Devs, remember the exhaustion nerf outcry
Seeing all the outcries of killer mains because Nurse did get a nerf to her base power that allows survivors to have a bit more counterplay against Nurse, I just want to remind you of the survivor mains outcry when the exhaustion nerf happened. You still implemented it into the live version.
I do believe that especially within the first few days many people will say that Nurse is almost useless now and has been destroyed. Of course, seeing a more significant change to some side will always make many mains of that one side upset. Nevertheless, I hope you test Nurse long enough to see if she really was overnerfed or if she now simply is in a fair spot that gives survivors at least a chance to win against even optimal Nurses, which I personally believe is the case. People like to bring up the Freddy nerf from the ptb that was rushed and unjustified, and want to apply that same logic to Nurse. It will take a bit of time to get used to the new Nurse.
The way I see it, allowing survivors a bit more counterplay by giving them a bit more time to break LOS is not going to overnerf the most powerful killer in the game, not by a long shot. It's good to see that you do try and make the game fun for both sides, balancing the game with both killers and survivors in mind. Survivors also need to be able to enjoy the game and have a fair chance at winning matches against any killer.
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I remember telling everyone that the Exhaustion nerf wouldn't change much. It only really effected Vigil the most.
All these "don't nerf my fav killer" threads are giving me déjà vu.
Post edited by Mc_Harty on5 -
Yes exactly. And I hope the devs have learned their lesson with Freddy, seems like they did with the exhaustion at least and hopefully with Nurse as well. Of course I might be wrong, but I don't see how giving survivors a few seconds to counterplay Nurse and lose line of sight is in any way a huge problem.
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It's not.
She's still going to be strong except now she has limitations.
I'm just thankful the devs finally addressed one meta thing in this game.
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Me too. I still think Freddy is the optimal power level for killers. Approximately. Now I just think Spirit needs some tweaks to her power to allow for more skill based counterplay instead of just purely guessing where she'll reappear, and then all we need is to buff weaker killers. Spirit shouldn't receive any big nerf, but a small one wil probably be needed.
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I'm willing to see how this nurse will perform, she was without a doubt broken and allowing some counterplay is good, however, if the nurse is better, and this should apply to all killers, they should win the chase. Same goes with survivors
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There's probably 2 things I would change with Spirit's base.
- Make the phase audio louder (loud enough to not hear footsteps but still hear injured survivors)
- Give survivors a 'tell' that she is using her power (like an animation or something)
One of these would probably make her less frustrating for survivor players.
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Remember Legion...
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Of course, that's more than true and a problem most of the low tier killers have. Or rather, they can't really play better on certain maps because all they can do is run in circles.
I feel like this will be indeed the case with the new Nurse. Of course luck will always be a factor, but that's a given in a game that is about mindgames.
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I would actually prefer Spirit still being able to hear footsteps, but instead survivors could get some way to tell where Spirit is approximately when they are close enough to her. Otherwise it just turns Spirit's chase potential into more of a guessing game as well.
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Like the phase audio getting louder when she gets closer to survivors (as an example)?
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What do you mean? If you think the Legion rework is comparable to this one of Nurse, I would have to heavily disagree. Legion wasn't nearly as good as Nurse before his rework anyways, and this change just seems to bring her in line with other powerful killers that aren't op, like Freddy.
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"I just want to remind you of the survivor mains outcry when the exhaustion nerf happened."
These scenarios are not equivalent in any shape or form so you know.
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Her change destroyed her power. IF you hit a Survivor, it's at least a six second cooldown. Nurse moves at 96%. The Survivors get a massive amount of ground.
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I mean they don't hear the phase sound anyways when within the terror radius of her husk. I'd rather have survivors hear her breathing when she is within a 12 or 16 meter range or something. If that would be too much they could make her power a bit better in a different way as well.
If they would hear her phasing sound at all times, that would work as well though.
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Nah they are of course not the exact same thing. But the comparison fits in my opinion. Killer mains crying out because something of their side that was incredibly powerful got nerfed to be more balanced to play against. At least I just don't see how Nurse is in any way bad now. I believe Nurse will still be very powerful.
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But nurse had counterplay. It's just outrunning her, juking, and hiding, instead of looping. Omegablink broke that.
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After her recovery from a succesful she will have to wait approximately 3 seconds probably. I don't think that will destroy her in any way. It will just give survivors some fair counterplay to her. Survivors breaking LOS so she doesn't exactly know where you are at is the only counterplay they have, since she can ignore any defense survivors have.
If it gets too bad they can decrease her recharge time of her blinks when she gets a succesful attack because of the speed boost survivors get. That would probably be fair.
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Could be wrong but from preliminary math, it looks like Nurse will actually be stunned for long enough that Survivors will be able to run outside of her maximum blink range.
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I believe against an optimal Nurse counterplay was just way too little. Even if she missed once, the distance you could gain from her during her fatigue wasn't enough to have any kind of chance to outplay her when she got her two blinks back. Not against an optimal Nurse. The only maps she might not be fully viable on are Lery's and maybe the new Hawkin's map. But even then I still feel like the new Nurse will have a chance to win against optimal survivor teams if played optimally.
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I’m sorry, but only Survivors are crying and fail to adapt 🤷🏻♀️🤡
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I mean, whenever the Nurse, that we have now before the nerf, gets fatigued if she just misses you, you can't really get a lot of distance from her. With this change you'll at least be able to have more of a chance to break line of sight. They won't gain much more distance now with the newly nerfed Nurse either.
Of course if survivors gain too much distance from her when she hits you, they can make it so she gets some of her recharge immediately whenever she lands a succesful attack. I wouldn't mind though if Nurse needed to double blink once to catch up to a survivor she just hit before she could get another hit on that survivor. She could still be able to down survivors extremely fast.
