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Did peanits really say it is no different between play with voice chat and not play with voice chat?
my friend told me that.
What?is it real?
i know peanits used to say something like put pig's add-on into her basekit is a nerf.
But i refuse to believe peanits would say such a Self-deception thing like title.
i mean.....
what?
if he really said that then i believe
"we are really try hard to CLOSING THE GAP BETWEEN SOLOS AND SWF"
is a lie.
they even don't know or dont want to face what make SWF powerful.
Comments
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I don't think peanits said that. xD
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Here we go... again.
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Specifically, what he said was "it doesn't make a whole lot of difference", and he's not wrong. You only have to look at the solo vs SWF survival rates to see that in the vast amount of cases, the gap is nowhere near as huge as most people assume.
I would caution you against this logic of "the devs clearly have no clue about their own game because they don't agree with me". I'm sure there are gaps in their knowledge, just as there are gaps in ours. But I assure you, Peanits is far from the only person who sees that the difference coms make, in the vast majority of cases, is negligible.
That's not to say that they don't have the potential to be gamebreaking, but it's important to keep it in perspective and recognise that very few survivors take the game seriously enough, and only the tiniest minority of survivor players have the game knowledge necessary to take full advantage of that potential. So in other words, I'm not saying it's not a problem at all, but it's not the widespread disaster that many people like to paint it as.
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i don't think too.
but my friend sended me this.
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Nah he just trotted out the old "hurr hurr we just goof off bruh" line regarding swf.
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yes
and let me see what's the different he said
oh i see.
"if anything ,i probably do worse in voice chat."
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SWF would just use discord or other third party app.
in game servers already have issues, a voice chat would just further complicate things.
in the history of online gaming there are literally not even enough examples of games that i can count on half a hand, in which in game voice chat has contributed in any way to the overall enjoyment and success of the team. csgo is the closest ..but even those channels are forced on you and populated by trolls mostly.
Pugs would probably either not care to turn the voice chat on, abuse it or otherwise limit it's effectiveness.
Soo..that does sound like something an employee with access to statistical information about their game would say. Not that I know whether or not they did say it..likely though. Even if they didn't say it, i'm saying it. in game voice chat is a useless pointless idea that would probably just further encourage trolling and toxicity in this game. Please don't bring voice chat to this game. thanks.
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i agree with you.
ＶＯＩＣＥ ＣＨＡＴ ＳＨＯＵＬＤＮ’Ｔ ＩＮ ＴＨＥ ＧＡＭＥ．
but face it.
SWF without voice chat.
just 4 friends play solo and play together with coincidence.
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That was a personal experience of peanits. Not representative for all players.
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Hope so.
but he as a community manager.
I will regard what he says as a position of DEV.
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let them use discord then. can't stop them from using it. it is a bit unfair, especially since the killer is basically on his own. i guess they coudl lable discord as vac ban app? that seems a bit harsh though.
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it's just sad. so many proponents for in game voice caht, yet they abuse the chat system they already have lol.
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For me, it is like what he is saying. I play mostly solo, like 95%. The games i had on mic, with very close swf. There were little knowledge. My friends had music on, making jokes and not playing 'right'. We were playing to have fun no matter what. Very distracting. However, playing with swf, with @GrootDude it was same silliness, but we got more work done.
I also played with a swf team who were very....um 'sweaty' always had meta perks, never wanted to try something knew, only wore dark clothing and only cared about pips and give the killer a hard time. Gave me a hard time if i wanted to try a new perk, wore bright clothing and if i didn't do what they say. We won a lot, but i didn't have fun.
Personally i wouldn't mind it at only pre-lobby/before the game start for survivors. During game play...eh. What he is saying is that, if you give survivors mics in-game. They won't magically work together or be amazing.
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Actually, i think the way he express is worse.
"it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. If anything, i probably do worse..."
So by playing swf, you can potentially become worse? I think that it is a terrible excuse for swf or the person who say this has no idea about this game. I believe peanit does know well about DBD, so he just used a bad reasoning.
i think people who have spent some time in this game, both as killer and as survivors, have to reach to a consensus that swf with voice chat is op. I don't know how four brians collebrate together can make them worse than one lone brain.
