New DS Change Idea
There has been a lot of talk about the perk Decisive Strike. Many, including myself, knew how broken Old DS used to be and the unfair advantages it gave to survivors. It gave the survivor a second chance and the only counterplay to it were dribbling or slugging the obsession. Not that much counterplay. With the new DS, it became a healthier perk to the game and a "supposed" counter to tunneling. However as time passed, people were able to find new ways to use DS against the killer, returning to the same problem Old DS had, only this time the invulnerability was limited to 60 seconds per hook. With this new change I believe we can solve the many issues this perk has while still holding the main function of the perk. This is my suggestion.
Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.
After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for 20/25/30 seconds. The timer will pause while in the Killer's Terror Radius. The timer will pause when you're within 20 meters from the Killer. Timer unpauses when in dying state.
While Decisive Strike is active, when grabbed by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check
to automatically escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 5 seconds.
- Succeeding or failing the Skill Check will disable Decisive Strike.
- Successfully stunning the Killer will result in you becoming the Obsession.
Increases your chances of being the Obsession.
The Killer can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
So what changes is that the perk has a lower timer, but the timer pauses while you're in the killer's terror radius. I got inspiration from what Second Wind was going to be until the new change it received in the PTB. So a reverse Second Wind v1. So essentially the change made to DS is a lower timer in exchange for the timer to pause while you're near the Killer. The inspiration to make this change was from the secondary effect Mettle Of Man has when you get healed and run a certain distance from the killer.
This new perk change will still allow you to counter tunneling while allowing for more counterplay by the killer. The Killer can leave the survivor after they get unhooked and get less chance to pick them up by accident even though they weren't tunneling and stop survivors from being too cheeky in front of the Killer. This change also allows for the survivor to run away to safety and if by chance the killer decides to chase the unhooked survivor, they face the situation where they can chase the survivor for 5 minutes and still get hit by the DS. Now for some issues this could bring.
This change could have a lot of unwanted effects with killers with no TR. But we already have that situation with borrowed time's deep wound timer and the Pig's masks. Plus they waste time because you still have 30 seconds where you can't be hooked. Another problem this could bring are killers with huge TR (like Doc) where the survivor could stay inside the TR and never have the timer tick down. But again you could just find and slug the survivor and wait the 30 seconds. These are the only situations I can think of but if you guys can find any problems or tips on how to make this perk work better I would be please to hear! As of right now, the only issue I could see with this change is situations where the unhooked survivor runs away and just as the timer is about to expire, they go back to a chase with the Killer and surprise the Killer with a DS. Kinda like the strategy people use with sprint burst. But if this were to occur, the Killer could easily slug the survivor for an extra five seconds and then pick the survivor back up. The Killer can easily notice if the the survivor that got unhooked came back 20 seconds after they were saved and you could just ignore them because again -> If they're not on a gen, they're not worth your... tem?
TL;DR: Reduce the timer DS has but make the timer pause while in the Killer's TR you're within 20 meters from the Killer and unpause when you’re down. This will prevent situations where the Killer gets punished by DS even though they weren’t tunneling and lowers the amount of time survivors are invulnerable but still allows for them to escape to safety.
EDIT: After some nice talk, I decided to change the conditions of being inside the Killer's Terror Radius to a specific distance the survivor gets from the Killer. The change still allows everything said above to happen, but just removes all the variables and extreme situations that can come from using a Killer's TR.
Comments
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Forgetting killers like Wraith, Freddy, Pig, Ghostface, and Myers.
With these killers it becomes a straight up nerf.
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Stop trying to make more DS changes to happen, it's not going to happen.
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Really? I don’t see this as a nerf to them. If your Wraith and see the guy get unhooked and you DECIDE to chase them, the timer will continue to go down. This works with any stealth killer. Plus DS is still there to prevent you from tunneling the unhooked survivor.
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It’s just an idea, chill down. Hundreds of people comment each day about ideas to change perks, killers, or game mechanics. Of course BHVR aren’t going to do every single change someone says. That’d be horrible. I’m just giving an idea of a unique way to change DS. Is it going to happen in the near time? Most likely not but that’s not a reason why I shouldn’t try.
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I'd rather see it deactivate if these conditions are met:
- a person is hooked before you.
- you work on a gen.
- you get in a locker.
- you heal to full health.
Then it would be a straight anti-tunneling perk, not just a punish for letting them get unhooked perk.
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Yeah, I would want to see that too. But the main problem is just it would be too complicated to new survivors or killers. It would be just a “what does it do again?” or “wait, how did I lose it?” With this change it’s pretty much trying to get rid of as many issues with one change. It’s not going to solve everything but at least it takes out as many as it can.
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Honestly after having a game with four randoms all using decisive strike, I wouldn't mind this change. Just slashing the timer to 30 seconds is what I'd want, honestly.
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Go down in half the time it was before. As we've seen with Freddy and BT.
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Sounds like there are way to many variables that would end up in play.
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I felt like maybe making it so it would pause when you were an X amount of meters from the killer would be better than the TR but so far nothing like that has been implemented into the game for survivor’s side.
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Personally don't think it should be changed. A lot of top killers know how to avoid it and I think it's in a very healthy place. I personally love the synergy between it and perks like head on and inner strength.
I think there are a lot better perks to look at than DS.
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I guess you meant top rank killer players, or it's actually top killers that just can power through DS?
If perk is in every game, it's not healthy. Yes, that does count ruin. It's the same as saying that spirit is in healthy state since she's used by everybody.
