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Does Legion Require a Rework?
So far the only news we've had about Legion is that one track of their add ons is going to be looked at.
Their power, since the massive overwhelming nerfs they received, is mass of drawbacks, downsides and limitations that to me, leaves them feeling like their own power is more of a hinderance than a help.
So my question is this:
Do you feel that Legion can be "fixed" with tweaks to add ons?
Do you feel that Legion can be fixed with tweaks to add ons, as well as the removal of some of the many limits to their power? (ie, allow scratch marks during frenzy, allow frenzy to down in some capacity, allow frenzy to move at a faster speed)
Or, do you feel like Feral Frenzy is so fundamentally flawed that it cannot be tweaked to be both fun/strong for the killer player without feeling unfair for the survivors, or vice versa, and their power should be rebuilt from the ground up like Freddy's was?
Does Legion Require a Rework? 93 votes
4 votes
52 votes
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Comments
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Legion can be fixed with changes to add ons and some buffs to the base power.
This version of Legion is more healthier now that his power isn't as bullshit as it was on release. All he needs are tweaks to both his power and add-ons and he'll fine.
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Legion can be fixed with changes to add ons and some buffs to the base power.
I voted for the middle option, because as a pre patch Legion main, I don't trust addons and also the basekit is for me unacceptable. I honestly don't know for which part of the playerbase the basekit of the Legion has been designed, besides the people in the nerf threads.
Certainly not for the Legion mains.
They should buff frenzy to its old state and only redesign some addons and make them not to powerful imo.
The main reason some people have complain about the Legion are the addons of the old Legion. Even if some survivors do not have the knowledge to compare a Legion without addons to a Legion with addons, how I often got the image in nerf threads about the Legion.
TL:DR To avoid a second "Nerf Legion wave", after the Legion has finally got the necessary buffs, it is imo necessary to let the Legion only have weak addons. I prefer weak addons above a weak basekit^^.
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Legion needs a complete rework.
A lot of the concerns about old Legion were that once he saw you, you were a guaranteed down. Frenzy was easy to use to keep getting hits and was incredibly difficult to avoid. Even if it was time consuming it felt ######### as a survivor to know you were going down no matter how you played a chase.
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Legion can be fixed with changes to add ons and some buffs to the base power.
Not guaranteed, but difficult.
It is imo important to make this difference and to not exaggerate, since we live in times were bhvr just seems to throw nerfs out because they have wake up in a bad mood, or whatever.
Sry, I still can't take the Legion patch seriously. He is so far beyond everything I have seen before in multiplayer games, what buffs&nerfs matters and that say I as a guy with more as a decade on multiplayer games experience.
I could have live with nerfs. Something like frenzy 10% slower, dw 30% less damage over time, or so, but this... This is just a experience to remember, whenever the bhvr symbol comes somewhere up.
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Legion needs a complete rework.
For my opinion, even with buffs or addons changes, Legion still has a main problem that many ppl dont see, when it comes to kill survivors, you are a killer without power, just like a wraith, but atleast wraith can cloak again to gain extra speed and then blodyblock a pallet or window. Legion cant do that, so thats why Legion is the worst killer, even Leatherface can break pallets abit faster with the chainsaw xD
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Legion needs a complete rework.
I get what you mean. Aspects of the power (like pallet vaulting) are designed around chasing, but can't ACTUALLY be used in a chase because any time it gains you is lost twofold in the self stun since you can't use your power to get a down.
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Legion needs a complete rework.
Yet agree, and besides that, I was a old Legion main but now Legion is srsly the most unfun Killer in this game. There are no aspects of fun in this killer or power, it is just annoying, you are forced to take enduring to dodge the fatigue stun. The old Legion was annoying, I agree but for the Killer side, it was a new type of gameplay and fun atleast. Even if Legion was bad, I am pretty sure with some quality of life changes the old Legion would still fit into the game, and I know that many ppl dont agree with this opinion, but it is just the truth.
Besides, a survivor main that I know, even he admits that Legion was fun and it is really sad that this Killer got "deleted".
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Legion can be fixed with changes to add ons and some buffs to the base power.
I think Legion should get buffed in their mobility. They currently feel very sluggish, both when running and when vaulting, and since mobility is their trademark I would emphasize it more, especially since their power is non-lethal.
Another thing I would change is to reduce the drawbacks of their power. Again, it's a non-lethal power, unusable to down survivors. There's no reason they should deplete their power gauge when missing an attack or landing a basic attack. Just having them going through the normal cooldown for missed attacks would be enough.
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Legion needs a complete rework.
i just done see a possibility for them to buff the base power without making him the unfun killer he used to be.
thats why i think he needs a completely new power.
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Legion can be fixed with changes to add ons and some buffs to the base power.
Still it's possible
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Legion needs a complete rework.
