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Tunneling vs gen rushing
Comments
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Short: Survivors have to, Killers need to (but it's still there decision)
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Just like killers counter gen rushing by "applying pressure" survivors can counter tunneling by getting good and making the killer regret wasting more time chasing you.
Also, I don't speak for everyone of course but whether or not others are having fun or want to quit playing because of how I played does not concern me what so ever.
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I play Myers a lot, I believe is the only killer I actually perform very well (usually getting 3K/4K regularly) and I never use Ruin, as matter of fact I dont even have it unlocked on the bloodwebs I consider it a "bad" perk.
His problem in Rotten Fields is not his lack of pressure, is that corn screws him up BADLY, you cant stalk through it and you cant hide in it like Ghostface or Pig because he is so tall any decent survivor will see his forehead easily and run away, corn alone denies him of 2 of his 3 strengths (being stealthy and gaining EW).
Also you are right that Myers has very little pressure at the beggining, I always play with him with the idea that at least 1 gen will pop before I can hook someone and 2 before I get 2/3 hooks, he makes it up in the late game if you manage to cluster the gens and patrol them close to EW3, if they gen rush they will always leave the last 4 gens in a cluster unless you are making a lot of mistakes defending them.
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You mean....K1LL RUSH1N6?!
That's my preferred term.
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Ah so here we go with this entitlement stuff again. Survivors doing the objective as fast as possible is completely fine but the killer doing theirs fast isn't. Love how all the red rank survivors who are yellow rank killers try to say what is and isn't valid strategies for killers as if they've ever gone against survivors who can last longer than 15 seconds in a chase. Who cares if the killer is literally incapable of being able to apply pressure to gens due to lack of mobility and map design, that doesn't matter, the killer just has to get good. But don't dare tunnel the survivor or else the whole world screams. The fact is that gen rushing and tunneling are the same. Tunneled survivors need to learn to loop and win chases and use DS.
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I like that the topic starter completely ignore the meaning of word "killer". Killer shouldnt try to kill anyone. Killer must only spread hurt.. :D
BTW, isnt killing one survivor as soon as possible is the only way to pressure survivors who can heal faster than killer can injure them? One way or another tunneling is the only way to get a kill, if survivors do their objective. Some killers can tunnel all 4 survivors, others cant.
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@BenZ0 go into a match vs red rank survivor's with no ruin using a killer that isn't Nurse. Billy, Spirit, or Oni. After you do that comeback and tell us what it was like trying to apply pressure with a non agile killer
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Well I play alot of Legion so I know that pain lul
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Patrolling gens is optional. That's why gatekeeper exists.
o/
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On both sides of this argument people have double standards. Killers should get better at putting pressure and do use excuses a lot, but at the same time a lot of maps are hard to put pressure effectively and survivors don't seem to get that into their heads.
Tunneling is not ok but at the same time if a killer is tunneling the other members of the team should be working on gens and the game should go fine for everyone else. It's really not that big of a deal and I don't think it's worth all the whining survivors are always going on about. Tunneling never goes well for killers and anyone with a brain should know it isn't effective against any group of survivors that isn't brain dead, so killers need to git gud and put pressure.
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"git gud" if only that argument applied to survivors and ruin skillchecks.
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Ok, "Survivor main".
When 2 Survivors are on a gen, the time to repair it is cut in half, without toolboxes or perks, anything of that sort, I could have a game done in 5 minutes.
Do not whine when I tunnel you when you can cut gen times in half just by 2 Survivors just touching a gen together, you make it sound like Killers are bad people for not wanting gens done in almost as soon as the game starts, that's why we run anti gen perks.
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And what if there isn’t a cluster? On big maps ,the chances are low that there will be a cluster of gens. Even if there are, good survivors will run to the nearest loop once they know you are coming.
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true that, often I feel like going mad cos the killer runs after me after I got unhooked then I remember it's the same of me hurrying up to gens or trying to hold them in a loop.
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Gen rushing is most definitely a thing but usually with commodious toolboxes(BNP, Swivel sockets) and prove thyself. Generally doing gens over healing or rescuing. And yeah while I can agree that sometimes it is due to bad killer pressure, sometimes it is also due to the fact that the killer can only be in 1 place at a time and can't feasibly get to certain gens in time because of map design/size. Also sometimes there are areas of the map that are so strong to loop in that you're better letting them go and finding another survivor but if they just run there everytime you chase someone then what do you do? Once again map design.
