I got it.. Brainstorm.. The solution to pallets and looping.
Not sure if anyone else has thought of this, posted it or discussed it. It occurred to me this evening while playing. I would love to see bamboozle reworked to include blocking pallet looping the same way they do windows. That would be fantastic.
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Two please, three is already the max usually.RemoveSWF said:Bamboozle shouldn't be needed for it because this is a problem that killers face in every single game.
It should be automatic, like how The Entity blocks windows when you try to jump through them too many times.
Three loops of the same pallet and it gets blocked. Easy fix.
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Generally if someone uses a pallet, killers break it anyway. Only time that I don't destroy a pallet is when i want to mind game or bloodlust so i actually need them to jump over it. Survivors generally don't loop around the pallets that they have already used. They loop you around the pallet that they did not use so i am not sure how we can solve this problem.
If you use pallets like there is no tomorrow, and the match gets a little bit longer, you have a very serious problem. Survivors do not have any other mechanic to waste killers' time and if they use all the pallets, you could even be a god survivor but there would be nothing to do against a killer. So they kinda actually need to loop you and use pallets efficiently as much as they can.
The game's real problem is that it is too short that the amount of pallets in any map is more than enough for survivors. This is why Nurse, hillbilly and huntress are the three killers at the top tier. They have mechanics to cross the map quickly or down survivors easily.
At this point we should not try to prevent pallet loop. Instead we should focus on how we can prolong the game a little bit longer.
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It shouldn't block the pallet, it should break it automatically.
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Agreed. If 2 kicks can destroy them, someone hard sliding over them in rapid succession should as well.Victor_hensley said:It shouldn't block the pallet, it should break it automatically.
^From a survivor “main”2 -
Window loops are there as well. Not to mention, you shouldn’t be trying to waste the Killers time in chases. You should be wasting their time by them not being able to find you in the first place. Chase’s are a Survivors fail condition, a fail at hiding.Delfador said:Generally if someone uses a pallet, killers break it anyway. Only time that I don't destroy a pallet is when i want to mind game or bloodlust so i actually need them to jump over it. Survivors generally don't loop around the pallets that they have already used. They loop you around the pallet that they did not use so i am not sure how we can solve this problem.
If you use pallets like there is no tomorrow, and the match gets a little bit longer, you have a very serious problem. Survivors do not have any other mechanic to waste killers' time and if they use all the pallets, you could even be a god survivor but there would be nothing to do against a killer. So they kinda actually need to loop you and use pallets efficiently as much as they can.
The game's real problem is that it is too short that the amount of pallets in any map is more than enough for survivors. This is why Nurse, hillbilly and huntress are the three killers at the top tier. They have mechanics to cross the map quickly or down survivors easily.
At this point we should not try to prevent pallet loop. Instead we should focus on how we can prolong the game a little bit longer.
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@SovererignKing said:
Delfador said:Generally if someone uses a pallet, killers break it anyway. Only time that I don't destroy a pallet is when i want to mind game or bloodlust so i actually need them to jump over it. Survivors generally don't loop around the pallets that they have already used. They loop you around the pallet that they did not use so i am not sure how we can solve this problem.
If you use pallets like there is no tomorrow, and the match gets a little bit longer, you have a very serious problem. Survivors do not have any other mechanic to waste killers' time and if they use all the pallets, you could even be a god survivor but there would be nothing to do against a killer. So they kinda actually need to loop you and use pallets efficiently as much as they can.
The game's real problem is that it is too short that the amount of pallets in any map is more than enough for survivors. This is why Nurse, hillbilly and huntress are the three killers at the top tier. They have mechanics to cross the map quickly or down survivors easily.
At this point we should not try to prevent pallet loop. Instead we should focus on how we can prolong the game a little bit longer.
Window loops are there as well. Not to mention, you shouldn’t be trying to waste the Killers time in chases. You should be wasting their time by them not being able to find you in the first place. Chase’s are a Survivors fail condition, a fail at hiding.
In the past yes window loops were there as well but if you are afraid of window loops you can bring bamboozle right now. You can't waste killers' time by hiding because any good killer would move on to the next generator if they could not find the person they were looking.
You can't really hide yourself very well because the objective that survivors have to do does not allow it. It is stationary. You need to sit on a generator and repair it. Yes when you hear heartbeat you try to hide but generally it is not effective against good killers because they can easily find you. Only new killers find it difficult to spot a survivor.
The game does not revolve around stealth and in the last dev stream the game designer also said that he didn't want a stealth game. He wants us to chase and be chased and most probably this is why they are buffing so many detection perks.