Add-ons will not fix anything, think about those new players who bought legion without perks and add-ons, they will instantly quit playing it
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Legion needs a complete rework.
Honestly the way legion is right now is complete garbage, i think there is no other killer that just feels so unthreatening due to his power quite like him. Boring, no threat, no nothing.
I don't see how addons would be able to fix that. Imo he needs a complete rework and that has to happen till the end of the year or Q1 2020. You can not just ask money for something everybody said is not good for the game, change stuff, break it, forget about it and hope to get away with it.
The only good thing about legion are the cosmetics.
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they already reworked the legion.
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I like how there's no option to say they're fine as they are. I think they're fine. They juggle survivors, and have the ability to create a lot of pressure. Their power may not kill, but it's such a hindrance that you don't need your power to kill. Either no one heals and you're basically Tier 3 Myers without the vault speed, or they do heal and the gens never get done. Either way they have to mend if hit with your power, so gens are going slower either way. Watch True play Legion.
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Legion needs a complete rework.
I don't even think his power is even salvageable right now
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Legion needs a complete rework.
No.
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Legion needs a complete rework.
Then he is not belong to the killer category better if they just turn him to a survivor or rework it
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Legion can be fixed with changes to add ons and some buffs to the base power.
The biggest problem Legion has right now is that his power Deep Wounds is tied to Borrowed Time and they work exactly the same way, Legion's DW is actually STRONGER than BT because Legion's has a 30 second timer rather than BT's 20. If BHVR just replaced what FF actually did to Survivors then Legion would be fixed because BT is not a threat towards Survivors, it never was and it was never designed to be as it was first introduced as a Survivor Perk, that right there says this cannot be weaponized and Legion proved that by making it too powerful and needed a nerf.
Legion needs FF to do something else and then the Add-ons should reflect what that is and technically that is a buff to the base power and add-on changes.
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His power doesn't help survivors in any way however, Plague's power cannot kill if you don't cleanse, but she's basically tier 3 Myers all game. Should her power be changed as well? They're very similar aside from Legion moving faster while Plague taking a while to put you in that injured state.
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Legion can be fixed with changes to add ons and some buffs to the base power.
Well when I say beneficial I do mean that if they are already injured and you use the power they get BT and that's better than getting downed, that's as if you weren't already injured. Unlike Plague, Legion can't upgrade their power to down anyone and must hit them normally. I can see what you mean though with Plague and Legion being similar but Plague doesn't get a 4 second stun when she vomits and she can upgrade her power as well as not give Survivors any second chance such as cause Deep Wounds so Plague is much better than Legion so Legion should be buffed to match her.
So for an example of replacing DW with something else, FF can instead put them into a state similar to Madness where they can't heal, cleanse totems, or even do Gens. So for a fixed amount of time they are in a state where they can't do anything and just run around like chickens. I think Mending takes 10 seconds so this could last 10 seconds and would be so much stronger than DW because you can still do all those things while you're in the TR and a smart Survivor takes advantage of those things. Right now, once Legion hits you it's a 50/50 chance they won't keep chasing you so can just Mend right there or just do a Gen while they are chasing someone nearby and once the TR is gone you still have 30 seconds before you fall down so time is on your side.
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Legion is designed to juggle four survivors at once though. Plague can't do that as well as Legion(She still can, but not as well as Legion, because she can't keep track of all four). Of course if Legion hits people while they're already injured, he'll only give them Deep Wounds, his power isn't meant to down them, and if he COULD down them with it, he would be severely overpowered. Imagine running as fast as Wraith cloaked and still being able to down people. You hit as many as possible with DW, then on your last survivor you down them. The other four have to mend if they're out of your TR, which gives you time. If they heal, it gives you even more time. I believe the devs did as much as possible to give players a fast killer without making them overpowered, by setting limits on it's use. If they had not set limits. Legion would be more powerful than Nurse, because you wouldn't be able to get away from them.
Of course, seeing True play Legion QUITE A BIT and 4king a lot with them(even with no addons) also makes me think he's not nearly as bad as people say, and honestly even makes me think he's one of the better killers. I actually like Legion, sue me(that said I'm not a high rank killer as I've been trying to get survivor out of potato ranks and it seems like a full time job, but I feel like if I got the hang of Legion enough, I would not have any problem using them. Getting stunned out of your power at pallets with no DW on anyone sucks though. However I blame that on myself).
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Legion can be fixed with changes to add ons and some buffs to the base power.
I'm not saying make him overpowered, I'm saying the problem with Legion and why they aren't scary and why using the power is a detriment at times is why they are weak.