For the statistics data, i think devs only show a general swf escape rate, it does not specify if it is a 2-men swf or 4-men or with voice chat or not. So it doesn't show you the real picture. As a killer, i am okay with 2-men swf, or 3-men swf without vice chat ( I do know some swf do that), but 4-men swf with voice chat in high rank, plus some ultra add-ons and offers, I definitely know it would be a painful game for the killer, even finishing with 4 kills.
Talking about people not taking seriously and messing around with swf, it is a perfect point to illustrate swf's op-ness. Since you know your friends gonna save you with BT or Flashlights, and you know the killer's location all the time by voice chat, you definitely have the luxury to "mess around". Or your swf just don't wanna live and just wanna try some spicy 360s and let killers kill, because you know you can go to "tryhard" mode in next game upon your own willingness, putting on 4 toolboxs, to get a ez win.
Do solo survivors have this luxury? Most time they have to take every game seriously but still get DCers, potato teammates, face campers, etc, trying best still get destined loss. meantime, swf is complaining being able to "mess around" make them in disadvantage. This world is truly a madness, isn't it?
Stop all hypercritics, please.
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Right the majority of people aren’t sweaty swf. Most of us are just friends playing together not out to ruin the killers day. I solo most of the time too, but have a few friends that I play with now who are chill, most even newer to the game(and not even that good that I’m irl friends with).
the only thing swf really does is ensure you don’t die on your first hook, If anything if more people solo’d the survivor experience would be a ######### hole , Bc solos prioritize themself over the team at the end of the day, where I’d make much riskier moves playing with friends.
ive played a lot of solo matches where the team does better overall Bc of the lack of communication and allegiance to the team so everyone is at the top of their game and knows what move will throw the match so yeah you just let that one dude die for the overall sake of the team, Bc the snowball could be game changing. Swf does not give af they will throw the match to get their pal most times spending more time trading hooks than helping with survivor progression.
anyone who plays a decent amount of solo , and swf with different groups knows this, and know most swf groups are not that well organized, or don’t care Bc they’re just playing to have fun and do their objective the best they can, not ruin the killers day. If anything swf gives the killers more hooks due to more reliable altruism.
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But it is a position for many. I don't play survivor unless I'm at least in a duo because it's boring and unengagine. In a SWF I can meme and not get raged at in the post-game chat by the other survivors (I don't want to ruin the experience of others tbh)
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He's a community manager, not a developer. It's also clear, in the post that you dug up, that he was expressing something anecdotal, and not some official company position.
It seems to me like you are wilfully, belligerently disregarding all of that, though.
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I play solo and enjoy it.
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Actually, the statistics specifically show survival rates for solo survivors vs 2-man, 3-man and 4-man SWF. The difference between survival rates for solo and 4-man is roughly 7%.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the way you're talking gives me the impression that you don't play much SWF yourself, and this is stuff that you're assuming must be the case based on your own reasoning and things you've heard or seen. But theory doesn't always align with practice. Everyone I've seen comment on this topic who actually does play a significant amount of SWF seems to be of the opinion that Peanits' assessment is pretty accurate.
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Theres a flaw in that argument.
- As solo, he apparantly is playing to win, or atleast do as best as he can
- With his buddies, he's goofing around.
Of course there wouldnt be a huge difference then, they're not even trying nor using the tools theyve given themselves.
"The fact that most people goof around instead doesnt invalidate players using it effectively." Gonna remind all folks that this concept is getting killers nerfed.
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?
as i know.
he is not just a fan who helped DEV right?
he is one of the DEV's member right?
he has the
icon.
and he is the one who post the NEWS and answer some of our questions right?
so as i see
he is nearly to be a spokesman of DEV.
so what's wrong if I regard what he says as a position of DEV ?
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Just dedicate an entire month where half the time you play solo survivor, and the other half you join random swf teams of all varieties and you’ll see for yourself. You can do just as well as a swf team as you can as a team while playing solo. Count the number of people that die each match. There’s not a large difference. It’s really just knowledge of in game mechanics and how competent the survivors are vs the killer at task prioritizing.