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Dude if survivors are given a pass for only doing their objective. Then this whole thread is pointless because as the killers job they got to... Kill. The fact the killer has to kill four survivor which any of them can loop a killer for 30-60 easy without being hit and the survivors can get their objective done in less than five minutes when rushing? It's not the killers fault for being unable to deal with four people who can and do everything to stop them from doing their job. Get gud is so stupid to be said over this. Obviously the op and many here are narrow minded and of the sorts to hide under the developers skirt. Enjoy. I switched to survivor because it's so much easier. Holding a button down is nothing compared to actually thinking. I'm sure queues won't be hurt over this one bit. Especially with how accommodating and helpful the community is? Killers have nothing to worry about. Not like survivors make fun of them. Thankfully. And yeah sure killers hate on survivors but there are literally 4 times as many survivors as killers so you guys do it more often. Everyone here id's entitled and it won't get better thinking like the OP. I hope lobby simulator stays fun.
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Why are you chasing one survivor that long?
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Considering I just posted a discussion on how they're the exact same and you posted one saying they're completely different, I'm guessing you don't like me very much.
I don't feel like trying to cut through all this chatter to talk to you.
Discord? Twitter? Instagram? Snapchat? Some kind of DM service to talk directly about this.
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Actually if you spawn on the other side of those it will take you at least thirty seconds it was timed
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It started off a good post until butthurt players got involved. There's absolutely no pleasing everyone and in my opinion I dont think there is a real solution to the gameplay problem(killer v survivor) other than band aid fixes whenever the base gets fed up with something. This game is going to be pissing someone off no matter who you play as.
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Gen rushing isn't even that. It's deliberately ignoring all other objectives (usually unhooking) for the sake of getting the generators done as fast as possible. When the 4 man SWF deathsquads let one of their teammates die so they can do gens, that's genrushing. If you ignore healing others or yourself to get gens done as fast as possible, that's genrushing. Otherwise, if you are healed and there's nothing left to do, what are you going to do? Get on a gen. At that point it isn't genrushing
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Is 60 seconds long? Because thats how long you can hold out in a chase as survivor by litterally just running forward. Assuming you took 20 seconds to find the survivor, thats 3 gens (60% of them) done by the time you hook said survivor.
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If you couldn't have multiple parts being installed on the same gen that would take away one legitimate form of gen rush.
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Just telling you so you understand this, almo literally said in the one thread that killers should tunnel people out of the game. That also will happen due to ruin, you get hooked first, prepare to be out of that game.
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How are killers like Bubba or Clown supposed to apply pressure
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Not that Mr. BannedMan will see this until late, even one DS can lose the game for a killer, and if you don't get saved all game then you got seriously, seriously unlucky.
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Love to see that even developers don't understand their own game.
Why is tunneling annoying? Because you are forcing one person out of the game quickly, this costing them points and a derank, as well as making the game unfun.
Why is genrushing annoying? Because you are forcing one person out of the game quickly, this costing them points and a derank, as well as making the game unfun.
They are exactly the same except that there's far more counters to tunneling than gen rushing.
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There is always a cluster of 3 gens that can be checked in a relatively fast way but you have to identify them right at the start and play around them, try to steer them to those 3 gens so they use the pallets in that area and to stop them for working on them, you cant have 2 or 3 gens pop and then go "ok where is my cluster to defend?".
If they run to the nearest loop you have to ask this yourself "can i down him relatively fast?" if yes keep going, if no stalk all you can to reach near EW3, abandon chase and go back to gens, eventually the answer is going to be "yes, I can down him before he reaches the loop with EW3", also, getting a hit and leaving the chase to check again on gens is an option, Myers has 8 meter TR at EW2 with Monitor, you can get close enough to put them on dying if you are clever on your approach, starting a chase with less than 12 meters distance between you and the survivor is a guarantee hit unless extremely unlucky or the survivor is way better than the killer.
Also use real perks like Bamboozle and Pop instead of Ruin or BBQ, those 2 are useless for Myers against reds and purples (they find the totem in less than 30 seconds or power through it, BBQ is only useful for high mobility killers like Hillbilly, Nurse or Freddy).
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I made an account to respond to this. Gen rushing is not a concrete thing that you can point to, it's a flaw within the game itself. A huge amount of the game's killers have an inability to apply pressure on large maps like Coldwind. Survivors can be in four places at once across a huge space, and if they stack with toolboxes, the amount of time it takes them to finish a gen is almost as little as it takes the killer to reach them from the other side of the map.
Secondly, and here's where my point about it being a game flaw comes in, you can't even apply proper pressure between two gens that are ten feet from each other. Two survivors on each gen. You go to stop one, and the map is large enough that they can drag you away while three others go unhindered. Or, if you try to defend both gens, the moment you turn around your kick will be undone.
Most of the maps are heavily survivor sided. The killer has to rely on the survivors making dumb mistakes in order to complete their objective. Meanwhile, the killer can make zero mistakes whatsoever and still lose because of the physical inability to control four people at once on most killers. I'd honestly like to know how one expects Ghostface to cause proper map pressure on Coldwind farm or the Macmillan estate. A survivor's greatest assets should be stealth and supporting each other, not the solo ability to waste a killer's time for several minutes with an near infinite loop on a massive map.
