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Whats wrong with tunneling and camping?
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Also, real quick. Stop lumping all Killers together.
I, for one, want a good back and forth match. Not a stomp either way.
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most of the killers on these forums crying gen rush probably tunneled someone for 5 gens
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It's actually was proven a few times when Killer players come on here with screenshots lol and then someone counters with video footage that they tunneled a successful looper. I can't find the post cuz I wasn't a member, but a killer was being super fresh with video footage and it backfired.
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Both of you are super biased.
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Why you should camp in the first place?
You are not making any pip, bloodpoint or anything. Just sitting there watching a guy die and ruin your and his game
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Probably true - cause tunneling was a 'strategy', unless it fails, then it becomes gen rush.
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Neither Killers nor Survivors should be responsible for balancing the game or making it fun for others. If it's fun for you, that's the important part. Some things might seem toxic to one person but innocuous to someone else, but that's bond to happen. There are so many of us, there's no universal way to make everything fun all the time.
I have the most fun safely unhooking my teammates and healing them and I don't care if I escape, but my wife's idea of a fun game is totally opposite. I can't make her have fun playing my way or vice versa. If someone is having fun camping and tunneling, we can't control that or even appeal to it, we can only let it be and move on.
Peace out, guys, and keep having fun doing what you do. All of us are unique and deserve to enjoy ourselves and it's up to us as individuals to make it happen, each in our own way. ❤️
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I sometimes think almost all the killers on these forums have never played survivor before. I really feel like as a newbie killer is the more enticing role so you never see it from the survivors side.
When you get camped on the hook and have a 0% chance of escaping suddenly the killer has knocked you out of the game from finding you once, it's not like it's something you should get punished for because unless your a god or the killer is a potato it's unlikely you will escape them, it's more the amount of time you buy your team before you go down so how on earth would it be fair to be dead just because the killer happened to see you first.
When you get put on the hook suddenly you don't have a chance to win if the killer tunnels, not even with skill, you could be a much better player than the killer but get killed. Other survivors will end up doing gens where the game is no where near as fun because it loses the tension of oh the killer is coming. Also how the hell do you find it enjoyable to camp or tunnel? It's not fun because it removes half the challenge from the game and makes killer way to boring, killer is fun because you outplay people with chases, not because you press M1 twice after a short delay and just procede to stare at your screen whilst waiting for the survivor to die...
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I'm gonna be honest and say that I understand both sides of the argument before anyone gets salty for something I say, and I believe that we can have a discussion about this without starting yet another survivor/killer war for balance so I would appreciate if no one tried to pick a fight for this:
The thing is that killers don't really NEED to camp or tunnel, maybe in the endgame to at least secure a kill in the end and force whoever is left to escape but they can just play normally and still get 3k or if they actually try even a 4k. Honestly I feel like ######### every time I have to wait 15 plus minutes on the horrible matchmaking just to die in the first 5 minutes of the game because I was tunneled or to just not be able to do anything becaused I was camped straight off the bat. And it's not like there are not other viable strats for this type of killer (like patrolling around the hook, or checking it every few seconds) and in the case of the low rank killers they can learn and build strats so they don't have to camp like for example using BBQ with devour hope, wich gives them a reason to actually leave the hook and forget it and the survivor that was hooked (or use make your choice).
I know that the game is horribly unbalanced and sometimes the only way to deal with a really bad game is to do something that is frowned upon by more than half of the playerbase, but people just have to understand that there are better ways to play that are actually way more fun than having a staring contest to the death or actively hunt down the weakest of the bunch even though you're already chasing someone else or could chase someone else that's way closer to you.
Imo the game needs more incentive to not camp or tunnel, because there just isn't enough, and I'm not gonna bash on SWF because it just makes sense that a team that comunicates has an easier time than one that doesn't, but I will admit that SWF can be really strong against certain killers and killer types (like the ones that camp).
Btw I know that this post might have seen long winded but this is actually a really good discusion for me.
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Why do so many members of this community act like little children? Waaaaaaahhhh you didn't let me get points... Waaaaaaaahhhh you cant do that it's not fair...
Waaaaaaaaahhhh it's not fun when you play without using my made up rules...
It's the killers role to kill and the survivors role to survive. However each side plays is fair game.
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In all the time I have been playing and since I've joined the forum I've only had 3 pop up in my blood web. Maybe I'm just unlucky but I don't personally see them being anything but rare. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence of anything so my experience is easily discounted but I have yet to see anybody prove that for the majority of killers it is as common as the complaining posts on the forum would suggest.
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Question: Whats wrong with tunneling and camping?
Short answer: Camping/tunneling doesn't allow the camped/hook-tunneled person to play the game.
Full answer: Also it's the least skillful way to win as you literally only win if the other survivors don't decide or manage to rush gens quickly enough which means you basically never win by "outplaying" them but due to the fact "they let you win".
