I'm extremely disappointed with the Nurse changes BHVR
We gave you so much feedback on not only how unfun this change was (and how annoying the constant ding is) but also how about half of the addons you changed are going to be just as unused and useless as they were before you did this :/
You also stated you didn't want to effect muscle memory in her kit but at least 3 addons change this still, and you also said you wanted to avoid the scenario where a lot of addons were never used but HERE WE ARE. LOTS OF FEEDBACK AND ALMOST 0 CHANGE LATER.
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Old nurse was incredibly unfun and vastly overpowered. No one cares that you aren't having fun with a newly balanced character. You will be ok
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Is a 3.5 seconds cool down that harsh
also the add ons are more fair now yes there are still a few you wont use but I like the add ons that change the use of the power completely or give it a new ability
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she is not balanced!
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On a 90% speed killer? Very.
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Yeah I'm almost positive everyone saying "git gud" to the changes never played her more than a week. She just isn't fun anymore, doesn't matter if she's strong or not it's not fun being punished for every single thing you do on top of having the game be slanted against you.
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The cooldown starting AFTER an attack was not present at all during the PTB.
There will be a huge wave of complaints incoming soon.
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The issue is with survivors who are able to make it to LOS and delay a Nurse from being able to blink on them for that duration. After that long, a survivor who understands how to play against nurse can after making it to a LOS blocker (Asylum, Jungle Gyms, indoor maps [screw hawkins]) they will take a route in which the Nurse is unable to follow them with her eyes, making for a prediction blink to catch up being almost entirely impossible. People don't seem to realize how much Nurse relies on prediction, which I might add is never guaranteed. Say you blink inside the asylum and fatigue at the bottom of the stairs while a survivor runs up there and breaks LOS. They have SO MANY pathing options available to them, and you have to make the best educated guess as to what path they took. Often they could have 3+ options, and the longer you're unable to utiilize your double blinks the worse your odds are for making the right choice. In the open, she's still strong (Aside from wonky geometry cucking her often) but indoor maps and maps like Yamoka, Haddonfield, and Asylum she becomes a ton weaker in being able to down.
Thing is, some people seem to just jump to "no counterplay, so I won't put in any effort." When they frankly have it. Is it as big as other killers? No. But if a killer has consistent counterplay that can prolong the chase reliably, what's stopping the other 3 survivors from using it? This isn't a 1v1, but a 1v4. The killer should have a clear and decisive advantage in chases. A survivor's greatest tool against this is collective objective pressure. Working together and understanding when to save and do gens is paramount to a victory. I wish those people would see it from this perspective instead of thinking they should be able to single-handedly hold back a power that should be equivalent to 4 of himself.
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Good riddance.
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Her core character is so innately overpowered that she's incredibly hard to actually balance. They can't have her not be overpowered without making her feel way less "fun" than she was before. They should have reworked her a long long time ago. But sadly they haven't. So until then, you are left with current nurse. If they ever reverted the changes it would be one of the worse decisions they ever made, I would have to go back to insta DCing any time I heard her screech.
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Are you saying the cooldown timer starts after a regular attack? As in the cooldown resets?
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When is there not a huge wave of complaints on this forum?
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You accurately described the problem, thank you! I wish more people understood this.
Being one of the only 3 killers who are actually viable in high elo is not being overpowered. She had counterplay, and she took SKILL. She wasn't an easy win, the reward you got was the skill you put in. Also you insta DCing is part of the bigger problem. I don't want to hurl insults but that is extremely entitled behavior. If you refuse to learn how to counter her you have no one else but yourself to blame.
The cooldown now correctly starts up when fatigue happens after a swing. On PTB the cooldown started right away during the swing so there was much less downtime. Now on live it's going to be EVEN EASIER to completely lose her because she, like Financial said above, relies heavily on predictions which won't work when everyone can run miles away by the time you can blink again.
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- Fixed an issue that would cause the blink recharge timer to start too early if the player attacks after blinking.
Also, they gave her cooldown add-ons "The Legion Treatment"
- Dark Cincture: Blink recharge time modifier changed from -0.6 seconds to -0.4 seconds.
