Are Nurse and Spirit REALLY the only viable killers at red ranks?
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People who think only Nurse and Spirit are viable need to learn how to manage the game better as killer. It's not easy, of course, but what do you expect when you are going against the best survivors?
It's absurdly obvious that people who believe this nurse change wasn't necessary either aren't good enough to perform at the highest level, or they are, and they don't want all the easy 4ks to start going away. No other option.
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No, this is incorrect. Viability is the ability to compete against the best builds that the survivors have to offer at the high ranks. To that end unfortunately not all killers are viable, and that's the problem. Spirit is considered S rank or high rank viable because her ability allows for mindgames and pressure that most killers don't have. Whereas Clown, while being efficient at anti-looping with the proper add-on's, simply can't apply good pressure to the survivors and isn't able to keep up with or deter their objective progression.
Honestly it all comes down to the most basic premise of what makes a killer viable: Map Pressure. Those that have Movement Speed altering abilities or lacking that, have pure stealth to compensate, are far better performing than those who have neither. In the case of stealth, survivors don't know where the killer is coming from which grants the killer a pressure advantage despite moving at normal speed, whereas a killer with a Speed advantage can cover more ground and guard more gens more frequently.
When it comes to Viability the killer has to actually achieve the status of the "Power Role" over the survivors. This is a Difficult task for most killers without the aid of add-ons or perks to balance out the many mechanics survivors have that work against them. What makes Nurse and Spirit "Viable" is that they either can ignore some of those mechanics or turn them against the survivors that use them, and thus claim the "power role" from the survivors and give them a challenge.
It's ironic that survivors constantly complain about killer add-ons and abilities, and the killers hold back on them because of said complaints, but survivors never hold back on theirs. In many ways the survivors, with the right builds and add-ons, claim the "Power role" and abuse it endlessly while whining about being the victims, which IMO is pathetic. If a killer can best you while you and your team are using the the best you have to offer, that's not because the killer is OP, its because the Player out smarted you. Many survivors seem to forget that they are up against other human beings, and get enraged or salty when the lose to them, which is honestly unbecoming and embarrassingly juvenile of them.
This game is loaded with imbalances, but while survivors never change or have anything that makes them unique from one another, Killers have it in the opposite. Each killer has a unique power, and each power is gauged based how well it deals with the best the survivors have to offer. Most can do decently at the mid ranks/builds but there are only a few among them that can use their unique power to compete with the highest ranks and builds while providing them an adequate challenge.
This is what makes a killer Viable. Not the idea that they can "4k every match" as you have so stated. What makes a killer viable is simply the ability to, with their power, be able to compete at the higher ranks, despite what the survivors throw at them and give them a good challenge. Lets face it, if all survivors at red ranks had a guaranteed win every game... the game would've died out long ago. We NEED viable killers more than we need pushovers, and unfortunately, the devs seem to be keeping killer viability to a minimum in the current roster.
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If a killer can beat a survivor team using the best of the best, assuming the killer is using the best of the best, than yeah, it doesn't need to mean it's because the killer is op. But if their chances of winning in a match like this is higher than the chances of survivors winning that match, than the killer is indeed op. And that's what people believe regarding killers like Nurse and Spirit.
There are other killers considered viable by many people as well. Hag, Hillbilly, Freddy and Huntress. Yet they are obviously not as strong as Nurse or Spirit. Might just mean that those two killers are a bit op. Especially once the majority of maps are reworked and their sizes are reduced (hopefully).
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No, they’re not the only ‘viable’ red rank killers. Good killer players make everyone work at red ranks.
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Most other killers can be viable against all survivors out here. If someone says that nurse and spirit are the only viable ones, they are just wrong. They are talking like they go against super try hard 4 man swf every single match. If that was the case then yes, maybe those are the only viable ones.
You say survivors victimize themselves and I honestly laughed at that. Have you seen this forums? The "devs never care about us, we can only win with nurse and spirit" mentality is everywhere and it's just wrong. Most people on this forum just don't want any challange and want easy 4ks or escapes every match.
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I sadly disagree, Try as you might at the high ranks, Clown Simply can't compete even with his best add-ons. His overall lack of map pressure, just can't compete with a gen rush meta team no matter how swiftly you end a chase with him. This is the inherent problem with killers:
If they can't apply adequate pressure to slow down the gen progress with their abilities, they will always lose at the high ranks.
That's not to say they aren't fun to play, because at low-mid ranks they can seem very viable, but when they are put up against the best the community has to offer, they simply can't compete on the same level.
Nurse, Spirit, and Hillbilly have that competitive edge in their base kit, which is what makes the "viable" in comparison. It's not that it makes getting kills easier, its that it makes their ability to kill while applying map pressure less of a frustrating or impossible endeavor.
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There's a distinct lack of trapper on this list... me no likey.
I have a great deal of success with trapper in all ranks, I'm not on red yet but I don't see how much different it would be from rank 6.
Just go watch otzdarva if you think trapper isn't viable on all ranks.
Right?
Got a dwight like that once... played like it was his 2nd match ever, died to the pig reverse bear trap while hiding in the basement for a long time (which I saw when I was hooking someone else, but pretended I didn't see him), and he was the highest ranked player in the match.
Must have been a friend using his account...must have.