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To make it a true and solely anti-tunnel perk (even though I don't think "tunneling" is a legit thing to be upset about) it should only activate when a rescue is preformed with the killer being a certian, constant, distance from the hook. It could then remain active indefinetly until..
- The survivor: Enters a locker, begins repairs on a gen, preforms a rescue, heals or gets healed, the survivor gets out side of the same radius required to activate(negating discrepancies between large and small TR killers) begins opening the gates, or is within a certian distance of an open gate.
- The killer: enters a chase with a different survivor or kicks a gen.
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I see those rules as simple, since it just means whenever you aren't in a direct chase by the killer.
It'd make it a true anti-tunneling perk.
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Survivors can abuse this by staying in the killer's TR.
Anti-tunneling version of DS: DS is active for 60 seconds following being unhooked. If 4 survivors are left and 2 are hooked, DS deactivates; if 3 survivors are left and 1 is hooked, DS deactivates; if 2 or fewer survivors are left, DS doesn't activate because tunneling is not a thing at that point. DS does not activate during the EGC.
I doubt DS is actually going to get changed anytime soon, though, so this is all just kind of wishful thinking.
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While this is true, that survivor is always chasing you so they’re not doing anything productive. I see where this could be a problem if perhaps it was Doc playing in The Game, but you can always slug them for 30 seconds if your suspicious they were following you. And finally, while your idea would work quite nicely, the change would be useless if you can’t down people fast enough to use the benefits. Unless you’re destroying the survivors, you will usually get the first person killed with 1-2 gens remaining. Of course this depends on the Killer, how good the survivors are, and how well the Killer stopped gen progress.
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The only problem I see with this is if the Killer chased the guy that unhooked you and then immediately went back onto you. With how you described it, DS would only be active for 5 seconds and then be gone instantly. Same thing if the Killer kicked the gen that was right next to where you were hook. Just keep the survivor side of the change and maybe it’d work.
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Okay, this was a weird match, but it still illustrates my point: I get DS'd after two hooks. The survivor who DS's me stayed in my TR the whole time. They played poorly; I don't exactly play well in this clip, but I was still DS'd for trying to capitalize on their bad play. With only one gen left, this DS was very costly.
(Watching the video, it might seem obvious that I should've expected DS. Don't forget, it feels very different when you're actually playing vs watching a video.)
Considering I play like crap and can have this happen, I can't imagine how it is for better killers than me.
Doing well as killer is precarious. I watch streamers sometimes and see them doing well, doing well, then they make one mistake and lose the match for it (losing the match = one or fewer kills).
"the change would be useless if you can’t down people fast enough to use the benefits."
Personally, I don't see it that way. What I mean is, I'm not looking for a way to benefit killers. Deactivating DS by hooking other survivors isn't a benefit, it's just a way to prevent killers who don't tunnel from being DS'd.
Also, how would a killer know that the survivor's been hanging out in their TR? On The Game map, 90 seconds after being unhooked, the killer downs the survivor, picks them up, and gets DS'd because the survivor was within the killer's TR the entire time. The killer can't predict that and in some situations it's much harder to play around. If a killer comes across a survivor more than a minute after being unhooked, they're not going to be thinking that they may need to slug for 30 seconds to avoid DS.
Plus, if a killer without a TR can take advantage of a shorter DS by going into stealth mode, that doesn't really seem fair on the survivor. Especially when killers like Wraith and Pig are often notorious hook campers/tunnelers; those are situations where you definitely want DS at its full strength.
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If you need any more footage to support your point, I have hours of footage where I don't camp, Tunnel, or Slug barely and I still get hit with DS cause of how pragmatic I am with my perks. All of my perks save me time, that adds up to getting DS'ed when i thought there MINUTE was up.
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Yea I meant top rank killers. I think DS is the best perk to counter tunnelling killers in the game and also has the best mind game potential.
You also say that if the perk is used in every game it's not healthy. You have to realise that there are 4 killers perks to 16 survivor perks, therefore meaning your more likely to see DS than killers perks like BBQ or Ruin.
In all honesty I want ever survivor to run it. It happens too often that someone gets tunnelled and gets killed because they don't have DS.
As I said I understand some peoples problem with it but I don't think there is any reason to go back and change it again when it isn't top priority. There are many other things that deserve looked at ahead of DS.
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Thank you for all the feedback and even a video to back up your claim! I guess that’s why all the hard work is put out on the Devs. No way I could handle all the possible outcomes with balances changes and tweaks to Killers/Perks. Looking back now, the better change would’ve been to implement a meter based distance from the killer, similar to what Mettle of Man does. That way it would lessen all the variables TR can bring. I still believe that this idea is still a good change for DS but I’m still happy to hear other changes people have brought.
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Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I’ll continue to respond to anyone who still wants to update the thread, but for now I’d like to take a lil’ break. I wish you good luck in the fog!
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No thank you, we have PLENTY of footage of that happening. But that's the main reason why I made this post for. It's difficult changing such a powerful and popular perk like DS. And from all I learned, there are always unwanted results that occur with changes like this. I'm a little happier with what I have right now, but for now, I'll let it rest. Plus this is probably going to stay on the back-burner for quite a while.
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Honestly, DS should remain active until the Survivor is healed.
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Nice and simple change. However as of right now we have a big “No healing” meta so not sure how good that would be. Plus it would suck if you got healed by We’ll make it and then for one shoted by Devour Hope.
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This is severely Killer main biased
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