- Fragile Wheeze: Blink recharge time modifier changed from -0.9 seconds to -0.6 seconds
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Right, because giving up immediately and not even seeing if it's a good nurse or try to learn, you just dc and wonder why nurse feels unbeatable, she was so strong she needed balance, not a complete rework that brings her skyrocketing down. Imagine on survivors side they say were fixing infinites and then make the entity blocker 1, That's what happened to nurse.
People like you are an even bigger issue than anything in this game In my opinion, you hear something you dont like so immediately give the win to the killer, you dont even consider trying or consider that your team might all be amazing and get people out. No, you dc and ensure the killer wins and then blame the killer? Your the reason your team lost, not because nurse is op, but because you couldn't even try for your team you just quit because you didnt like it, like a child.
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She's just awkward and unfun to play as now. You can't play as aggressive, you spend a lot of your time not blinking where you normally would because if you mess up, which you can for a number of reasons, it's punishing. It's super, super punishing. But you move so slow you have to take that chance, but because you are, LoS and distance can be given to the survviors so easily. Hell, it also kills the map pressure of THE SLOWEST KILLER IN THE GAME because she can't travel as frequently.
Do you know lame it is to enter a fatigue, and have to look and watch as the survivor creates a ton of distance and LoS, until you get your second charge. Then you do it again, but you have to perfectly predict long distance blinks to make up for it. EXCEPT YOU CAN'T! Unless you somehow land 2 perfect blinks in the distance + los they created, you'll be in the exact same position you were before. No killer is this punishing in the entire game, even if I only played two games so far.
This has all just been one big lazy change because they're too half-assed to balance anything in this game. Just because you nerf everything doesn't mean you shouldn't sit back and go "Is this fine?" or "Should we buff anything to compensate"?
I don't play her much to begin with since I prefer the fun of Huntress, but jeez, you guys really know how to kill things.
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Essentially making the addons the basekit of new Nurse even with them equipped. Now you can't get your blinks back "instantly" like everyone keeps claiming.
In fact I think every killer should've been brought up to her level. She actually makes you play the game differently and not just ring around the pallet/L-wall. She could've been TONED down a little, not REWORKED.
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I don't wonder why Nurse is unbeatable. I know if it's a good nurse she's unbeatable and no matter what I'm not going to have fun playing against them. Her core design is a design that ignore every gameplay mechanic that survivors have while in chase. There isn't another character in any other multiplayer game that does that. The survivor equivalent of old nurse would be the old infinites and no entity blocker. Current survivor is what they did to nurse. She's still fine as a killer. People are just unhappy because they don't feel stupid op anymore. They actually have to micromanage and be somewhat skilled at the killer to do well. They can't just no brain nurse and kill stuff
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You understand the problem even though you don't realize it.
Why, as killer, would I want even MORE micromanging that comes with EXTREME punishment? I already have to keep track of gens, hooks, what hook they're on, their perks, etc... etc... and now I also have to hear DING DING DING DING DING DING DING while I'm fuming from having to constantly wait for my 2nd blink even though it looked like I had it?
Play her. See if you have fun.
Spoiler; you wont.
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Right, because when survivors got their much needed nerf it was because they didnt feel op anymore? Not because they had every advantage, you think nurse breaks mechanics? Fine, she doesn't play looped till daylight so its op, you cant loop a nurse or bully a good one, you stay hidden and make her guess, you cant run a good one for 5 gens, if you make a chase last more than a minute then your team should be rushing the insane gen speed, if it's a good nurse against a good team she'll get 2 downs and lose 2 gens for it, if you split up and go on separate gens, like that you have 2/5 of the objective done while the killer has 2/12 done.
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I love how he keeps comparing the old "dark times" of survivors like it was ok that could literally force a killer to abandon them because they could never be caught.
A lot of survivor changes make the game actually balanced. Most of the time killers have to be buffed because they aren't the power role. God forbid the one killer that actually was makes you scared and have to actually try.
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I am pretty sure you tested the new Nurse on the Live Version in the 30 minutes this Update is live.
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2 killers, and I'd bet my soul he wants spirit back to her original ptb level because "balence".
