Thoughts About DCing Solution?
Prologue
TL;DW
He suggests we fix things that causes survivors (or killers) to DC rather than punishing DCing even more.
He also explains you can't punish people who kill themselves on the hook instead of DCing because it's a grey area for the people who have bad connection or it's a new player.
Also, try to keep everything civilized because I know this is a sensitive subject for a lot of people. :)
Comments
-
I agree completely. Even if the DC's punishment will come to DBD. people will just suicide on the hooks against the killer that doesn't like to play against or other kind of problem etc...
I don't think there are a fixes that will stop people from doing this kind of stuff. People always find a problem to just DC or suiciding on the hook.
2 -
There either needs to be an incentive for not dcing or a punishment for dcing
1 -
The problem with his suggestion is that fun is subjective and it further weaponizes DCs as a way to get "the reasons people DC" "adjusted."
Would better balance lead to less DCs? Probably, but that shouldn't be the focus. Bad behavior should be punished.
4 -
so...
how are we gonna make the guy stay in game who DCs as soon as he goes down?
or the guy who DCs when he gets a map, killer, offering or add ons he doesnt like?
i know what you want to say, but due to the, sometimes really ridiculous, reasons players DC it would be impossible to "fix" them all.
there needs to be harsher punishment, or those players will not stop and keep ruining the game for others.
2 -
I disagree about hook suiciding not being punishable. I think if it happens at a rate comparable to that of punishable levels of DCing, it can probably be noticed through reports by salty Survivors for unsportsmanlike conduct.
0 -
Well honestly at this point there should be a punishment like less XP/BPs for a few rounds like how OW does it. Or like how R6S does it where you can’t search for a game for amount of time.
There are tons of unbalanced things in the game on both sides. This game is asymmetric though, which means that one side will always be stronger than the other.
I don’t think there will be a way to possibly fix that completely however. There will always be DCing even if the most OP add ons get removed.
Examples of how DCing can still happen even with these “balanced” changes.
Everyone’s dying too fast? DC. Killers catching a survivor DC? Playing against a certain killer they don’t like besides Spirit or Nurse? DC.
Hell people even DCed against me playing TRAPPER. He is not even OP it just blew my mind man. DCing will still continue to happen if there are no real consequences. Banning them for DCing is ridiculous in my opinion but it’s how the system works right now.
0 -
There's a difference:
There are going to be people who DC just because they got outplayed.
There are going to be people who DC just because the killer is a Prayer Beads Spirit.
While I agree players should be responsible for their actions, you can't force players to play against something. If DCing gets out of hand and we Up The Ante on DC punishments, what's going to stop people suiciding on the hook?
You can't punish people who suicide on the hook because there are many variables to consider:
- Did they lag?
- Was it a new player?
I don't think it would hurt if both sides got their OP stuff taken away for the better of the game in my opinion. :)
2 -
"You can't punish people who suicide on the hook because there are many variables to consider:"
I think the only variable you need to consider is how often it happens. I can't imagine a scenario where someone frequently kills themself on hook for a reason other than wanting to ragequit without actually DCing.
0 -
What frequency do you think would be fair to everyone?
0 -
That's obvious, he paused the game and willing selected to leave despite the consequences that comes with DCing.
This would be okay to punish more.
0 -
The same as whatever is considered a non-punishable frequency of DCing?
0 -
I seen Overwatch have something very cool in their DC system that would benefit Dead by Daylight greatly.
Basically, when someone DCs within the first minute in the game or so, the game is canceled and the person who DC'd gets a heavy punishment.
If someone DCs after the first few minutes or so of the game, a minute timer will start where you aren't allowed to leave the game without punishment. The person who started the timer will get a heavy punishment.
At the end of the timer, you are allowed to leave game without a punishment but you will still suffer a de-pip.
0 -
What do you mean by ''heavy punishment''? :)
0 -
That's what I was worried about:
It's going to be very difficult to find the right frequency for everyone. :(
0 -
I disagree, punishments for quitting the game need to be harsher and any way to bypass them should be fixed so it can't be bypassed. DBD isn't supposed to be fair and both sides use annoying stuff that ruins other side's "fun". We can tone thse "unfun" things down but to quitters they'll be always OP until they are straight removed. They will be never satisfied until everything that can create diversity is removed and we are left with plain, boring, same matches every time.
People need to learn that quitting is what makes these unfun tactics, addons, offering actually unfun since when 1 person quits it's far worse then the said offerings etc altogether. If people just tried to actually face them they might discover that they can still win even if odds are against them.
Although said punishments should come with enough warnings then time outs or something and only after repeated offences of quitting something like bans. Or we can make a system where quites play only with other quitters or at least have far far higher chance to be matched together.
3 -
Alternate solution: Change how kobeing works to make it harder to deliberately die on the hook without being super blatant about your intentions.
0 -
You will receive the punishment equivalent to DCing 4 times since you ruined the game for 4 other players.