I'm not saying make their power down people I am saying their power should be an actual threat just as Plague's sickness is a threat. The Sickness keeps you Broken while Legion just injures you but you can still heal, if you Cleanse Plague gets an upgrade so her power is a threat whether they choose to stay Broken or not. DW is not a threat it is NOT a threat and a power should be threatening or inconvenience Survivors. I do not see Legion as a threat, when I get hit I Mend and carry on with I'm doing and quickly forget about that dude that wanted to play tag with me. When they come back and if they choose to tag me again I just get annoyed because that player thinks they're ruining my day, my day would have been ruined if they hit me normally, not force me to Mend for 10 seconds 29 seconds after he left me alone.
Impossible Skill check Doctor on the Game map has more juggle power than Legion and his power isn't even a threat.
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Legion needs a complete rework.
Buffering is base kit would be stupid because legion counters everything the surivior can do against killers. They can't hide during his frenzy, vaults and pallets are useless which is why people dc against him.
What legion deserve is a rework like Freddy because keeping the way he is now would just break the game.
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I think they need some buffs overall, and maybe some base kit tweaks. They down survivors despite their power, and they are the only killer like this.
The easiest thing for the Devs to do is to just make the button addons all apply on frenzy hit instead of second frenzy hit. That would make them viable and give more options.
I think a rework to how DW works with legion is in order, since their best addons work against that part of their kit. Maybe making Frenzy able to down people similar to how it worked before, and be able to use frenzy at the halfway mark would be nice QOL changes.
I've seen a lot of good ideas to add to legion (so they're not so one note), but I think the best one I've seen is a trap to "add" a legion member to ambush and chase down to injure a survivor one health state is the best option, as it creates the sense of more than one killer in the map, and it also works with the information style play style he has now. It can even be something that can be customized with unlocks you have.
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This in all likelihood will only ever happen once in a game. Competent survivors will know not to group together against a Legion.
One thing I'd also like you to consider is that DW will not down people most of the time, and the iri button (arguably their best addon) makes that happen way less due to the way the addon works (map wide TR). They're kit does not synergize well with itself.
Part of that though is due to True's skill, not due to base kit Legion (unlike Spirit, Nurse, or Billy). This is all due to Legion being an M1 killer for the most part... whose power is the only nonlethal power. Every other killer can use their power to down people. Legion is the only exception. They're very tricky to use overall, and it's not as easy as nurse is or Billy is... yet they're top tier.
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And yet, you still get a hit on one, and know where the others are, and are heading in the direction of another. This isn't a bad thing.
It's fine that Deep Wounds will not down survivors most of the time. It's not MEANT to. It's meant to slow them down.
I disagree that it's only True's skill, because he himself said he would rate Legion higher, and that people would be surprised by how he would rate killers if he were to make a tier list, because he rates them based on their ability to juggle multiple survivors. He says this multiple times when playing Legion. Nurse and Billy can also juggle multiple survivors, it's WHY they're top tier. Legion isn't top tier because he's not as strong as them, sure, but are you asking for Legion to be good or top tier? Because as far as I've seen from True Legion is still good, but not top tier.
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I would personally like to believe that, but being a Legion main myself, I've found the truth is often disappointing.
Sure, theoretically, they can juggle survivors with ease. Will you? Probably not. However, Legion does have an advantage over most killers with one area: Information.
Plague can infect items to keep track of survivors. Trapper can trap certain areas. Freddy can trap pallets and snares can alert him to where survivors are. However, Legion can see where other survivors are during a chase to be able to make decisions on how to act in the moment. No other killer can do that without a perk (Infectious Fright). That is Legion's strength. However, it's a very minor strength compared to others.
I would like to see them buffed to be able to take advantage of this info.
I'm not sure how many streamers understand this about Legion...
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Legion needs a complete rework.
"Juggling multiple survivors" sounds great in theory until you realise you spend more time running between survivors than they do mending.
His killer instincts are terrible at showing distance so you're as likely to run at someone who you can't physically reach as you are a nearby target.
His speed is so low that survivors even a moderate distance from him can 100% counter the power by simply running in a straight line.
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You injure multiple survivors, and down the one you can't get to/end your power on the last one after stabbing them. How is this a bad thing at all? Either they mend, then heal, mend, then get on generators with you able to one hit down them, or don't mend and bleed out. All of these situations are good for Legion.
So your killer instinct ran out as you were chasing someone who you knew EXACTLY WHERE THEY WERE. This means you now have a target to chase and down instead of looking around for that pesky P3 Claudette, AFTER already hitting another survivor, or even multiple. Again, this is not a negative point to Legion. You've taken out one health state of one to three survivors and are about to take out two of another. Any other M1 killer, or most, would have ONE injured and everyone else healthy.
His speed is not low at all when using Frenzy. He moves 1% less than Wraith speed, the absolute fastest killer in the game. When he isn't, he moves as fast as every other killer who has the max movement speed possible for normal movement. I'll use the same argument a lot of people use when they claim that if one survivor can do something, all survivors can. If one killer can make great use of Legion and 4k consistently, all killers can.
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