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Keep saying this over and over... but it has to be done asap.

xEa
xEa Member Posts: 4,105
edited September 2019 in General Discussions

Rank 20-17 or anything like that should be for BEGINNERS. I introduced this game to multible friends and they are all leaving because they simply have no interest in playing against people with 1000+ hours on their rank! Getting crushed by Survivor or Killers that are clearly more experienced is no fun for new players, and i dont see how this is still a thing in DbD. Another friend just uninstalled it only because of that reason.

Please devs, if you wanna hold new players, dont let them get crushed by players that are way better then them. Better today then tomorrow.

Thank you for reading

Post edited by xEa on
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Comments

  • Horus
    Horus Member Posts: 850

    Course not cant handle this game but bought stranger things dlc alright we got your 12$ we dont care if you stay we got your money

  • sluc16
    sluc16 Member Posts: 537

    Agree, new players need to play against people with their same level of experience, or they are gonna get crushed all the time and just quit. Is not fun to play a game where you know you just gonna have a terrible time.

  • I totally agree with this. If I was a new killer, I would be disappointed if I kept getting matched with rank 2 survivors but tell your friends whats happening so they dont rage quit ir just quit because of this bug.@xEa

  • DocOctober
    DocOctober Member Posts: 2,230

    DbD has had a bad player retention rate for a very long time, that's really nothing new.

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110

    Whenever I started, rank reset put everyone back at rank 20. I started during a rank reset and of course I didn’t win very much at all but I stayed, because I knew that I’d have to get crushed to get better.

    Matchmaking bug needs fixed of course, but people who are willing to improve will stay.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    It is always frustration vs dedication. Not many are dedicated enough for getting stomped so often (and especially so brutal), that they stay. At least not how it is right now. DBD needs new players, this matchmaking does not promote that by any means.

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110

    The bug needs fixed but I don’t think a lot will leave, it is kinda expected to get stomped when starting to play an online game, at least for me.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    I like your optimism, and i hope you are right, but i doubt. If it stays that way, pretty much everyone will be gone besides some tryhards or some masochits.

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110

    De-ranking and the matchmaking bug are problems, I personally always found ways to have fun, despite getting stomped.

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110

    The matchmaking bug comes back every now and then, it has been fixed a lot but it keeps coming back.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    would be whise to anounce it to new players, that this is not the normal status of the game, so there is at least a chance they take this game serious.

  • Dragonredking
    Dragonredking Member Posts: 874

    What's the point?

    The matchmaking as been broken since day one and rank 20 can just end up being matched with red ranks anyway and whenever they manage to fix it it get broken the next patch all other again.

  • Xboned
    Xboned Member Posts: 461
    edited September 2019

    Toss me in the list of new players discouraged by this bug. I've been playing regularly for about a month and a half, I'm totally okay with losing matches, but when red ranks with epic loadouts started regularly appearing in my matches, I stopped having fun.

    I'm already kinda put off by the whole teachable perk system, tbh, but my time actually playing had been fun enough to justify it. Now... not every game is miserable, because sometimes it doesn't happen, but it's a roulette. If I get people around my rank, I have fun. If I get people 10 or more ranks away from me... not fun.

    Of course, I'm not a total noob either, I'm a green ranks kind of guy, so when I end up being forced into a match with totally fresh survivors, none of whom are under 17, that's not fun either. I either slaughter them and feel like a prick or I go easy and drag the game out for no reason but to try to compensate for BHVR's mistake.

    Either way, I have a new level of uncertainty loading into every game. Will they be way higher than me? Maybe. Lower? Maybe? Just right? Also maybe. My first minutes of every match are now spent watching each survivor like a hawk so I know the appropriate level of force to use.

    I don't understand why they release the new chapter before fixing the bug. If it were my game, I'd have pushed it back until it was fixed.

  • Kilmeran
    Kilmeran Member Posts: 3,142
    edited September 2019

    @Xboned I agree with everything you've said. As it stands, I stopped even trying to login and play right now. I downloaded the six free Batman games that Epic is currently giving away, and did what I thought I would never do for the rest of 2019: logged into Overwatch. Already played enough to get the 9 wins on both my account and my 9-year-old's account to unlock the Bastion Lego skin for both of us.