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I don't care if she's fun or not. I care if she's balanced or not. She was insanely overpowered before. Any nerfs to her would have been justified. Power wise she's fine after the nurse. Fun is subjective and I guarantee some people will still enjoy her. Other people won't. If they can't nerf her like they did and have her still be fun, then they need to rework her. They could remove her from the game entirely and I would be just as happy. I genuinely don't care about the nurse or people who play her. But, if you truly want the nurse to be fun push for a rework, not a revert. They aren't going to revert her changes nor should they. This has been years coming for the killer and it's long overdue.
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TBH I've forgotten what she was like on PTB, I don't really play her. She doesn't suit the style I like to play (teleporting, hence Hag and Nurse)
Is there really anything wrong with the killers actually being strong and not so weak 3 gens are done by the time their first chase is over?
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If you do the math and look at a whole match, yes, 3.5 seconds are harsh.
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"I dont care about nurse or anyone who plays her"
Let me take away pallets, windows and every exhaustion perk and say "idc it was op" or "just call for a rework".
You do care clearly given you commented on a post about it.
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Could always hear her phasing and it was directional
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Sorry to break it to you but I've encountered MANY survivors who were good enough at juking me I had to go chase someone else. It is possible, you just have to play differently. She had counterplay, she required LOTS OF SKILL, and she never got rewarded for free.
Now we get punished for doing good and extra punished if we miss. Have fun playing the game when no killer is viable and the game becomes even worse of an "hold lmb to win" sim.
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Thats the problem to all games, Developer tend to balance something that majority of players able to play Something this Good. But there will be always some God able to play Something that Marvelous. Force Developer to tone down. Leave the majority doesnt want to use it.
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Like Blizzard with Zenyatta? They nerfed him solely due to ONE single person using him lol.
I agree with that mindset to an extent; when you get into the high elo or any PvP game it's not about skill most of the time, it's about who can abuse the broken mechanics/items/whatever the best.
My best example is hero shooters like Paladins/Overwatch. The meta is whatever instantly kills someone as fast as possible, regardless if that's a fair mechanic or even fun (it's not) it just gets spammed because it's the single most effective way to play.
Not fun. Not fair. Effective.
So in a game like DbD where you're by yourself left to face the sweat squeeze of PvP and you don't have a top tier killer? It's like your playing smash your head against the wall sim. You're having about as much fun and interaction.
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I think the cooldown should only apply when you press m1 so you get punished more when you miss your attacks and it gives survivors more time to get away after the first hit.
Post edited by arslaN on3 -
EVEN THIS IS BETTER THAN WHAT WE GOT.
I bet it didn't take you very long to think of it? And I assume by your icon you play survivor more so you probably don't even use Nurse that much but your suggestion screams "I ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND NURSE SOMEWHAT" as opposed to the entire list of changes the devs rolled out that scream the exact opposite.
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yep most addons are trash now like they were before. thats how they spit on the community.
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I just really want to emphasize this.
They started out by stating THEY DIDN'T WANT THEM TO BE AS UNUSED AND MUSCLE MEMORY ALTERING AS THEY WERE.
And what did they do? Keep the exact same problems. They just shifted them around. It really gets me upset that they say stuff like this and then blatantly do the opposite 5 lines down.
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i mean look what they did to the legion. they have zero clue what they doing. i feel like they just flipping coins to make certain decisions because its easier than thinking.
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They also delayed the update to get it out bug-free, and then released it with bugs anyway. They originally increased the stun for DS to 5 seconds to prevent Enduring countering it, and then remove the counter of Enduring anyway.
This is not the first time the developers contradict themselves, and will surely not be the last time.
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I kind of have to agree with you there.
When they fully bought the rights to this game I was really hoping we'd see more personal changes to the game and less forced ones that don't make much sense.
We've been getting a mix of it since then. Changes like Legion and Nurse don't make sense but stuff like medkit changes are actually beneficial to the game. I just wish we knew what killers the staff played and what elo they're in. Most of the time it feels like they don't play in the high elo where so many problems are present.
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Yeah, I play survivor a lot more but I do play nurse sometimes. Base kit nurse is one of my favourite killers to go against and I think her base kit was mostly fine. I only wanted her fatigue to be slightly longer when she hit someone to give survivors more time to get away.
