Spirit WILL get nerfed (here's why)
Survivors (aside from the team I just faced that actually learned how to play against her and ended up beating me badly...well played guys) will, 99% of the time, dc the moment they hear you phase. The game I just mentioned was a VERY rare exception. I tried playing Spirit 3 times before that and the moment I phase is when the trouble starts. Devs will give in at some point to the salt pile gathering storm at their table and be FORCED to change her. You know...rather than punishing dc's or inability to learn.
And sure, give me a warning for calling out a forum members bs but let them have free reign over everybody elses posts spreading toxicity and insults at their own free will. They are a survivor main. Guess it makes sense. Pretty good job so far.
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I mean, facing a Spirit is about almost as unfun as facing Pre-Nerf Nurse.
If both are pro's at their main, they'll just destroy the entire team... Trust me, I've faced some pros tonight, and some bad Spirits, but the point is the Killer is just one of the meta Killers now, so of course people will see her more often. And like Nurse, they'll get tired of facing Pro-Spirits with no room for error.
And that of course, will spark more conversations for a nerf. I don't really think she needs a nerf tbh, but her add-ons like Prayer Beads need to be changed for sure.
But like I said, both are pretty boring to face (Nurse and Spirit) depending on if they destroy your team without a shadow of a doubt or not. Facing a decent Spirit is actually fun, same with Nurse. Since they don't just end the chase in under a minute...
[Please read before writing a response to this]
This was written when I was half dead from no sleep, so i'll add this bit here below so people stop mentioning me back here to make the same points...
Yes, facing a pro Survivor team for a decent or average Killer can also be considered boring. It was hypocritical of me to assume that only facing 2 out of the 17 Killers on the roster made the game automatically boring, while the other 15 suffer heavily from a very well coordinated team.
Even a pro coordinated team can beat a Pro-Nurse or Pro-Spirit also, I failed to mention that in the previous post above.
My overall point above was probably focusing on why it's not fun to play against Spirit or Nurse for me personally, but I neglected to mention that others may not feel the same way of course... Some other Players might like the challenge, for me personally and some others do not... Probably because I don't main Survivor... so i'm not a god with them in the first place.
I main Killer, but play Survivor on and off whenever Killer gets bored. Perhaps this was reflecting on new experiences from facing it on the other side MORE often than I did before. It's not like I was alienated from how powerful these Killers are, I just didn't face them AS much as I did tonight because of my achievement hunting for the last achievement I need.
I can respect that some people like the challenge of facing a Pro-Spirit or Pro-Nurse... because that's the equivalent to how I feel against facing a Pro-Survivor team or a good SWFs... I like the challenge when facing them with a lower tiered Killer, it's quite fun for me.
For others of course, it isn't at all... so I should've reflected on that point a bit more before actually making this post.
Post edited by FireHazard on16 -
I have fun versing Nurse as long as she doesn't use omegablink or multiple blinks addons.
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I think you are reaching when you say 99% of the time will DC.
Yes people DC against Spirit, but they also DC against Insta Hillbillies and Clowns (with exhaust add ons) and Iri Head Huntress, Hardcore Slow Freddy etc.
I’m not saying it is right, but players will DC against anything they find annoying to play against.
Not every piece of feedback against Spirit is considered “a pile of salt”. Her Prayer Beads add on should at the very least be turned into an Ultra-Rare. This alone doesn’t even solve the problem because you still get a ton of Ultra Rares in the bloodweb as it is.
At the end of the day people are allowed an opinion, and it doesn’t have to be the one you agree with. The real entitlement exists in those who think they can have an opinion but others that disagree with them can’t.
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The Devs have already stated they have no plans for Spirit. She's perfectly fine how she is. People just need to learn the counters.
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Most don't, they just run with no offering or add-on because it's pretty easy to down an entire team with literally just base-kit a lone... That's kind of another reason why they're nerfing base-kit but that's a different discussion.
The point is, depending on if they're the apex Nurse or Spirit main will definitely impact how you enjoy the game. A lot of Nurse's or Spirits are kind of acting toxic as of late for some reason, not all of them of course but a fair bit of them are...
Probably because Nurse is soon going to not be considered a "crutch" to Survivors facing those Nurse mains, and Killers that don't want to associate with that Killer.
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@FireHazard All you need is a good ears.
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That's not going to really fix anything if you can hear her or not.