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*cries in Legion main*
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*cries in... well you know me, you can guess. I put a topic up in Feedback I hope the Devs see*
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Yes, exactly my thought as well. That has always been the argument for when survivors have been unhappy with certain changes. And I'd argue those changes were justified as well, but I believe these nerfs are also justified. Of course we'll see once people have gotten used to the new Nurse, but I just don't see how she will be in any way underpowered after these nerfs.
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I think he was more saying that they utterly cratered Legion and left them there despite saying they would buff them back up a bit. They went OVERBOARD on Legion,
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Lol. Legion really is in a painful spot right now. I hope they will see some improvements in the future. But since it seems like Doctor isn't getting his changes in this patch, I fear it could take quite a while. Hopefully not.
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Nightmare turned out pretty neato.
I'll just wait 'n' see...
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I know. I think he is a great example of a balanced killer that isn't op. Unless maybe you use his addons and perks that all stack and decrease survivors action speed maybe.
I'm happy if Nurse is brought down to a similar level.
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Well I did have an interesting Design idea for Doctor. Make his fake Doctors follow or Lunge at survivors and make them even more paranoid.
I also started a topic in Feedback (not being that guy but yes I want it to get attention cause I am a Legion main and it's my idea for a buff/rework) that might help Legion as well.
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🤣
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Lol, get that garbage away. Since it's been some time since his rework, I almost forgot those addons even exist. I really wish they would turn those addons into something useful.
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The point of the spirit is not knowing when shes phasing
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"because something of their side that was incredibly powerful got nerfed to be more balanced to play against."
This is why I don't think it fits. This is not why they are complaining.
You're simplify their dislike for the change down to a: Me play killer, me no like killer nerfs.
That isn't what's happening.
They are complaining because they think the nerf went too far and is killing one of the few red rank viable killers we have. If you disagree that's fine, but that is why they aren't similar scenarios.
The Exhaustion nerf was pretty universally understood as a necessary change and "most" understood how completely broken it was before. That nerf was also very minor in the sense that Exhaustion perks are still crazy strong.
It's also more severe because survivors were already in a strong spot before that Exhaustion change whereas killers in "general" are not in a good place right now. It's kind of like kicking a dead horse.
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And that's why survivors are frustrated with her.
Giving some sort of 'tell' with her will lessen that.
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A lot of things in the game are frustrating, but thats not a reason to change it
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Yeah like Legion.
Oh wait.
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The current issues survivors are having with Nurse originated precisely from changes to her blinking that were intended to 'give survivors more counterplay' against her. The devs didn't understand that survivors never adapt because from very early on they almost never had to. They didn't adapt to the changes of patch 1.9.0 either and that's been their issue. They've been blaming the addons ever since, despite the consensus before universally being that they ruined muscle-memory.
The devs have utterly missed the point with these proposed(yet almost garaunteed to go live) Nurse changes, seemingly intentionally.
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If all the survivors mains that were crying because of that nerf didn't actually believe the nerf was far too much, then that doesn't make sense to me at all that they were so unhappy. Pretty sure in their opinion, the exhaustion nerf was also too much. It turned out not to be. And I believe the exact same thing will happen with Nurse. I could see them decreasing the recharge time of blinks to 2.5 seconds, I could imagine that being fine as well.
Also, it is just my opinion. I'm not saying I am 100% sure, I just really believe this nerf to Nurse is fine.
I feel like more people have started to agree that killers are now in quite a good spot, of course not the low tier ones but there are many more good killers now.
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Legion is only frustrating for the one playing them
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Why must you do this to me?
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Actually, it's in the interest of any dev team to make things as little frustrating as possible. If something frustrates a lot of people, it'd be better it got some changes. A game is about having fun in the end.
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Legion was frustrating for everyone. He got changed.
The devs will always change stuff if no one enjoys it. Like the hatch stand-off. Everyone was frustrated by it.
That's game design 101.
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"If all the survivors mains that were crying because of that nerf didn't actually believe the nerf was far too much, then that doesn't make sense to me at all that they were so unhappy."
The only unhappy ones were the ones that didn't both sides at a high enough rank to fully understand how broken it was and how little the nerf was.
"And I believe the exact same thing will happen with Nurse."
The nerf to nurse is much more extreme than what was happening to Exhaustion.
"Also, it is just my opinion. I'm not saying I am 100% sure, I just really believe this nerf to Nurse is fine."
I disagree but we will just have to see when the PTB releases to find out.
"I feel like more people have started to agree that killers are now in quite a good spot, of course not the low tier ones but there are many more good killers now."
The only people I ever see actually think killers are in a good spot right now are people who don't actually play killer at a high rank so they have no experience in what is actually going on with the games balance. When someone plays at green ranks for example of course all the killers look strong because they are all viable there. At that rank the survivors play dumb and make everything look good. At rank 1 where everyone is playing as close to optimal as we can get is where you see what works and what simply doesn't.
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Pretty much.
ps Legion is garbage and really unfun to play. Just like Nurse is going to end up.
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1 is legit her base kit and whats shes designed to do follow footsteps not just injured people who will all run IW. This will basically hurt any new Spirit players significantly.
2 she has animations for when she goes into phase that's highly noticeable when u know what your looking for.
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What animation? She doesn't have any.
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Do you mean cratered? Cause I think you mean Legion got cratered.
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I will give the new nurse a try, i really hope she's still viable. I don't want to learn spirit just because BHVR overnerfed ma gurl.
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She does actually her animation resets and her hair snaps to attention. Her glass shards shimmer a blue light as well *not sure if this bug was patched or not*. Like I said its obvious when you know what your looking for.
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I mean changed because that's what happened.
I get that you liked Legion but don't act like he was any better than what he is now.
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