Do you seriously play the game, as a community manager, and think nothing's wrong with the core gameplay? I love CM's that are involved with the player base, but what I see here is mostly people pointing out something that needs addressing, and being told that actually it's fine and doesn't exist. Basically "I disagree so overruled". There's such a major disconnect. Like being told that 80% of killers use ruin so that they can secure a useless medal, rather than 80% of killers using ruin so that they can have any semblance of gen control.
Over a thousand hours in this game, and I can truly say that it hasn't really evolved, just gotten more content. Take a break on the chapters and run some polls to fix what you have.
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The issue is that because of a number of killers lacking movement ability, paired with family large distances needed, means that often the best way to get pressure is to kill a survivor off asap while possible. Such as if you see two survivors, both hurt, but ones on death hook, it would be simply dumb to go after the other.
Killing one survivor chops survivor efficiency by 25-33%. It's just how the game is made, and the only real fix would require Devs to make a change of some kind that would reward killers for spreading the pain. Maybe as a random thought, injured survivors repair slower, incentivising healing up more, which then would mean a killer who spreads the pain would be rewarded with time? Idk, any other ideas that would reward a killer for spreading the pain?
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Yes, then it is also fair to say gen rushing is a thing because survivors objective is to survive, help their teammates, get chased, AND do gens. So yeah, gen rushing is a thing
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As a hybrid player I've experienced both ends of the ordeals, some maps have way too many safe loops that a survivor can circle until a gen r 2 is done b4 they get downed no matter if u break every pallet they throw down r not. I noticed several people saying whoever was the killer just had bad gen patrol, well then it could be said that a survivor who gets caught should of hide better. Gen rushing sucks for killers. At the same time tunneling sucks for a survivor because once ur caught once ur pretty much done. The main difference is your team can get alot of gens done if a killer tunnels. A killer can sometimes feel helpless watching like 3 gens pop at once when u start chasing one dude. It's like being trapped underwater with handcuffs on or being trapped underwater but can swim around. Either way ur still trapped. They're both strategies that can work well if done right but the other side will hate u for it.
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No one cares.
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Rank 9 and Console
Otz just faced horrid survs, that big guy strokehimself against the gen for like 2 seconds. Find some more bad replays mate, to keep laughing.
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I think it is. It takes 80 seconds to do a gen, or so ive been told. If three people are working on 3 seperate gens, thats about 3 gens in 1 min
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4 engineer toolboses with brand new parts w/ prove thyself disagrees.
It's like bringing a mori in a way, it gives you a massive advantage over your standard chances.
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Do you think they played poorly or am I good? Ill give you the answer, they were baddies. The game MUST be balanced around the best, not the "fine". If I were against ranks 1 I woulda get rekted, prolly 1-2 kills.
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Gen Rushing: Survivor Objective
Tunneling: Killer Objective
. . .
Only difference is Killers can be punished for tunneling with DS.
Survivors can't be directly punished for rushing gens.
- Getting hit by NOED isn't a punishment for rushing gens, it's an oversight.
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Mori's and Toolboxes both turn both of those problems up to 11 though.
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Too True.
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To answer your question, on killer he just slugs people at the start with deerstalker for "pressure", meaning he goes against absolute potatoes and hasn't experienced a game against proper red rankers.
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Tunneling is
a) absolutely ok
b) very efficient
A great way to put pressure on the survivors by taking one of them out of the game as fast as possible.
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Because any proper red rank survivor can easily loop you for that long or longer depending on what map you're on, not to mention you have the travel time of the killer slapped on before that
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A genrush does exist I had it happen in my last game where I spawned on the other side of the map so a gen got done before I could make it there then I chase one the other three run off and get three gens before I could get to another gen that leaves me with what one gen left in a single chase how is that even supposed to be winnable
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If the killer initiates a chase with a survivor on one side of the temple map with relative success, best believe if there are survivors on the opposite end either each or together repairing, gens are gonna fly, what are you even saying... smh..
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So... we're calling context? What killer, with what addons? Perks? Mori's? What rank? What playform? Nice argument... Temple map...
I gave numbers and normal behaviour, go to polls and participate with your argument on gen ruishing, it's 50% 50% on all ranks right now
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So... you're telling me a 2k is getting wrecked...? Hmmm
Post edited by Carlosylu on0 -
Almost never you'll get to play against this... Generalizing to change something that barely happens is really subjective mate...
Check 4 men squad SWF appearance ratio stats for any platform... Now add the variables you just called out...
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So... the problem in your argument are the killers, not the gen rush... point made...
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Ok... ONLY 1 gen made by 4 survivors in less time than the time it took you to get there SUPPOSING they found a 4 men gen as soon as the match started... Wanna place more specific non common facts there? Ranks, specific killer, addons, mori, offerings?
Post edited by Carlosylu on0