Lastly camping/hook-tunneling doesn't help you get better at the game making it a waste of everyone's time because you ruined the game for the camped/tunneled survivor(s) without increasing your odds of winning against strong survivors who will ultimately go against you and (obviously) win "EZ" due to the fact you wasted your playtime camping/tunneling survivors (often for childish reasons like breaking your hex totem) instead of practicing chasing, tracking, pressuring generators etc.
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Lets make it real simple, remove ds from the game, if a killer hooks the same survivor within 60 seconds and it is not in gates phase or later killer loses all blood points that they would have earned that game. Staying within a certain range of the hook or hooking the same survivor repeatedly is punished by losing all blood points for that match. Very few people will be willing to camp or tunnel after that. And before someone tries to say something about how I'm an entitled survivor main or some other stupid ######### like that, I am a killer main, I play primarily wraith, ghostface, and leather face. My wraith is first prestige, where as my highest lvl survivor is david at 40
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Nothing really. You can play in the whatever way you want. But there are several perks that prevent that from happening like DS, adrenaline in the endgame, BT, and the help of other survivors with instaheals and flashlights. But don't expect them to give you flowers in the chat after.
If you tunnel hard without thinking you are probably getting a "bad" match it's better to hook casually at start and select your targets in mid-game but i personally never end doing that, i enjoy hooking randomly and see the outcome at end. But that's the way I enjoy playing. You should play the game in the way you most enjoy it.
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Heck no! That is WAY too harsh if you even miscount by a SECOND!
Not only that but lose all BP if you stay around hook? So SWF or other people can just run around a hook like mad and make you lose everything UNLESS YOU LEAVE?! Or the same guy body blocks you cause he knows you can't hook him and he can just get picked up?!
You might be a Killer main (maybe), but you are SO OFF THE BALL! Do you know what balance is!? This is a terrible idea that would be abused hard!!! I don't care if you are a Killer, Survivor, or (Entity forbid) a Dev THAT IDEA IS HORRID!
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It's just kind of a douchebag thing to do. There's no rule against it, but you lose points for it. So you bully one player for having the bad luck of being seen first, and not being good enough to evade you forever. It also denies every single player in the game a lot of points. In general it's almost all down sides with very few up sides.
That being said I generally don't get really bent out of shape about it. During reset I just assume it's a bad killer who doesn't know better. At purple and red ranks I kinda just feel embarrassed for the killer for resorting to it, especially if they're playing on meta.
Live and let die, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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That sums it up pretty well. I play killer and survivor, though, I mostly play killer precisely because I know how it feels to be tunneled and camped for an entire match. That being said, while I believe tunneling and camping are competitively justifiable, especially when you start dipping into try hard ranks, it's much more difficult to defend when you have a lead. If there are 5 gens still on the map and you pursue death hook straight off hook, having the full opportunity to go after the rescuer, that's dickish and I won't hear otherwise.
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Well I think you have three types of killers who do it.
Bad/apathetic killers - they don’t know any better. They hook someone, they stay very close, they tunnel. They lose a majority of their games, don’t move up in rank much. Or, they don’t care. They’re ok with losing, they don’t mind using the weaker killers. They play killer for the control.
The “they deserved it” killers - survivors did something to anger them. Could be inconsequential to survivors, but very annoying to killers. For example, if you blind me at pallets you drop, I turn into the You Deserved It killer. Toxic plays, SWF BS, etc.
Game dictates it - survivor mains hate to see this, but there are plenty of times when the game dictates you camp or tunnel. It’s not always boring, it’s not always a bad strategy.
Survivors have a rule book that is 1,200 pages long. What they need to do is add a rule that you do gens if the killer is camping. Killers who camp constantly, see the success they see because of dumb plays by survivors.
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I just had a guy decided to tunnel me so hard despite the borrowed time and DS and multiple pallet stuns when carry me. I've never come across such hardcore tunneling. ######### loser got 1 kill and even then he almost lost me to the hatch.
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I honestly will not talk with you any further after your insults. Please be more aware of how you sound and the context of what you say.
I was not speaking of being "Body blocked" in a corner. I have had people literally run in front of me as I chased someone else, stopping my forward movement. Have you played Killer at higher ranks? It seems to be a common tactic. If everyone is running around the hook to get a save, then why would I leave? Your response shows you have not been in that position, even more so that your suggestion at the start. I have also had people with the BT buff on them do the same type of Body blocking or "moving into my way as I chase another" as the first example.
Your suggestion would be abused and make the game even more punishing to Killers and even easier for Survivors to bully Killers. I can not condone it or your tone.
Your suggestion was way too harsh, and not in mind of balance at all. I hope you have a good day, but I do not wish to speak to someone that clearly will merely resort to insults instead of talking it through.
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If you have object of obsession, or you have an unnatural hair color I will tunnel you and get you out ASAP it’s the rules.
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I HATE both camping and tunneling. It makes the game unenjoyable for the person being singled out. Having said that.... selfish survivors are to blame for both.
Toxic survivors are the ones that make these things a winning strategy for so many killers. Killers know that there is an extremely high likelihood that a toxic survivor looking for cheap bloodpoints will come unhook or attempt to unhook while they are still standing right there. Camping becomes an easy 2 for 1 for killers because there is always at least 1 toxic survivor that could care less about anyone else.