This also prevents SWF dodging once you see what killer it is because you will have to take the punishment for your 3 buddies and the killer. :D
1 -
DCing is a thing in every game whether they have a ranked and casual, or just casual, or a kind of pseudo casual with a ranked system, which DBD falls into
Competitive modes punish people for DCing on purpose, as should happen.
Casual modes do not, whether punishment happens or not is up to the game makers. Generally, casual modes do not punish genrally.
The problem with DBD is that it's an asymmetrical 1v4. That has a ranked system-ish thing going on. Which some people take very seriously, and some people do not. It's mixing the competitive players and casual players, which is kind of a problem.
Now should DBD have a dedicated ranked mode? To be honest, I got no idea. But something does need to change.
Punishing people for DCing won't really help anything. And as the guy in the video states, there are many reasons why people DC, and what if it is just a mistake. How does the automated system know?
2 -
This would definitely work to be honest! Just one thing, nothing huge!
Now, how would tell the difference between someone who wants to ruin the game and someone who is new to the game?
0 -
Allowing people to weaponize D/C's to get their way by ruining many games isint a solution. Punishments need to happen for screwing over everyone else in the game. If people have a problem with the game they can complain to the devs or stop playing, not run around ######### over everyone when they don't get their way.
2 -
The way I see it, the answer would lie in consistency.
A new player isn't going to necessarily consistently get themselves killed because they tried to jump off the hook. Someone who has a ragequitting/griefing problem, however, is far more likely to get themselves killed ASAP, whether it be to move on to the next game or to screw over their "teammates" as quickly as possible. Such a discrepancy would be made apparent either in the Survivors reporting them for griefing or even just overall stat tracking (especially when you also take player rank into account).
0 -
If you only have "fun" when things are going your way, play a singleplayer game.
Since these disconnects ruin other people's games they should be discouraged in some way.
And bringing up punishment for survivors who die on first hook is a strawman.
They would never do that as that would mean bloodpoints for the killer, and the whole idea behind disconnecting is to deny points and/or to throw a tantrum.
2 -
They should punish DCing, never said they shouldn't.
I'm just offering a different approach on the whole DCing situation, and punishing suicides is crossing a dangerous line. It's not strawman, it's an actual concern that requires a lot of tracking to do correctly or you risk punishing innocent people.
If we changed a few things for both sides, and make the environment much more friendly. Then that could help DCing, that's really all I'm saying.
0 -
Overwatch is a FPS where you can defend yourself, DBD is a game were some toxic killer can take the game hostage by facecamping and lots of lame stuff.
You cant apply the same principles, and you cant force someone to waste time if they dont feel like it.
0 -
You can definitely apply the same principals with regards to what NMCKE suggested.
0 -
Not everyone is a complusive DCíng machine, If a game goes cheap and you are going to depip anyway, make 3k points and stuff like that maybe DC is the best thing to do.
Some killers are smart, they tunnel me after the hook and I stay still if they hit me and grab me is a DC, thank god they are getting smarter and everyone plays.
0 -
Are you even thinking 2 steps ahead? You CANT punish it. As soon as harsher punishments gets implement people start suiciding on hook. Good luck trying to punish that aswell.
1 -
It wont work, this is a terribly toxic game full of frustrated tryhards that want to ruin solos in a second, specially in Red Ranks, the whole Killer Kills meme.
If Im gonna de-pip anyway I prefer to DC and I dont care about consequences, you cant force people to stay when devs dont fix the frustrating aspects of the game.
Getting tunneled 3 times in a row even with DS happens, and its stupid.
Bodyblocking the basement stairs is stupid too, and it happens.
Moris are stupid.
Some ultra rare addons are stupid and feel like the Killer bought the match a la Mayweather
Lots of nonsense when one side cant die and never runs out of nothing.
3 -
1. You cant force someone to spam spacebar. If someone wants to let go he has the full rights for that and should never get punished for that.
2. Even IF you would start punishing this aswell, people would just simply starts to run towards the killer so they can get hooked multiple times and are out of the game. Or be afk.
3 -
You not caring about the consequences of DCing does not mean that excessive DCing should not be punished. I happen to like the idea NMCKE put forth.
0 -
1) This has nothing to do with forcing someone to spam the space bar. It has to do with people forcibly one-hooking themselves to avoid DCing. Besides, I happen to be in favor of removing the need to mash a button/key during the 2nd hook stage.
2) That simply makes it easier to know who to punish and who not to punish.
0 -
Who said we need to punish suicide on hook? That is part of the game, requires the killer to take the time to go to a hook, and costs the killer that hook unless they run an incredibly obscure perk.
If suicide becomes such a problem, then it can be added to as reportable offenses under unsportsmanlike conduct, which are not automated and have investigations conducted.
Honestly though, Survivors just need to quit being such cowards about every slightest challenge. Ever match I've ever played against Prayer Beads has been at least two people escape. That's because those matches had Survivors that actually played smarter and better under such conditions. Of course the Killer is going to seem OP when half your team immediately just crybaby out without even trying.