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If any thing needs to be changed its the rank system, I kill 3 people most games while hooking everyone 3 times and the last 1 2 times, I end chases quick, rekt all these useless red rank survivors but always safety pip, ######### is broken, rank needs to be removed or just go back to the old system, makes me not want to ######### play the bullshit
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When you hear people talk about that stuff, they're normally talking about going against those teams that intend to end the game as fast as possible, which leads to the "genrush" issue.... blah blah blah.... I do feel current nurse, billy and spirit are the ones that can actually hang with those groups simply because of their chase potential and map mobility, potentially a hag can be up there because she can deny loops and get around fast as well but her power is easily countered... freddy is o easily looped and when you go against a team that focuses on gens a chase needs to be a matter of seconds otherwise the first mistake could be your last....
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I'm sorry but I just don't see it. He takes soo long to set up.
As far as bad Killers go his weaknesses aren't for the normal reasons, since the actual effect of his power is excellent (unlike most Killer's who struggle because of weak powers or powers that are unlikely to work), but it just takes so long to set it up that unless you're using bags ect it's far too easy to just gen rush through a trapper.
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To put what I'm getting at in perspective: Imagine that you are the best fighter in the world, but for your final matches to determine you are the best of the best you get your mind put into the body of someone who has only one arm that hasn't had the adequate training. You are expected to use everything you know, but this newfound limitation holds you back time and time again from making the big leagues. Can you compensate and learn to use it to overcome your obstacles? Yes, but can you ever beat the top brass? No.
This is the current problem with Viability. A good Clown player can make mid rank survivors experience a living hell, but when he goes against the high ranks, despite the build and add-ons he uses, he just doesn't have what's needed to compete, and fails no matter how hard he tries. Killers like Nurse and Spirit on the other hand do have what's needed, and can compete at the high ranks on the same level with the survivors. While this makes games easier for them at low-mid level, they both require a significant amount of time to learn and understand first, which makes being able to compete at the higher ranks feel well earned.
IMO all killers should be designed with decent viability at low-mid ranks without the aid of add-on's and perks, and only become high rank viable with said perks and add-ons. If that were the case, then it would better balance the game, and make for a more enjoyable experience with the proper challenge level for the survivors. After all, this is a 4v1 game, and the 1 should require the cooperation of all 4 to beat.
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From a guy which uses pop as his only gen slowdown perk - Not really.
You don't need to put every single trap down before going after people, just 2 or 3 (depending on how many you have around) on some good positions and then you go chase people off gens while getting more traps.
Again, great success.
(But yes, playing without a bag is nowhere near as good)
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If you think that the only viable killers are spirit and nurse at red ranks then you most likely find it favorable to stack broken add ons, perks and offerings on all the other killers. If you want to pounce on players with extreme force and unrelenting maliciousness, the tools in dbd are there for you to do so.
Furthermore, I'm not sure why survivors surviving is frowned upon in this community. I honestly can't take being murdered by these broken mechanics the killers have at their disposal long enough to pay for a battle pass.
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I'm a Pig main and always do well in red ranks.
But I also play Freddy, Demogorgon, and Plague. They're also really good in red ranks.
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Except ranks don't really mean much in this game. I get the most potato teammates in rank 1. If red ranks were filled with 4 man swf's then yes, most killers aren't viable.
You can't balance this game around a small part of the playerbase. This isn't a competitive game, and will never be unless they make serious changes to the game.
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Against top-of-the-top SWF squads? Yeah, probably to some extent at least. But anyone that claims that's a majority of games are either straight up lying, utterly blinded by negativity bias or playing in a low-pop region where they fight the same small set of survivors repeatedly (or getting streamsniped hardcore I guess)
Against the actual majority of red ranks? Not at all, you can do fine with all killers most likely. Win some and lose some of course, but that should be expected.
If anything the clear and reasonably objective definitions of a win (pip and 4k) are both things that for different reasons can be difficult to achieve against high ranks at times. 4k because of hatch/EGC mechanics, pip because killer pipping in red ranks is honestly ridiculous (especially for killers that have powers that mess with the Chaser emblem like instadown killers and Trapper) with how people can play solid matches and still safety or even depip when they clearly and decisively won the match.
And I am not saying "killers just want 4K xD", I'm simply saying it's a reasonable thing to view as a complete victory. Just like a pip is the game telling you that you did what it expected of you and advanced your rank - it's objective and clear cut in theory.
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I’m not saying clown is at the same level as spirit and billy. I’m saying he doesn’t auto-lose to good survivors as the community would have everyone believe. He can shut be oppressive (not just viable, oppressive) with the right add ons and a balanced map.
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Console red rank killer. They're all viable. Some killers are obviously a bit better than others but I'm getting 4ks with all of them. Sometimes I do get rekt too. But that has more to do with the survivors I'm going against and the mistakes I'm making than the killer I'm using.
Also, I'm a good killer but nothing special. So if I can 4k with doc, wraith, trapper, plague, etc in red ranks, than so can probably anyone else.
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Yes, this game is filled with hyperbolic crybabies on both sides. I've been getting red rank for a year and been able to consistantly hit red rank with the likes of Pig, Doctor, Ghostface, Clown and Myers. The only time I have an issue is with a death squad SWF and I have to just resort to great addons. But sometimes I get those good solo queue players. You can play a fair deal of the roster and do decent in solo queue. Playing against a true Death SWF or depip squad is rare. Maybe once every ten games??? People just love to cry. They probably aren't as good as they think they are.
I don't even see Spirit and Nurse a ton on console anymore despite popular belief, atleast not for the past two months or so. I see more Plague, Freddy, and perhaps Billy when I play as survivor. (Usually rank 1 or 2.) With the occasional Ghostface or Myers. Hell, I've even done well with Leatherface and he's kinda fun. It's really not that bad as killer as most would make it sound although I do think solo queue should be buffed.
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