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In solo games you will often be on the hook and can see the auras of your teammates doing nothing. They don't know who is going the save or where the killer is.
Even if you are goofing around, in an SWF only 1 person will go for that save, nobody else will just be crouching.
The efficiency of communications give you should not be dismissed. I don't care what the official stats say, we can all see the huge difference it makes.
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Good for you? Many don't.
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The first part of their post is simply their own experience with using voice. Makes sense if they usually mess around with friends while in SWF, as it's 100% anecdotal.
The second part is important. Way too many people fail to realize that the strength of SWF is more complicated than simply voice chat. I'd argue the fact the players know eachother's playstyles, strengths and weaknesses is a more powerful advantage for the vast majority of SWF parties. You know that Johnny over there isn't that good at running from the killer, so Amy who is really good at it tries to get the killer's attention instead. And everyone knows Jack and John has Borrowed time, so they're the ones that go for the risky unhooks. This is something that can't be emulated with integrated voice chat, and makes it sorta pointless to compare it to SWF on VOIP. Nothing they do do "close the gap" can truly make every 4-solo group feel like playing against SWF for this very reason.
But in the end it doesn't matter. Even if Peanits explicitly said what you're accusing them of, it's not gonna change a thing. They will never apply mechanical nerfs/handicaps to SWF parties, and they'd be completely bonkers to waste resources on trying to interfere with people's use of VOIP apps. If it's a dealbreaker to you, do yourself a favor and uninstall the game.
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Nobody denies it gives an advantage , but you can’t force the killer to not chase down Susie who isn’t that good at running. I’ve been on really great solo teams who just beat the killer Bc we surveyed the environment. You don’t have to get that close to a hook to see if the killer is still in the area get back on a gen, or see if another survivor is closer than you are for the save . It’s really not rocket appliances to easily close the gap btw the difference of with voice coms and without. Solo you’re just more likely to go through hook phases, or end up with ppl who dc. it all boils down to game competence and how much each person has on the team.
here’s the real kicker though in all of my swf matches with coms the best survivors with the grossest builds are top ranks who also play killer. Most purely survivor mains I know don’t have but 2/3 of the skill game knowledge that the unbiased players do. Bc they see and have experienced all the killer weaknesses and know how to play around them to their benefit, but also know what survivor moves will completely bone you as a team.
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The biggest advantage is simple things like, "I'll do the rescue, everyone else stay on gens". A solo can achieve this using Bond or Kindred but its a perk slot used that could be used for something else.
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I like the hypocrisy, when it was about nurse/spirit it is about the sweaty god players who are not representative for the entire community.
When it is about SWF, it is about friends goofing around and not the sweaty people playing optimal.
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I don’t use either of those I run wglf , prove thyself, distortion, and iron will or a healing perk as solo, and I can say still not that big of a difference on my escape to death ratio. I have no need for bt since I don’t go for unsafe saves as a solo.
on Swf same but wglf turns into borrowed time Bc now I have to risk myself since that’s my bud on comm and I want them to live longer even if it’s a game changer. I’m coming for you buddy in the basement against hag!!! Oh what’s that you got a 4K Bc we’re swf, when that wouldn’t of worked against competent solos once they read you?
Honestly get a grip it has major rewards for killers too. It has advantages and disadvantages. Then majority that actually favors killers Bc actual swat swf are few and far between.
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You want me to "get a grip" for suggesting that being able to tell people to stay on gens is an advantage?
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That is true what he said
I escape more when playing solo survivor than SWF as I usually cannot hear the TR and mess around with friends
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No, but only pointing out advantages like that makes up for skill or compromising a match to try to keep a buddy alive in situations you know are highly likely to spiral. More like reality, the full picture and not just the pieces you choose to leave out ,or have no knowledge of Bc you only see through killer perspective. Idk your playstyle honestly, and won’t assume.Coms swf Isn’t as big of an issue as people make it out to be and that advantage isn’t big enough to warrant any kind of change about it. 7% survival difference, and that was 30% overall last year before all the balancing changes. So I mean if swf was that big of an issue on a grand scale (knowing most play with coms) that number would be more like 50%^
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I try to be balanced. I do sometimes play as a filthy survivor.