You need to know how to abuse her lack of sight during phasing and other such things when facing her.
But this isn't a guide to fight against her, this is just me pointing out how facing both those Killers is... not really fun? It depends on who you're, if you play casually or not, or if you main Survivor.
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@FireHazard Lol I wasn’t talking about survivors playing against her.
I was talking about how she is very easy to use when all you need is good ears.
You can hear a wounded survivor so much that you don’t need to see them visually to track them. This killer is already good without Add ons like Prayer Beads.
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They already nerfed her after the release. All. Nobody will touch her now. The following are alterations: Herman, Billy, Bubba, Michael and Amanda.
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They actually buffed her after release in 2.2.1 and 2.3.0
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Here's why Nurse, Spirit and Hillbilly are getting nerfed: They're getting nerfed because these devs seem to be under the impression that the solution to the fundamental issues of red ranks is to nerf the only killers capable of applying enough mobility/chase potential and map pressure.
Guess what? If you had a single clue about game balance you'd understand that's no the solution. The solution is to buff other killers and to balance the reliance of importance on time management + map pressure, thus increasing the viability of all killers, and then nerfing the best killers that take advantage of it.
But god forbid these devs have a clue. Clearly they understand what I'm saying given the fact that all of their reworks and newer killers have often had some way that allows them to apply map pressure due to some form of movement (Freddy, Demo)
Post edited by KuromiStarwind on5 -
Oh, well in that case it's the same with Nurse. Out the door she can be OP in the right hands, it just depends who's playing them that is...
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I read these changes, these buffs, weakly. They also removed the ability to see blood when she is in phase walking, is that a buff? They made her what she is now. I do not see the problem and any hints of her nerf.
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I have to disagree with Nurse not beeing fun to face. The reasn why Spirit isn't fun is the lack of feedback about anything she is doing. Nurse is quite the opposite of that. You can see and hear how long she charges her blink, where she stand is looking at, You can guess even during her blink, where she will stand in the end etc. She gives you a lot feedback, that allow you to play a little mindgame of prediction/positioning against her. The only problem were certain AddOns which messed with the consistency of it. But that will be fixed with the AddOn-rework.
Spirit was buffed after release. She used to have a way too long cooldown and Prayer Beads only reduced her phasing sound e.g. The only "nerfs" I can remember where audio issues caused through several patches.
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Seeing blood was a bug and not intended.
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The ability to see blood is the effect of her UR addon, father's glasses.
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2.2.0
- The Spirit: Reduced the terror radius to 24 meters: down from 32 meters
- The Spirit: The sound made while using her power has been reduced in volume
- The Spirit: Survivors will not hear the Spirit sound (when she uses her power) when they are within 8m from the husk
- The Spirit: Removed visibility of blood from injured survivors while using her power
- The Spirit: Slightly increased the duration of the passive phase effect
- The Spirit: Fixed the lunge distance so it is consistent with other regular speed killers (also fixed Huntress and Hag)
2.2.1
- Reduced the default recharge time of the Spirit's power from 20 seconds to 15 seconds
2.3.0
- The Spirit's phasing audio has been adjusted: Survivors within the Spirit Husk's terror radius will not hear the phasing sound. Survivors outside the Spirit Husk's terror radius can hear the Spirit's phasing sound, but will not be able to determine its direction. Survivors will no longer be able to hear the Spirit's breathing while she is phasing.
MY GOD IS SUCH A BUFF. Everything that is written about the Spirit in the named patches. All this fix bugs and fixes. The only buff she had was changing the cooldown of an ability from 20 seconds to 15. That's it.
OH MY GOD, WHAT A BUFF, IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAY.
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Allow me to repeat, its fun to face Nurse if she isn't a pro... a decent Nurse is fun to face because they make mistakes.
Facing a pro nurse is almost a death sentence... because she'll know all the mind-games and tricks Survivors will do against her, and as such she'll also know to how far to blink and how long she needs to charge said blink...
Like I also said, some people like the challenge, others don't like facing OP Killers, some just want to face regular Killers that don't ignore the games mechanics, that's just how it is...
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I answered above. If you don’t know, it’s better not to say anything than to write nonsense.
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These actually are really good buffs, but your sarcasm literally made me cringe
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Once again, these are bug fixes with PTB 2.2.0. This is what she should be. OMG. I don’t know how much more I need to simplify my language, what would you understand.
