The problem as I see it...
... is that survivors have more ways to recover lost health than killers have to regress generators.
While killers are technically invincible, that doesn't really matter if they're impotent. The survivors' goal isn't to kill the killer, it's to escape them. In that context, generators are like a killer's health bar.
You can repeatedly down a survivor and, as long as someone picks him back up, he'll live forever. The only way to kill a survivor is to hook or mori them. Even then, it needs to be multiple hooks in succession or long individual hooks (camping, which is punished with point reduction).
There are numerous perks designed to help survivors extend their lives, whether it be through recovering health or denying a hook (DS). And of course, they can always be healed by medkits, Self Care, or other survivors.
However, there's only one perk that offers semi-reliable generator regression: Pop Goes the Weasel (requires a successful hook). The ever-popular Ruin offers some regression, but only a trickle, and it's easily made irrelevant. Generators can be kicked, but that does very little damage and the regression can be undone with a quick tap.
"Gen rushing" would be less of a concern if killers had more ways to undo gen progression. Fewer killers would feel pressured to tunnel and camp just to slow the game down if they could actually slow the game down through other means.
Comments
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Here's a video of all gens being completed in under 4 minutes. Last one pops at 3:52.
I'm not a fan of Tru3 (though he actually plays survivor here), but facts are facts.
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I think the problem is more so some killers will struggle really hard against good survivors, they always gave me a run for my money as low tier killers. For instance, legion and clown are probably not winning against really good survivors (these two really need help).
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To be honest:
This Myers played extremely bad. He has Unlimited EW3 (which is his choice, but it takes some while to get it, nothing wrong here). But, he broke EVERY PALLET he came across. The Killer is a German Streamer, I watched the VOD. And well, breaking every Pallet on new Badham Maps is something that will make you lose. All Pallets outside of the Buildings are playable, especially when you only need 1 Hit to down people and have Extra Lunge.
Of course Gens are flying when the Killer thinks he needs to break every unsafe Pallet to give the Survivor he is chasing time to get to the next Pallet.
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Okay, but the meta is a death race. How would Clown or Legion be buffed to drop people faster? And would people be okay with that?
I personally think longer games benefit everyone as it's more opportunity to play and more points per match.
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I’m not sure how legion or clown could get buffed, the devs have to be careful what they add for balance reasons.
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I agree that the killer played this poorly, but that's still 5 gens in under 4 minutes. The survivors had 4 gens done by 2:50. Even if he'd play optimally, there's not a lot he could have done.
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It seems to me that the death race meta is a problem itself. If survivors can knock out objectives this quickly with little direct counterplay, the killer has no choice but to take them out as quickly as possible.
Often that means tunneling, camping, or slugging to a 4k. Which most survivors seem to agree that they hate.
At high ranks, the meta punishes extended chases so the killers of choice become ones that end chases sooner, which in turn frustrates the survivors because they feel more powerless.
I think having the option to extend the battles over objectives would make this game better for everyone. As it is, that battle is ultimately one-sided because killers can't really engage in it directly aside from PGTW.
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It is hard to make balanced gen regression perks because spirit and nurse exist imo, it can’t be op on them but it needs to be strong on others.
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*cries in Legion Main*
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I have a 7 page thread in Feedback about Legion buffs!
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*pats back* there there, you’ll get pallet slammed soon. :)
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We need to buff lower tier killers!
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I’ve seen it before, might’ve commented on it before but I don’t remember.
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Trust me.... i get ENOUGH of those!
Ya might have. It's just becoming a catch phrase for me like "*Cries in Legion main*" and "Have fun in the Fog."
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*cries in Nea main* I’M NOT A KILLER!!! I’M THE ENTITY!!!
I’ve noticed your catchphrase too :P
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I mean, The killers would 100% know Nea is the Entity.
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The problem in that scenario would be the statistical outliers, imho. IE, Nurse and Spirit.
I know bringing them in line would make/has made people cry, but I believe people would be less reliant on those crutches if they didn't feel they were so necessary.
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All in the acting ;) they pretend to hurt me and I SMACK THEM IN THEIR KILLER FACES!!! Everybody has fun, really. ;D
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I wouldn’t necessarily call them crutches since a lot of people don’t necessarily rely on them.
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That's okay, you don't have to. I did.
I just don't think it's a coincidence that they're often cited as the killers to play if you want to compete against gen-rushing SWF teams.
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It makes sense. You have to be nearby to feed on there hope and all.
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Hi! I'm a Legion main that does well at Red Ranks.
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Hi! That's not what I'm talking about.
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If they think that only three killers can be played against gen rushing swf then yes, they crutch on them. Not everyone crutches on them though.
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Exactly :D
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I'm just saying you don't HAVE to use those 3.
Though, it does seem like alot of people think its easier. I know I have a hard time with my crippled-by-overnerfs Character!
I know that cause when i play someone like Ghost Face I feel like that guy in the kung fu movie "Taking the weighted clothes off to fight for real this one time."
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You're the one who pointed out the disparity between Nurse/Spirit and everyone else.
I'm simply saying that the inevitable uproar over them getting their wings clipped would probably be lessened if fewer people felt it was essential to play them.
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In other words!
Buff Lower Tier Killers!
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And I'm not saying anyone has to use them, either. I'm just pointing out that certain killers, Spirit in particular, get played a lot because people feel it's necessary to play them. It's pointed out on a fairly regular basis on these very forums.
Many of the QQ threads about the Nurse nerf, for example, included lines like "but who will stop the evil SWF gen rush now!?"
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Huntress, Hag, Freddy, Wraith, Pig, LF (with the right build), Myers and Doc can all deal with good swf in my experience when played optimally. Spirit and nurse were examples.
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There appears to be some confusion here.
My comment wasn't about MY perception of what killers can deal with SWF, it's about the COMMUNITY'S perception of what killers can deal with SWF. My citing other people's arguments as evidence of unhealthy bias is not the same as me claiming that bias for myself.
Sigh. Swing, miss, Frenzy canceled.
I do favor buffing certain killers, yes. I said so earlier. I also pointed out why that alone is not an adequate solution.
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If the survivors aren't brain dead camping doesn't give you 4ks
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*Legion stun noise* I'll go look. Sorry I'm still waking up!
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I listed 3 things, you refuted 1 of them.
If you'd like to make the argument that nobody slugs for 4ks at high ranks, please do.
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technically keys are a counter to slugging that's if the gens have been done enough
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I can simplify it:
I think games go too fast at high ranks. Survivors want to rush as fast as they can, killers want to kill as fast as they can. I think enabling the option to have prolonged battles over objectives would be better for the health of the game overall.
That's it.
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Ohhhh... I see what you mean now. Map reworks would help too.
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A large portion of the community perceives spirit as uncountable, which isn’t the case, just like how we have more viable killers than people think. If my opinion makes me claiming a bias then I’m biased.
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I agree with this. I have no problems with this statement at all.
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That would help a great deal, yes, as one thing that makes most lower tier killers lower tier is the lack of ability to exert enough map pressure to stop the gen rush.
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I can only FF so much! .... and get looped while doing it.... *cries more in Legion main* a 115% Killer with 3 stacks of PWYF is FASTER THAN FF!!!
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