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Players who had issues with base kit Nurse are the same people that have issues with Spirit. They can't think outside looping.
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I completely agree. Part of what makes Nurse unique is you have to play differently against her. Running in a straight line doesn't work against her (lol it does now but not the point)
I wish we had more killers like her. I can't see the fun in doing the exact same thing over and over despite facing different killers.
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I can agree with that.
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Apparently devs nerfed the recharge time add-ons for Nurse. So new Nurse with add-ons < old Nurse without add-ons. Seems like a truly "slight change".
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Yes I think this is a huge problem we haven't even begun discussing yet. On PTB it was PASSABLE with the addons because of the fatigue recharge bug that was in, but now that it doesn't do that and the cooldown is even LONGER it won't take long before we see how big a problem this slight change is.
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Pretty much this. Playing against the Nurse required you to actually get inside the Nurse's head to juke her. People complaining about "WOW OP DESTROYS ALL SURVIVOR COUNTERPLAY!" do not understand how to mindgame her blinks and instead either run to a loop or simply break LoS and think they should be safe.
The nurse punished predictability and took the power role in chases away from the survivors. They had to capitalize on her mistakes,not the other way around.
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BHVR nipped it in the bud - tired of hearing survivors whine about a killer actually being the power role. My only advice to killer mains is to say your goodbyes to nurse and learn spirit and use her until she's also ruined. I think she's a little better than nurse now and while still far too weak to apply proper map pressure like the old nurse had against SWF but its the best thing you have now. Billy has a lot better map pressure too. Just do what survivors and BHVR wants you to do, let SWF walk out the gates unscathed and say gg.....or be a survivor! Maybe one day the dev team will wake up when there's no killers at high ranks.
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Yes. With base blink distance, charge, and fatigue, 3.5 seconds is extremely punishing. Like, "survivor can hold W all the way across the map" punishing. The add ons were extreme, I'll admit. But this goes too far in the other direction, where the skill ceiling is arguably prohibitive against top tier survivors.
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Yeah map pressure, chase pressure, mind games, having fun. All those things suffer with this change. All that was needed was addon pass, and that's all they said they were doing at first (obviously an attempt to quell the raging storm we have now)
but now we have a much weaker and less fun killer with the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS THEY SAID THEY WOULD FIX BY DOING THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I made a detailed analysis of the addons in a PTB feedback thread, and since ######### nothing changed but making her necessary cooldown addons WORSE after they fixed a bug that made it even viable in the first place, I will just post a list of the addons that are still bad/not going to be used.
The needs work: Bad Man Keepsake, Anxious Gasp, Bad Man's Last Breath, and Campbell's Last Breath. All of these need work. They aren't TERRIBLE but they aren't ever going to be picked over the actual functioning and useful ones.
The Bad/Ugly: White Knit Comb, Dull Bracelet, Pocket Watch, Spasmodic Breath, And Torn Bookmark. These all actively hurt or reduce her power to a stupid degree. The only one of these that are even USABLE is the 3-blink, and only JUST. Any map indoors or with a lot of LOS breaks make this an unusable addon.
TL;DR
Devs said they wanted to do the pass to eliminate muscle-memory changing addons and ones that weren't used, all they did was make her weaker and introduce a few good addons while keeping the SAME EXACT PROBLEM they wanted to change with the pass.
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She feels the same, but a bit more balanced. Props to balancing her without changing muscle memory.
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Are... are you being serious?
THE COOLDOWN LITERALLY AFFECTS YOUR MUSCLE MEMORY. Constantly blinking was a part of that. Now having to wait so you don't screw yourself over by using it 0.01 seconds too early is a HUGE CHANGE TO MUSCLE MEMORY. If they did this but made the cooldown SLOWER (not stopped) while charging then I would've agreed with you.
And lets not forget they said they wanted to remove that stuff from her addons, yet at least 5 still interact with her power in a way that changes muscle memory.
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You can get used to a cooldown relatively quickly, as long as the blink itself feels the same. Give it a few days, she is still the same killer, but less time efficient.
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