    That was about 24-26 matches for those 18 total wins. Matches that I could have been playing in DbD instead, except, well . . . Behavior.

    You are logging into the game with a sense of uncertainty, you say. Unfortunately, I have a real sense of uncertainty toward Behavior as a whole. It's why I've decided to not buy Stranger Things at this time and will not be spending on cosmetics. As it stands, I don't have faith in them enough to spend my money on them.

    I almost purchased Deathgarden: Bloodharvest a couple weeks ago. Looking at them on Steamcharts, I'm glad I refrained from doing so.

  • malloymk
    malloymk Member Posts: 1,555

    Red rank survivor who keeps getting matched with rank 20s. It's not fun for anyone unless I guess you like bullying.

  • ColonGlock
    ColonGlock Member Posts: 1,224

    Dead by Daylight takes a long time to get good at, but if you put in the hours it will always surprise you. I keep getting surprised even after 1600 hours. Each match has the potential to be nuts if all the players do their best.

    Ranks 20-15 cannot be re-entered during the season once you reach 14. This change made it a little better. There are very experienced players in these ranks sometimes if they are coming back after a long break from the game. These players will be returning during the double blood points next week.

    It is a brutal learning curve but there are many Twitch streamers showing how they kill and survive every day. That really helped me when I first started. At the end of the day it is a party game and is best enjoyed with a light heart and no expectations of victory.

  • NoShinyPony
    NoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    @Kilmeran Yes, I remember your post where you talked about your sister. It's a very good example for the current situation/problem.

    I'm sorry that I can't be optimistic in this case, but I also think that the number of players will stay at 20-25k. It would be such a shame if this great license doesn't increase the number of players permanently. Hopefully I'll get proven wrong.

  • Mochan
    Mochan Member Posts: 2,886

    It's crazy how this still hasn't been fixed.

    And it's a very simple fix. Just don't match Devotion 0 players with Devotion 1+ players. Easy! They can still SWF if they want but don't match 0's with people who have Devotion 1 or higher.

    It's too large a gap in experience.

    I been fighting a few beginner killers over the week. The worst one was so lost I could literally juke him at will. I let him tag me a few times and hook me twice before I escaped just so he wouldn't feel so bad. Was lucky my teammates unhooked me actually.

  • Kilmeran
    Kilmeran Member Posts: 3,142
    edited September 2019

    @NoShinyPony I know. Trust me, I know.

    I returned a couple weeks ago after burning out on Overwatch and not liking RoleQ being forced into the game. I was completely prepared to leave Overwatch behind and just play DbD. Hell, I'd even uninstalled Overwatch.

    Well, this weekend, I actually had decent time to play some video games for a change, which is like finding a unicorn. But guess what? Behavior didn't fix the damned matchmaker bug before they left for the weekend, so playing DbD was out of the question. So, I said "to hell with it" and reinstalled Overwatch for my PvP fix.

    I played enough matches to get the 9 wins to unlock the Bastion skin on my son's account, the 9 wins to unlock it on my account, and just completed my 9 wins for Arcade mode for the three extra lootboxes. That's 27 wins in two days, which averaged me about 35 or so matches.

    Those were matches I could have played in DbD if Behavior had just fixed the damned matchmaker. Even if it meant some extra hours for the Devs, you have a free weekend and a major sale going on for a PvP game: You fix the damned matchmaker as a number-one priority! Period.

    But they didn't. So playing those matches in Overwatch showed me that . . . you know what? . . . I actually don't mind RoleQ. And there's Quick Play Classic in the Arcade for my non-RoleQ play.

    So, allow me to thank Behavior for inspiring me to reinstall Overwatch and learn that information, all for leaving the matchmaker broken all weekend.

    Matchmaker was broken a couple weeks ago. Peanits said they made some adjustments to fix it. A major DLC launches, and they break it again and leave it broken over a free weekend?

    I guess they don't care to grow the game. Or maybe they think enough will just mindlessly stick around because of a Stranger Things DLC. Or maybe they're just banking on the Switch version money this coming week.

    So, riddle me this? Why should I continue giving my time, never mind any money, to Behavior?