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It is frustrating that what we can see for ourselves in matches is so flippantly dismissed.
I have destroyed SWF who were arguing amongst themselves, but when SWF are cooperating and efficiently taking on different roles, it makes the killer role so much more difficult.
I know it is not going away, but I really wish killers got BP bonuses for the trouble and that we had some kind of indication at the end of the match as to how many players were SWF.
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Unfortunately someone always manages to pull out a stat that "proves" that clearly OP killers or perks are fine and clearly broken maps or game mechanics are fine. Playing the game tells us far more about what needs addressing than some carefully manipulated stats ever will.
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^This. Being dumb or just goofing around with your friends is so much more fun than actually trying.
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Four Dwights dressed in pink each equipped with a flashlight? All five of us are getting a fun game!
Four P3 Claudettes with toolkits? I'm going to be crying in the corner at the end.
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I’ve done a tribe of Megs, Dwight’s, Bill’s... you name the survivor, me and my friend group have done a “tribe” of it.
Personal fave activity?
Conga lines. Even better when the killer joins.
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no comms or comm make a huge difference.
Youtube recommended this video for yesterday and this seriously disgusted me, especially the comments how people are finding it funny.
I'm playing both sides but this is what triggers me about SWF. The informations, the possible bullying.
[EDIT] like always i forgot to post the link XD : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOSGVn8mqSQ
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We all do it or have done it at some point in time. I just try to be wholesome for the most part and do my best without actively trying to actively grief the other side.
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It's being taking way out of context.
If you read what Peanits is saying its not that comms can't be strong or game breaking it's just the majority aren't the top hard-core genrushing sweaty players a people think.
He is saying comms don't make less skilled player suddenly good and they do have the side effect of wanting to get everyone out as they are a team while solos don't care either way as it doesn't affect them.
Comms don't break the game themselves if players go down like flies. The one thing that makes comms strong and game breaking is when they are being used by a highly coordinated team of good players who have the skill and knowledge to use them to the full potential.
Peanits is also just stating his feelings on it. Just because he works for BHVR doesn't mean he isn't allowed to post them or that they are representative of how the whole team feel.
I feel at times some people are just looking for things to complain about and take things way out of context just to try and stir things up. These are the same people who complain when BHVR go silent at times but who can blame them?
A prime example is this one post suddenly now negates the others more recently where Peanits has stated they are still looking to close the gap and is now being used to basically argue they are not. Go figure.
Peanits does a great job for the userbase and is the most vocal of them all sharing information and engaging with us. Don't bite the hand that feeds us.
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Anybody who says or think voice comm is not op in this game for the survivors is dumb. And it is a bad excuse that "we would do stupid things". It is not because the voip, you would do this without voip too in swf. And on other hand you know where is the killer, you know when he chase someone, when he stopped chasing, you can communicate where you saw the hex totem, while the killer chase you. You can communicate who go for a save, where is the hatch and many many other things.
And if you think this is not an advantage compared to those, who can't communicate these things, then you never played this game.
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"I play a mix of SWF both with and without voice chat. I gotta' say that it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. If anything, I probably do worse in voice chat because we're more likely to mess around and go for silly shenanigans like Head On."
And this is the reason why Dead by Daylight is imbalanced.
Instead of balancing the game around what each side/character is capable of at their best (the highest potential of gameplay for both sides), Behaviour balances the game around players "messing around and going for silly shenanigans" which I assume is majority of SWF.
If everyone is around the same skill level, and one side is not even serious about winning and goofing around, and the other side is striving their best to win, of course the side trying their hardest should win. Common sense, right? And yet Behaviour continues to collect "data" that shows that SWF (goofing around) aren't doing much better than solos, so they continue to refrain from making any significant actions on balancing solos and SWF. In other words, bad decision-making is actually encouraged among SWF so that the "data" will give an impression that SWF isn't significantly stronger against killers. That way, SWF who are actually wanting to win can continue to dominate for majority of the time against similarly skilled killers, and SWF who "just like having fun" can continue to win at least from time to time against similarly skilled killers trying their absolute best to win.
Sounds fair.
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Here is a thought , especially for those talking about the numbers . First , how can they tell what swf groups are using voice coms and who are not ? secondly when talking about solo vs swf polling numbers is that by rank or by player base ?