I don't understand why I should not waste killers' time in chases. It is the most effective way and this is why everybody complains about it. If stealth was more successful, then we wouldn't debate pallet looping right now. You can't say that the survivors can't loop because it is unfun for the killer. Just like killers can't tell survivors to not pallet loop because it is unfun, survivors also do not have any right to say that killers can not camp or tunnel because it is unfun for them. Everybody will try to do to win the game.
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What if the entity catches the survivor in a net (after successive vaults) and is unable to move for 1 min or until gens are done. The killer cannot injure the survivor whilst they are caught.1
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Agreed but the game keeps trying to give killers a way to see us and every single thing a survivor does shows aura for x number of seconds!! You cant hide anymore! Devs show what kinda game they want this to be. I agree it should be grown up hide and seek but apparently they want this game to be more like grown up tag.SovererignKing said:
Window loops are there as well. Not to mention, you shouldn’t be trying to waste the Killers time in chases. You should be wasting their time by them not being able to find you in the first place. Chase’s are a Survivors fail condition, a fail at hiding.Delfador said:Generally if someone uses a pallet, killers break it anyway. Only time that I don't destroy a pallet is when i want to mind game or bloodlust so i actually need them to jump over it. Survivors generally don't loop around the pallets that they have already used. They loop you around the pallet that they did not use so i am not sure how we can solve this problem.
If you use pallets like there is no tomorrow, and the match gets a little bit longer, you have a very serious problem. Survivors do not have any other mechanic to waste killers' time and if they use all the pallets, you could even be a god survivor but there would be nothing to do against a killer. So they kinda actually need to loop you and use pallets efficiently as much as they can.
The game's real problem is that it is too short that the amount of pallets in any map is more than enough for survivors. This is why Nurse, hillbilly and huntress are the three killers at the top tier. They have mechanics to cross the map quickly or down survivors easily.
At this point we should not try to prevent pallet loop. Instead we should focus on how we can prolong the game a little bit longer.
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I like this idea a lot. It should totally be if you hard slide it more than twice in like 5 seconds it breaks!! Awesome awesome awesome idea!! Start it tomorrow pleaseGhostEuant said:
Agreed. If 2 kicks can destroy them, someone hard sliding over them in rapid succession should as well.Victor_hensley said:It shouldn't block the pallet, it should break it automatically.
^From a survivor “main”
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That’s the esscence though, a good Killer’s ability is finding and tracking. It’s kind of the whole point of Scratch Mark’s, Moans of pain from injury, and Blood. I don’t see the point of these mechanics if finding and tracking Survivors means almost nothing. If the game keeps going all about the chase, then why keep these outdated mechanics? If they game all goes towards nothing but chases, what’s the point?Delfador said:@SovererignKing said:
Delfador said:Generally if someone uses a pallet, killers break it anyway. Only time that I don't destroy a pallet is when i want to mind game or bloodlust so i actually need them to jump over it. Survivors generally don't loop around the pallets that they have already used. They loop you around the pallet that they did not use so i am not sure how we can solve this problem.
If you use pallets like there is no tomorrow, and the match gets a little bit longer, you have a very serious problem. Survivors do not have any other mechanic to waste killers' time and if they use all the pallets, you could even be a god survivor but there would be nothing to do against a killer. So they kinda actually need to loop you and use pallets efficiently as much as they can.
The game's real problem is that it is too short that the amount of pallets in any map is more than enough for survivors. This is why Nurse, hillbilly and huntress are the three killers at the top tier. They have mechanics to cross the map quickly or down survivors easily.
At this point we should not try to prevent pallet loop. Instead we should focus on how we can prolong the game a little bit longer.
Window loops are there as well. Not to mention, you shouldn’t be trying to waste the Killers time in chases. You should be wasting their time by them not being able to find you in the first place. Chase’s are a Survivors fail condition, a fail at hiding.
In the past yes window loops were there as well but if you are afraid of window loops you can bring bamboozle right now. You can't waste killers' time by hiding because any good killer would move on to the next generator if they could not find the person they were looking.
You can't really hide yourself very well because the objective that survivors have to do does not allow it. It is stationary. You need to sit on a generator and repair it. Yes when you hear heartbeat you try to hide but generally it is not effective against good killers because they can easily find you. Only new killers find it difficult to spot a survivor.
The game does not revolve around stealth and in the last dev stream the game designer also said that he didn't want a stealth game. He wants us to chase and be chased and most probably this is why they are buffing so many detection perks.