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Okay, so decreasing the TR and literally changing alot of things about her is bug fixes
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I stand with my point still as you said "Bug fixes from the PTB" not "Changes from the PTB"
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Congrats on 100 posts btw, but I think you are happy rn
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The Same can be said for a Good SWF as you've said for a Good Spirit... Killers have to have fun too. There's very little middle ground when it comes to both survivors and killers having fun since one sides fun usually takes away from the others.
I'll agree with prayer beads needing a Nerf or to be removed but that's It.
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She won't be touched for now. Peanits said yesterday
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This is really funny of you to say.
Its not fun to play killer against pro survivors. They can go perkless and it will still not be fun. You might have a chance to kill or hook a few of them if you're playing a top tier killer, but even then, any mistake and they probably just waltz out while tbagging you.
Its hypocritical to focus on the killers ruining the survivors fun under the presumption that the killer playing a perfect game means the survivors will lose. Because its only the nurse and the spirit (maybe), in which the killer holds the game in there hands. That is 2 of 17 killers where the killer wins by playing perfectly. In every other killers case the killer is 100% dependent on survivor mistakes to win.
Absurd.
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Yes, the same can be said for a pro-toxic SWFs or just a pro-SWFs.
Survivors are not alienated from being unfun to face to as a Killer, but when a Pro-SWFs faces a Pro-Nurse, than that sounds like fun.
Otherwise, if its just a Pro-Nurse facing decent or bad Survivors than no... and if its a Pro-SWFs bullying/gen rushing a LeatherFace, than yeah... that doesn't really sound fun for the Killer either.
I'm just speaking from both sides, but I main Killer for the most part. (But I also play Survivor of course... not like once or twice, at this moment I've played for 5 hours as Survivor, but i'm about done for today since my sleeping pattern is messed up and its my off day so... might as well right???)
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I never said a Pro-SWF doesn't fall under the same thing as a Pro-Nurse or Pro-Spirit.
I hate when people just stuff words in my mouth I didn't say, look... if you face a Pro-SWFs than it depends on if you LIKE a challenge or not... I can't say the same for others who don't like SWFs of course.
The same is with Spirit and Nurse if they have no room for error and will destroy your team. A decent team doesn't want to face those two Killers with players that main them and know every trick in the book, the same goes for a decent Killer facing a Pro-SWFs that will play the game and use every loop in the most efficient way possible.
So yes, of course both sides have things that make them NOT FUN TO FACE. Killers can use moris, Iridecent hatchet heads, Pinky finger for toxin, infinite tier llls, Prayer Beads, etc...
The same goes for Survivors, it's not fun facing Insta-heal med-kits, a full SWFs, a solo team gen rushing, etc, etc.
Obviously both sides have things that can make the experience not fun... It just depends who you're as a player if you enjoy the challenge or not. And if you don't and you want a simple M1 Killer or just a solo team with no SWFs on coms... than there ya go!
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I never put words you your mouth, my first paragraph wasn't an assertion that you thought a pro swf was fun to play against, it was simple setting up the focus on the hypocrisy of your assertion that it isn't fun for survivors to play against a nurse or spirit because the game cannot be won if the nurse or spirit does not make any mistakes.
For 15 of the killers this is ALWAYS the case, and even a pro nurse, who makes no mistakes can still "lose" a game against a pro survivor swf team.
This is not reflective of how I feel about the balance of the game, it is simple a demonstration of why what you wrote, and the way you wrote it is hypocritical.
also, since you want to throw a tantrum about "words in mouth", I said "pro survivors" not pro swf. In any case, I'm not bothered, because thats what a discussion really is, a back and forth, in which through the use of words we come to understand each others thoughts. This involves making assumptions about the thoughts and feelings of the writer because your mind is impossible to read. It is then your responsibility to provide feedback that allows me a deeper understanding. Its of course common in the written word for people to overreact and read everything with a tone of hostility. But I assure you that isn't the case. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy because I enjoy reading the forums while I'm waiting for games or avoiding work :p.
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Chases shouldn't be going on for over a minute, period. That's at least 75% of three gens done, or one gen done and another almost done.
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I don't experience this when I play spirit. Also this won't be an issue once they start punishing dc
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Most don't like her because most use multiple blinks or range addons.