If you are polling the entire player base there are more lower tier survivors playing solo then swf , also less organized players in those brackets . at red ranks , where most of the complaints about it come from what are the numbers ?
IMO , a red ranked survivor who got there playing solo is probably the far superior survivor then someone who relied on voice coms and organization . So if you put 4 player who got there solo into a organized swf with voice coms or even not they will probably do great , but if you take the swf and voice coms from the player who relied on it to get there and made them play solo they probably will not do so great .
Voice coms are a issue , the choice of using them or not aside , they can bring in chaos and unwanted childish bs , but they offer a whole new level of gameplay as well . Before you debate that , here is a perfect RL example . Why does spec ops use coms (yes they do go radio silent but also use hand signals in its place at that point) , to coordinate and to their advantage . Now before you say well that is a military special forces group , a small town county sheriffs offices uses them for the same reason but on a different level of skill . This is no different here , 4 players with a high skill level and voice coms are the spec ops of the game , your mid levels are the county sheriffs , and well trolls will always be trolls .
So if the devs are playing mid to low end matches with voice I can see them not being so different . Its only really a huge issue when the player work together and get organized .
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Since comms make no difference and you can’t get rid of it I suggest the following since it matters little:
allow the killer to have 3 friends who spectate and move about the map as ghosts and feed the killer info on what survivors are doing.
its only fair and I mean comms matter little anyway!
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Logical fallacy my friend. If you put potatoes on voice coms and experts in solo of cause it doesn't look like a big difference. But when you out 4 experts in solo Q and then the same 4 in swf voice coms you will notice a huuuuuge difference. Everyone who denies that is lying to himself.
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A lot of killers give the last survivor hatch, does that happen in a large majority to throw off overall data of kill rate, no. It’s called a variable.
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Again, I'd be interested to know how much SWF you yourself play. I play SWF quite a lot, and my experience has been much more aligned with Peanits'. Every SWF player I've seen on the forums and in this thread also seems to have that same experience.
I'm not denying that in the hands of an expert, and I mean like top 0.5%, player, voice coms can be a significant advantage. But for the vast majority of players, that's not really the case, because they don't have the game knowledge to take advantage of it. Although potentially people could be going "I found the killer's ruin totem, it's in the north-west corner of the map behind the T-wall, and I'm looping them about 50 metres away", that's not really how it happens in practice. Most of the time the conversations in my game run more like this:
"I found the ruin totem."
"Awesome. [Thirty seconds later] Have you cleansed it yet?"
"No, I'm in a chase."
"... Okay, where is it?"
"It's uh... kind of near the middle but also not really... behind a tree somewhere."
"Thanks, that narrows it down. I'll go look for it, then. [goes to cleanse totem, runs straight into killer] I thought you said you were in a chase?!"
"Oh yeah, no, I lost him."
That is, if we bother to communicate about what's going on in the game at all. And I'm betting that 99% of SWF players have a similar experience.
The other thing is, a lot of people who like to complain about the unfairness of voice coms don't take into account the disadvantages of playing with friends as opposed to solo, such as the impulse to do dangerous things you know you shouldn't do, like go for a hook save against a facecamper, for the sake of saving them. They're small, maybe, but they can and have cost me a lot of games.
To reiterate, I have never denied that in the right hands, SWF with voice coms can be a problem. I'm just saying that it's unrealistic to assume, as many seem to, that teams like that are anything more than a very small minority. And as Peanits said, there is a degree to which skilled and well-coordinated players will always be skilled and well-coordinated, regardless of the tools they are given to communicate.
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Oh look the majority that actually plays swf agrees with the majority that plays swf. I don’t like playing with the sweaty com groups do you? I find them incredibly annoying as personality types. I like to play with people who just know how to play that I get along with , or actual friends even if they’re crap at the game Bc I just got them to buy it so we can play together. What about you?
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No, quite the opposite. The end of that same post (cropped out) says that voice chat can give you an edge. That's just saying that giving a group of bad players voice chat isn't suddenly going to make them good, and you shouldn't mistake good survivors for just being a voice chat issue.
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