I don't understand why I should not waste killers' time in chases. It is the most effective way and this is why everybody complains about it. If stealth was more successful, then we wouldn't debate pallet looping right now. You can't say that the survivors can't loop because it is unfun for the killer. Just like killers can't tell survivors to not pallet loop because it is unfun, survivors also do not have any right to say that killers can not camp or tunnel because it is unfun for them. Everybody will try to do to win the game.
The whole point of Gens being like that is to make it dangerous to work on them. They are designed to be a danger zone, as they are meant to put you in a dangerous position that leaves you exposed to The Killer’s sight. It’s why the game is in a poor state of balance. It’s just not nearly as dangerous to work on Gens. You don’t have to hide, the moment you are seen, you just run to a Looping spot. You don’t get found, you win. You get found, but just run to a Looping spot and waste the Killer’s time, you still win. As a Killer, you can’t find folks, you lose. You find folks easy, but they run to a Looping spot and Loop you to hell and back, you still lose.
The developers originally intended for this to be a Stealth game. Problem is, after Patch 1.4.0 that re-sized the Survivors hit boxes to be smaller (for a different reason), Looping became the meta. Simply because it was so powerful, because the game was not designed for Survivors to be able to waste so much of the Killers time so easily. Survivors got infinite’s taken away, which allowed for them the stall indefinitely, and naturally went to Looping because it achieves the same effect for the most part. It’s effective because the game wasn’t originally designed around it, just like infinite’s weren’t a design.
Yes, M.Cote said he wants chases. However those chases should last a maximum of 45 seconds. With 30 seconds being the average. Most chases with Loopers last a minimum of 45 seconds, which the game is not balanced for that.
I’m not trying to tell others how to play, I'm just saying the game isn’t balanced for it. Loop if you want. Camp and tunnel if you want. Camping and tunneling have a draw back though, Killer waste a truck load of time just killing one person. Boring gameplay, but at least it’s balanced because that means the other Survivors have free reign of the map to bang out Gens. There is absolutely no draw back to Looping. It benefits both the solo Survivor and the team. Survivors loose nothing when they Loop.Post edited by SovererignKing on1 -
Double the gen times or make Ruin permanent, take a few more pallets, and fix some of these abysmal window loops.( looking at you Ironworks )
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@Delfador said:
@SovererignKing said:
Delfador said:Generally if someone uses a pallet, killers break it anyway. Only time that I don't destroy a pallet is when i want to mind game or bloodlust so i actually need them to jump over it. Survivors generally don't loop around the pallets that they have already used. They loop you around the pallet that they did not use so i am not sure how we can solve this problem.
If you use pallets like there is no tomorrow, and the match gets a little bit longer, you have a very serious problem. Survivors do not have any other mechanic to waste killers' time and if they use all the pallets, you could even be a god survivor but there would be nothing to do against a killer. So they kinda actually need to loop you and use pallets efficiently as much as they can.
The game's real problem is that it is too short that the amount of pallets in any map is more than enough for survivors. This is why Nurse, hillbilly and huntress are the three killers at the top tier. They have mechanics to cross the map quickly or down survivors easily.
At this point we should not try to prevent pallet loop. Instead we should focus on how we can prolong the game a little bit longer.
Window loops are there as well. Not to mention, you shouldn’t be trying to waste the Killers time in chases. You should be wasting their time by them not being able to find you in the first place. Chase’s are a Survivors fail condition, a fail at hiding.
In the past yes window loops were there as well but if you are afraid of window loops you can bring bamboozle right now. You can't waste killers' time by hiding because any good killer would move on to the next generator if they could not find the person they were looking.
You can't really hide yourself very well because the objective that survivors have to do does not allow it. It is stationary. You need to sit on a generator and repair it. Yes when you hear heartbeat you try to hide but generally it is not effective against good killers because they can easily find you. Only new killers find it difficult to spot a survivor.
The game does not revolve around stealth and in the last dev stream the game designer also said that he didn't want a stealth game. He wants us to chase and be chased and most probably this is why they are buffing so many detection perks.