Killers also know that these same toxic survivors will follow the person being tunneled around like an ambulance chasing lawyer so they can do exactly what I referenced in the above paragraph.
If you want to see less camping and tunneling then here is the best advice you can receive. When you are playing as a survivor quit being a toxic twit that makes these things effective strategies for killers. If a killer is camping then gen rush them. Make them pay a pentalty for camping or tunneling.
Until people playing as survivors quit making these things effective strategies for killers they will continue, and the only people to blame are the survivors that are to freaking selfish to care.
Just an added little note. If you are playing with these toxic survivors DO NOT pull them off when they get hooked. Make them pay a price for being toxic.
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There are a couple problems with camping and tunneling.
The first problem is that camping and tunneling is not fun for the survivor being camped and tunneled.
The second problem with camping and tunneling is that it's the easiest and most intuitive way to play killer. (Notice I didn't say most effective or most efficient, that depends on the survivors you face as much as anything.)
When you look at those two things together, you realize there's a big problem. If one of those things is true, the other should not be, and yet we have both being true in this game. It should not be the case that the most intuitive way to play a game is to deny the other side a chance to play.
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Try tunneling in red ranks. By the time you kill that one survivor you've been chasing all game while ignoring everyone else, all the gens will be done. This is why the higher rank you go, the less tunneling and camping you see. Really good killers don't do it. tunneling is a mark of a bad killer that struggles to get out of green ranks.
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Struggle to me would imply that they are wanting or trying to rank up...
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I mean there is nothing against the rules or wrong with it. Its all in how that person plays. Yes its annoying to be the survivor who is camped and tunneled. Its more annoying when your entire team instead of punishing the killer for doing it, they follow you around or rush the hook trying to save you. Making your "sacrifice in vain". All in all its just how people are comfortable playing. Play how you like.
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People tunnel in red ranks all the time. There's a difference between throwing the entire game to kill one person and tunneling someone off hook out in the open. A good killer will tunnel when its optimal and they won't when it's not. This notion that good killers or red rank killers don't camp or tunnel is just silly. It all depends on the situation you find yourself in. It takes good awareness to know when and when not to tunnel/camp/slug and there will be situations where either of those things will be your most probable path to victory. That's not on killers, the game is simply structured in a way that allows for those things to be effective strategies at times.
Instead of getting mad at killers about it, get mad at BHVR and tell them to redesign their game.
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If it'll make it so i stop facing unnatural hair color then sure
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👏👏👏
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... this again.
Let me start of by stating I play both sides. I'll also state that I used to be a lot like some of the people in this forum - playing by imaginary rules and getting upset when people refuse to play by them.
But then - I changed. I entered a period of self-reflection. The following three things changed my outlook.
- You cannot control what others do, you can only change how you react to them"
- The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.
- Certain mechanics exist in games for the sole purpose of giving a newbie a fighting chance against a veteran. Sometimes it's something obvious, like the noob tube. Vets know better, can counter it, and often know a more effective strat that doesn't require the use of said mechanic.
These three principles is how I shape my outlook in the game.
I cannot control what tactics people use, I can only adapt how I react to them. In the case of camping, I can just not feed the camper and refuse to throw salt over it. This teaches both the newbie and the troll that the tactic will not work with me. With tunneling, I can just become a more effective at evasion or become a better teammate at helping another break a chase.
Game does not understand HOW you earn your victory, it's just numbers. For people like myself who only care about the end result and not the means - your cries of "unfairness" and "lack of fun" are meaningless because winning is the only result we care about. I don't care if you don't like to be looped. If you are triggered by T-Bags, I will continue to exploit that weakness. I generally prefer not to camp as spreading the pain builds pressure, but I'm not so stupid as to not punish hook-diving or not fall for what seems to be obvious bait. If this bothers you, that's none of my concern and shouldn't be. My only concern is my own game, not yours. Your fun in your game is your responsibility and yours alone. And those who do it to torture you are going to feed off your cries of dishonor anyway.
To a newbie who doesn't grasp the fundamentals on how to generate map pressure by keeping injured people running around, camping and tunneling can seem like the most effective way to win. And if you play into that style of play with risky saves and a refusal to DO THE FLIPPING GENS, you are not discouraging the behavior. If you refuse to risk your skin for your saves, or run perks that make discouraging this behavior easier, the problem is with YOUR refusal to either get good or run the necessary perks, not with your adversary.
Remember, this game doesn't have a casual mode - every game is ranked. Therefore, people are going to care about it even if you personally don't. Your feelings don't enter into it. The sooner you realize that and make peace with it, the better off you'll be.
Take it from me, I didn't enjoy gaming as much as I do now because I used to be just like a lot of you - wallowing in misery because people didn't play the way I wanted. When I let it go and just concentrated on my own game - every game that I played from that day forward got considerably more enjoyable.
I suggest you all do the same.
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