  • Mochan
    Mochan Member Posts: 2,886

    Forget the last chapter. Sadly it's been three years since this issue has been happening.

  • Avocet
    Avocet Member Posts: 284

    Devotion is not the best metric to use for this either. What if you've only played survivor up to this point and you're Devotion 1+ but then you decide to try killer?

  • NoShinyPony
    NoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    @Kilmeran I wanted to play SWF about 12 hours ago. Waiting 20 minutes to get a match. We managed to play 2 matches in 60 minutes and gave up after that.

    The rank disparity aside: Everytime when there is a significanty increased amount of players, you can't play on console because queue times for both roles become insane. Happens everytime when a new DLC drops or there is a free-to-play weekend or an event, reliable as a clockwork.

    Obviously the reason must be that BHVR's servers can't handle the increased amount of inquiries. Beats me why they don't solve this problem.

  • Dreamnomad
    Dreamnomad Member Posts: 3,951

    New players on survivors will always be crushed by killers. The reason is simple. The learning curve for survivors is higher than the learning curve for killers. For example, when I first started playing the game the first killer I attempted to play as was Hillbilly. I wish I kept the video as something to laugh at now. I did everything wrong.

    I didn't use the chainsaw as a way to get around the map and couldn't land a chainsaw attack to save my life. So I just started hitting survivors with the hammer. I didn't know jack about the game. I didn't understand how I could club a player with my hammer and put them on a meat hook and see them running around and healthy again a few seconds later. I was a Hillbilly that didn't even use his chainsaw and I was still getting 3ish kills a game.

    I agree with you on a fundamental level that newbs shouldn't be going against experienced players. I don't think rank resets should ever drop players below rank 15. But even if they made those changes a lot of players will find surviving difficult at first. The game really isn't for everyone.

  • Kilmeran
    Kilmeran Member Posts: 3,142
    edited September 2019

    @NoShinyPony Well, damn, it's going to be a double-whammy on console, then. Free weekend ends sometime tomorrow, but the sale continues until Wednesday, and then Thursday starts the Bloodhunt.

    So . . . what other games do you have in your library that you and your friends can play? I'd seriously consider those for the next week or so.

    I'm on PC. I prefer Killer simply because I've tried, but I find survivor boring. I also play Solo, which makes survivor doubly boring. None of my friends or family will touch the game because of the deranking to manipulate the matchmaker on top of the idiotic grind + bloodweb RNG combination. Well, outside of the sister who tried it, but that experience has already been discussed.

    Anyway, come the Bloodhunt, I can probably forget about playing my killers, just like every other bloodhunt, unless I want to play PC Gaming Lobby Simulator.

    Kind of makes me thankful that Behavior not fixing the matchmaker before leaving for the weekend turned me back onto Overwatch. At least I'll have that to play.

    Unfortunately, that also means their lack of action this weekend and me having to go play elsewhere has likely made it so that I'll end up playing DbD less than expected moving forward, and therefore spending a hell of a lot less money on the game. Because their next big patch, the mid-chapter patch, launches the Rift and Archives into the game. And I have absolutely zero confidence the game won't be completely screwed once again the moment they send that live.

  • NoShinyPony
    NoShinyPony Member Posts: 4,570

    @Kilmeran I'll reply on your wall to not derail the thread.

  • justarandy
    justarandy Member Posts: 1,711

    He was specifically talking about people having 1k hours and being in brown ranks

  • justarandy
    justarandy Member Posts: 1,711
    edited September 2019

    I'm just saying that this is 1% cuz these ranks are locked and you can only get there by not playing for months. Uninstalling because of 1% smurfs is overreacting.

  • justarandy
    justarandy Member Posts: 1,711

    Yeah, exactly that was the point I was trying to make. This game doesn't even have a ranked based matchmaking, what would his friend do when he gets demolished 10 hours straight by more experienced players? Uninstalling aswell? Apex is just one game if many who hasn't a ranked matchmaking. That's why I said maybe he should stop playing pvp online games all together.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    We are talking more about 99% then 1%. No, i am not exaggerating. Our example played 3 days, no Killer or Survivor he could check had less then 300 hours, some had over 2000. I am his wittness, was watching him quiet a while.