I don't understand why I should not waste killers' time in chases. It is the most effective way and this is why everybody complains about it. If stealth was more successful, then we wouldn't debate pallet looping right now. You can't say that the survivors can't loop because it is unfun for the killer. Just like killers can't tell survivors to not pallet loop because it is unfun, survivors also do not have any right to say that killers can not camp or tunnel because it is unfun for them. Everybody will try to do to win the game.
the issue isn't with a single pallet loop and waisting time. the issue is killers getting royally screwed over when survivors run straight to every pallet in succession. After the killer does a fantastic job of countering, dodging objects, dealig with 360's, etc. They do a great job and bam, just at the very last second the survivor makes it to the very next pallet.. It's b.s and needs to be addressed
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No.. if they remove the ability to loop a pallet then killers need there base speed adjusting to be the same as a survivors. Have you tried to escape by just running in a straight line? If so how did that go for you?RemoveSWF said:Bamboozle shouldn't be needed for it because this is a problem that killers face in every single game.
It should be automatic, like how The Entity blocks windows when you try to jump through them too many times.
Three loops of the same pallet and it gets blocked. Easy fix.
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Well then camping a survivor for too long should block the killer from hook site0
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@thomasnut said:
the issue isn't with a single pallet loop and waisting time. the issue is killers getting royally screwed over when survivors run straight to every pallet in succession. After the killer does a fantastic job of countering, dodging objects, dealig with 360's, etc. They do a great job and bam, just at the very last second the survivor makes it to the very next pallet.. It's b.s and needs to be addressed
I agree with you. I don't deny that the game is survivor sided and should be adjusted so a survivor can not loop a killer for 5 gens. What I am trying to say is that it is survivors' only weapon right now. Clearly this game isn't designed for hiding and trying to avoid the killer. When you look at map layout, it is designed for survivors to loop the killer for 5 gens. Map layout is good for looping the killer but in terms of hiding or making the killer lose your track, these maps are generally garbage. You can waste 1 minute of killer by looping the shack but if you try to lose the killer in the shack you won't be very successful i can assure you.
They need to adjust the game for what you want it to be. If there were no heartbeats and scratch marks this game could be a hide and seek type of game but at this point it is a little bit difficult to do that. The whole map layout needs to be changed.
Although I might be seen as a survivor sided person, I am with killers tbh. Right now killers think that they are really good because the rank system is just broken. There are survivors who should not be in rank 1 and these survivors make the game more difficult for good survivors. Except for nurse, If a killer comes across with a good survivor team, everything is just a pain in the ass. They need to change this not by preventing pallet loops but by prolonging the game and changing the map layouts because like you said, survivors go from one pallet to another and even if they do not loop, average match time is too short to break all of the pallets.
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I think some of these changes would break the game. Killers need some more power, I agree, but there has to be some manner in which a Survivor can escape the Killer. Between Scratches, Bloodlust, and new Aura perks, how easy are you trying to make it? Not every Survivor has memorized pallet locations or even knows which have been dropped already.
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@thomasnut said:
Not sure if anyone else has thought of this, posted it or discussed it. It occurred to me this evening while playing. I would love to see bamboozle reworked to include blocking pallet looping the same way they do windows. That would be fantastic.You cant solve an issue which occurs every game with a perk. Making perks mandatory is not a solution.
And even if its a mechanic implemented within the game itself, just look at bloodlust..... its not always the greatest solution0 -
Just fine really. All I did was run from Pallet to Pallet with a few windows here and there. Ruin gone and 3 gens done. Used about every single Pallet on the map. After that, Killer left and got two more people on Hooks before the gates were powered.Paddy4583 said:
No.. if they remove the ability to loop a pallet then killers need there base speed adjusting to be the same as a survivors. Have you tried to escape by just running in a straight line? If so how did that go for you?RemoveSWF said:Bamboozle shouldn't be needed for it because this is a problem that killers face in every single game.
It should be automatic, like how The Entity blocks windows when you try to jump through them too many times.
Three loops of the same pallet and it gets blocked. Easy fix.
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Just make killer hit boxes smaller?
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Brainstorm? More like Brainfart lmao, swing and a miss kiddo.
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Im not sure if their hitbox can be made much smaller without having having the Killer colliding and fusing with every object. Survivor hitbox may has to be increased too.Jack11803 said:Just make killer hit boxes smaller?
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That would be the simple solution, problem is the developers flat or refused to ever mess with the hitboxes again. Though, hey also said there would never be a Clown, they also said no more platform exclusives, yet PC is getting exclusive Death Garden mask...Jack11803 said:Just make killer hit boxes smaller?
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@ChesterTheMolester said:
Jack11803 said:Just make killer hit boxes smaller?
Im not sure if their hitbox can be made much smaller without having having the Killer colliding and fusing with every object. Survivor hitbox may has to be increased too.
Survivor hitboxes are already big enough as is. Any problems from this point on should be shrinking killer boxes
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