since legion if you DC enough they can get any killer nerfed.
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because she's a broken killer
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The Spirit does not "mindgame" - the Spirit has guessing games.
Example:
You're getting chased by a Spirit, she is now standing still while looking at you.
There are three possibilities:
- She is phase-walking towards you.
- She is phase-walking from one side or another.
- She is literally just standing still, waiting to see what you do.
(There's also a bonus possibility that she's phase-walking but leaving you entirely).
You, as the Survivor, have no way to determine which of these things is happening.
You can try to listen for footsteps, but there's chase music drowning all sounds in your ears unless you have some kind of You Have Too Much Money headset (and if you do have them, it doesn't make you a better player because without those headphones, you're in the same boat as everyone else).
Also, footstep sounds are inconsistent, not only because BHVR keeps breaking sounds every patch (I remember one patch where they somehow completely removed those for a while) but because sometimes, you just won't hear them.
This can be because of background noise (other Survivors walking around, gens chugging, whatever else) as well.
There is no "mindgame" here, just a zero-sum guessing game.
There is some measure of guesswork in every mindgame, but the Spirit is all guesswork and there is absolutely no skill involved in evading her - just luck. You have to guess right, but you have no way of knowing if you got it right. and if you get it wrong, you're dead.
Worse, it basically comes down to "do you have Iron Will?", plus an Exhaustion Perk that you can utilize before you get hit out of thin air.
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Human actions are non-random. You can determine which of those actions she is actually doing with significantly greater accuracy than random chance with accuracy going up the more she phases.
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Because you play the “guessing” game a lot with her. Which to some people it’s unfun.
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Because they suck.
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I'm really hoping the devs don't consider comments like this. She has counterplay, Iron Will or not. Stop holding W through grass.
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We defend her because we actually play her and understand what works against her. And yes, there is counterplay there that doesn't involve Iron Will. Half of my survivor games against Spirits involve them abandoning chase against me. You need to play as Spirit to understand what works against them.
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It's an issue with the players deeming something is not fun so they refuse to verse it which happens on both sides its just one side has the option to leave prior to the game starting.
Survivor's cannot tell who the killer is which thay option was removed for a good reason so they dc in the game where as killers will lobby dodge instead.
It's a sad state when people simply can't accept the game for everything it is.
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Because the spirit is not fun to play against, never have been.
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