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It was an example, some people didn't like that I said it ended in under 30 seconds, or even 15 sounds more realistic if its a Pro-Nurse.
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That's not the entire truth, a lot of people don't like her because she has such huge potential to snowball during the first few seconds of the game...
She traverses the map just as fast as Billy and can down people faster THAN Billy himself... She can also down multiple people at a hook in the span of 30 seconds if she's that good...
That's kinda why her base-kit is being nerfed, cause most nurses don't really use add-ons or even offerings since they'll just get an easy 31k points...
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It's hard having a discussion with multiple people when you didn't sleep at all last night and everyone wants to take a jab at the conversation. No, i'm not throwing a tantrum about it, tbh I don't honestly care if your view is different from mine, that's kinda what a discussion is all about, talking about things people don't agree with.
Whether I can't understand why what I wrote is hypocritical or not, or i'm just too tired to understand it... I know this, yes only about 2 of the 17 roster of Killers can only fall under this issue while the other 15 are left to their own devices. What I CAN say for sure is that because of these 2 Killers it causes a vacuum of complaints to ensue. It's mostly due to how much they ignore most, if not all mechanics of a normal chase.
But upon reviewing your previous statement, I think I was just too tired to understand if it was coming off as hostile or not. I can see what you mean by only 2 of the Killers possessing the ability to counter-act these pro survivors (Which I mistook for SWFs for some reason) while the rest are set to only rely on the Survivors mistakes to make ends meet in a match. That's why most Killers outside of those two are not really going to do well against a well coordinated team.
Of course, a Pro-Nurse or Pro-Spirit isn't going to perfect the game all the time, we're only human, we all make mistakes. Even they can get beaten by a good Survivor team, I was just pointing out that most of the time you won't exactly face a good Survivor team if you main both those Killers or just one... and you do it well.
That's kind of the issue this stems from, its the argument of casuals vs pros, or in this case casuals vs Top-Tier Killers. I can admit that I was being hypocritically in my statement, but the point still stands regardless.
And if I still didn't hit the nail on the head by reviewing what you said on 0 sleep... than idk, maybe I should just go to bed and review it later.
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Me and my teammates can usually play against spirit, I hardly see other survivors dc anymore.
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Uhm You are missing my point: nearly every nurse plays with addons, most if them with range addons. The people who hate nurse on red ranks never got enough references to a basekit nurse. They always verse a nurse with the strongest addon and perk combination. If they would verse some basekit nurses they would enjoy it more. It's just how it is. I by myself rarely verse basekit nurses. But when I do I immediately notice that and I have a lot of fun since I can juke her long enough with really fun chases even in open field.
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This. So stop crying guys and git gud for once.. She have so many ways of being countered.
I even left a video in another one of this silly post of "nerf this killer, because im too lazy to equip the required perks" Because that how people sound when they call for a nerf without even a logic argument.
I'll post it one more time, and be advised that this video only shows one way of countering her, you have many more...
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2.2.0 is the initial relase of spirit. This change is in relation to the PTB. It was even not intended in the PTB this was a huge discussion at the time.
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If they nerf Spirit.. I don't know if I could continue playing the game.
I don't understand how people get that upset over a game, that they ask for a nerf because they refuse to learn how to counter her.
I'll agree that her addons could use a change, prayer beads mostly. If they change her base game or ability, that will be it for me.
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I don’t get why people say “it’s boring” you just said the pros at nurse and spirit will destroy teams. If they’re gonna destroy you that means you need to get better. Wouldn’t you want to destroy the pro nurse and spirits? Boring killers are ones that can be countered so easily like legion or cannibal. But people say the really good killers are boring MAkes ZERO SENSE
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This spirit hate really just came out of nowhere didnt it?
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Non-directional phase noises, lower cooldown, lower TR and no hearing phase sound in the TR are all neither bug fixes nor QoL
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Just gonna leave this here.
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The cynic could argue the survs managed to get the the best killer "slightly adjusted" and now go for the next best target.
In reality theres always been people salty at spirit because she's actually invisible and doesnt have to give a headstart, like wraith.
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I think people are just salty she doesnt play like a normal killer. The whole "Standstill is not a Mindgame" meme is proof of that.
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”OMG soooo boring to play against”!
Translation: I can’t win against this consistently so it’s boring.
I feel bad for BHVR, they try to design a unique killer and entitled players whine.
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