Edit: Apparently a certain offensive term gets through the swear filter. LOL
1 -
Excessive is bad, sure and my point was when something dumb happens that wants you quit the game because its abusive and there is no way to turn it around.
Another thing that would be great to avoid these kind of situations is a player being able to block Toxic players, there are lots of those ¨streamers¨ with 40 viewers trying to ruin the game for attention, a friend told me that Overwatch lets you block players, is that true?
That would fix lots of problems in DBD, punishes a toxic player without making him de-pip or anything, since they can see who are facing they can bring the Ivory mori to kill someone because EZ.
Block toxic players should fix lots of DCs.
0 -
@Aikanaro I think the OW blocking thing just prevents you from being paired on the same team as another player, but it's also extremely limited on the amount you can do it. Basically only worth using on real trolls and throwers.
0 -
Just want to emphasize the uselesness of harsher punishments for disconnecting. It will still not solve the problem of people not wanting to play the particular game they are in. Its just a flow chart:
Disconnecting bannable -> Suicide on hook -> Suicide on hook bannable -> minimize the game until its over -> AFKing bannable -> minimize and move every minute to prevent crows.
No matter what, its the same result. The survivor doesn't play the game and the people left in the game are damaged because of it. You cannot fix that with punishments, you fix the reasons why to begin with.
3 -
They are looking to do something with the servers and hopefully it's a time out system as I've never been a fan of banning someone.
Dcing ruins the game for other people in the match and why something needs done.
Fixing the game will take a lot more time than people think. Some think a few small changes will make it better but it won't as many just won't play versus certain things if they have a choice.
Now suiciding on the hook is another problem that will arise. This may be sorted with the husk idea they are discussing so the player is still left in game.
I would say make struggling on the hook only work for half of the first stage with the same amount of tried allowed. You then hang for 30s until stage 2 then remove the button pressing for struggling as tbh it serves no purpose anymore and instead put a give up option you can use but this can only be used if you and one other are left in the game so dying to give them the hatch still works.
This won't stop it completely but it does waste time for the others and allow saves to happen and more hooks for the killer.
1 -
Overwatch, according to my research, has a feature that allows you to select up to three people and have then placed on a "Avoid as Teammate" list, preventing you from being on your team. It does NOT, however, prevent that person from showing up as part of an opposing team.
So an equivalent here would be a system that prevents you as a Survivor from being paired up with a specific player(s) on the same Survivor team, but it would not prevent you from facing that player if they were a Killer (and it wouldn't allow a Killer to avoid specific people, meaning it basically doesn't do anything for a Killer player).
0 -
They should add like a 10 player block list, and you can use it on toxic killers/surv, that will make players think twice before doing something toxic like taking the game hostage.
0 -
Disconnecting in my opinion shouldn't just bring you straight to the main menu. It should just close the game and make you load it up all over again.
0 -
And how do you determine "the reasons why people DC" with such a subjective definition?
And don't just say the "commonly agreed upon things" because there is no common ground among players in an asymmetrical game.
0 -
How do you stop people from using it on opponents who are just better than them?
0 -
There is no subjective definition. That's kinda the thing - there isn't really a solution that works. There are some unanimously agreed upon things which could help if they were fixed but a lot of it is subjective too.
2 -
That wouldn't work in an asymmetrical game like this. Some people only play killer or only play survivor and you can't have too many chains of people blocking each other or the game becomes dead.
2 -
I mean, I'm not saying I am in favor of such a system (I'm not). I am merely attempting to describe a hypothetical system comparable to what Overwatch has to offer.
0 -
This is not a competitive game, just a party game so with that in mind whats being better anyway?
A killer with ultra rare addons? I watch lots of streamers and they are playing with ultra rares which is BS they should be called Ultra Common, they camp hooks and tunnel, is that being better?
Some abusive Hillbilly with Enduring Spirit Fury and Ultra Rares? some layouts dont even have pallets, I want to see devs facing those situations and tell us in the face... THEY ARE BETTER!
Its a free world, if you dont play tournaments there is no practical reason to make people play with players they dont want to.
But hey force them and they DC.
1 -
So what happens when a consistently skilled player ends up getting blocked by a ton of people and struggles to find a match?
0 -
That is my point though, unanimously agreed upon by whom? The vocal minority? It's too subjective to determine and you can't base it on what gets the most DCs in a match either because that just weaponizes DCs like what happened with Freddy.
Again, no one is saying that better balance won't result in less DCs, it probably would, but that shouldn't be the focus of the issue.
0 -
There is no vocal minority for things like omegablink and Prayer Beads. Its a vast majority. The only people who don't think those are broken are people that use them.
2 -
If he is toxic he had it coming, skilled when you cant die? Skilled are Quake Players, nobody blocks you because you are innocent, and as I said before I you wanna tryhard this is not a competitive game, Skilled guy needs to slow down a bit.
What happens when a toxic player is ruining games and causing DCs to tons of people with those lame things I have already named?
0