  • FriendlyGuy
    FriendlyGuy Member Posts: 2,768

    It's not about smurfs, it's the matchmaking, but k then.

    Learning a game shouldn't be super frustrating in my opinion.

  • Mushwin
    Mushwin Member Posts: 4,598

    It is getting ridiculous now, and baby killers or those in the game are more likely to dc and well in a way who can blame them going against such ranks.

  • whammigobambam
    whammigobambam Member Posts: 1,201
    edited September 2019

    Do away with the current 1-20 rank and make it 1-10 also match lock 11-20 for solo Ppl who have never progressed to 10. There are some really skillful killers out there teaching these survivors how to be optimal and there are killers out there that don't try hard. It would be nice to play with like minded individuals.

    As for playing in a swf group and you just started playing the game, if there's a rank 1-10 player in the group enjoy playing in the rank 1-10 lobbies.

    Post edited by whammigobambam on
  • Bongbingbing
    Bongbingbing Member Posts: 1,423
    edited September 2019

    Separating new from experienced players in an Online PVP is extremely important.

    I wish matchmaking took hours into consideration even just a little, Maybe achievments or Kill/survival rate and not just rank because honestly the ranking system is pretty bad and there's usually big differences in skill level. There's probably not enough players for that though.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    I would rather go with some default games you have to play before you even rank. 20-30 games should be a good number.

    After that, Rank 20-16 is exclusive for new players. No possible way to derank, after you have reached 15+

  • Kilmeran
    Kilmeran Member Posts: 3,142
    edited September 2019

    @justarandy But you're wrong. DbD is supposed to have ranked as matchmaking. The Dev Team vehemently claims that the rank system is in place because it is their matchmaking algorithm.

    The fact that it fails to function even remotely as they claim is because of the asinine monthly resets and the deranking without punishment, which is precisely why new players find it not fun in the slightest, and move on.

    I will put money down that it is the primary culprit on why, after every free weekend and every MSRP sale, their steamcharts numbers plummet back down to the same old flat 20k-25k peak players again.

    So, yes, DbD is supposed to have a matchmaking algorithm via rank. But Behavior has no clue what they are doing with it, and I'm saying this as someone with over a decade in actual commercial game design.

    New Players are not going to chew glass in a game that is supposed to have matchmaking, per the Devs own words, because the Dev team is utterly incapable of actually creating a functioning matchmaker. If the new players wanted that headache, they'd probably just be playing Fortnite, Apex, Realm Royale, or the battle royale of your choice. They're trying to play DbD, where even Streamers talk about Rank being the matchmaker.

    So, they come in expecting a matchmaker as there is supposed to be, but instead find one riddled with enough design holes to fly a Death Star through.

  • Avocet
    Avocet Member Posts: 284

    I think preventing people from deranking below rank 15 won't fix anything. Even before the Stranger Things patch was released, I as a rank 20 killer was barely ever matched with any survivor below rank 15. I guess it would be a choice between getting nobody in your lobby or playing against survivors that are higher rank than you.

    All things considered, I must say I'm pleasantly surprised though. In the last couple days I haven't had matches with toxic survivors. Either the toxic players are taking a break until the matchmaking is fixed or the people do consider they might be playing against a beginner. Or I've just been extremely lucky. It's funny how the bug with the matchmaking has made the atmosphere more bearable for a beginner killer than before. I'm not usually an optimist but I think the community effort is paying off.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    It is not fixing the problem, but it is at least a start. As said, there should be a way that new players can verse other new players exclusivly. That you can not up or de-rank from 20-16ish if you have less then 50 games / 50 hours played.

  • Watery
    Watery Member Posts: 1,167

    Stuff is being done to fix it. Should be out in the next hotfix.


  • Carlosylu
    Carlosylu Member Posts: 2,948
    edited September 2019

    I actually believe it has nothing to do with experienced players in low ranks, I'm saying this cause EVERY time I get to play against a lowrank killer we get tunneled or camped, therefore, experienced killers are better for the begginer survivors first experience, but on the other side, yes, low rank killers should ALWAYS play against people of their rank colour cause we purple or red ranks live of looping and breaking killer's ankles.