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A CHALLENGE to Anyone Complaining about Billy
(EDIT: amended a few requirements to make the challenge more approachable)
Record and post at least 10 matches on YouTube.
The rules are simple:
- The gameplay must be your own. You cannot use anyone else's. It must be you playing.
- You must play as the Hillbilly. You cannot play any other Killer and you cannot play Survivor.
- You cannot use Addons of any kind.
- You cannot use Offerings of any kind.
- You cannot use any Perks.
- You must attempt to use the chainsaw to down Survivors whenever possible and you must always try to use the chainsaw first.
- You must kill all four Survivors every match.
- You cannot disconnect from a match, regardless of map or if you're losing.
The purpose of this experiment is simple: you will test, for yourself, whether or not Billy is "broken", "unbalanced" or "unfair" by relying solely on Billy's Power.
If Billy's Power is truly broken, then you should be able to easily 4k every single match regardless of map, whether or not you're up against adept Survivors or any other factor besides the Power alone.
Looking forward to seeing the results.
Comments
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Survivor equivalent
The rules are simple:
- The gameplay must be your own. You cannot use anyone else's. It must be you playing.
- You must play as Dwelf. You cannot play any Killer and you cannot play any other Survivor.
- You cannot use Items of any kind.
- You cannot use Offerings of any kind.
- You cannot use any Perks.
- You cannot interact with lockers, totems or whatever else isn't a gen.
- You can only do gens. Don't run if the killer comes. Gens ONLY.
- You must escape with all four Survivors every match.
- You cannot disconnect from a match, regardless of map or if you're losing.
If Gen rush is truly broken, then you should be able to easily escape every single match regardless of map, whether or not you're up against adept Killerss or any other factor besides the genspeed alone.
Looking forward to seeing the results
(Not trying to make a statement other then how silly that challenge sounds)
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The complaints are saying that Billy's power is broken, that he can easily chainsaw Survivors whenever - and wherever - they may be, that he is capable of pressuring two people on different sides of the board and other such things.
All I'm saying, is if any of it is true then you should be able to consistently kill all four Survivors just by using the Billy's Power.
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I got a 4k in literally 2 minutes and I don't even play him like that 😭😂 he deff is broken needs to have a cool down on that good ole chainsaw running..
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It's impossible to kill all 4 survivors using only your power on pretty much any killer that can one hit down(except Myers). There's a very simple reason to this. If a survivor KNOWS you're only using your power, which isn't hard to guess, then they will know how to abuse that fact. Killers are not balanced around only their powers. You're basically telling people to use less than 25% of a killer, since you're also taking addons out of the equation. A Killer is comprised of Perks, Addons, Power, Basic Attacks/grabs. You're taking out 3 of those(4 if you count grabs in with basic attacks). You could run into a survivor who jumped in a locker and never left and you'd be stuck. You're asking people to play in an inefficient manner and setting unrealistic goals. Keep in mind, I've said nothing about Billy. I just think you're using an absurd standard when it comes to balance.
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Then you wouldn't mind doing it 49 more times and posting it on YouTube?
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If a Power is broken then it should be OP at base - without any need for enhancements of any kind.
If a Power is OP, then you should be able to completely win just by using it.
The complainers are claiming that there is no counterplay to the chainsaw, as well. Then you shouldn't worry about counterplay, if it doesn't exist.
They're saying that it very much is possible to win just by using the chainsaw, so I'm just asking them to prove it.
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I see one post about Billy needing nerfs, and in that post they mention nothing about only using his power.
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Introducing a challenge where a Killer is made as weak as possible to prove something is really stupid. Sure nearly nobody will perform good with that. That is like talking about playing Nurse without blinking or playing Spirit without phasewalking. Or Huntress without throwing Hatchets.
Clearly every Killer would perform bad when limited like this.
And well, the most things about Billy are not his Basekit, but his Add Ons, mainly Instasaw. Because it is indeed a big difference in Chargetime, and really quite easy to play him with Primer Bulb and Tuning Guide.
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I thought his chainsaw is "broken", how would it weaken the Killer by using it?
The people who complain about Billy aren't just talking about InstaSaw - they're saying Billy is broken at base.
All I'm asking for, is for people to indeed use Billy at base and use his Power. Why is that unreasonable? I thought his Power is their problem, I thought it was "OP".
...If you have an OP weapon, you need nothing else to win, right?
Gosh, it's almost like, I dunno, it's unreasonable to expect anyone to be able to do it...
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Marth's Depip Squad kinda did that already, besides playing with Dwelf 🤣.
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Also, this is exactly the opposite of asking anyone to play Nurse wihtout Blinking - this is asking you to play by ONLY Blinking. Basically, by spamming the Power.
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Not nececarly saying you're wrong. Just that you went overboard with the challenge
If anything that you have to put that many restraints before you can say Billy's power isn't broken kinda does the oppesite of what you want to show
Most people wouldn't be able to do 50 4k matches without m1's alone. All the other restraints were kinda unnecacery
Again not nececarly saying Billy is broken or anything. Just saying that putting that many restraints just makes it show that your not very certain of your case
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It is unreasonable, because Billy cannot chainsaw certain things. A survivor could hide in a locker all game. How would you kill them with your power without being able to pull them out? In addition, Billy AT BASE would be including his M1 hits, grabs, etc, because AT BASE that is Billy. Base means no addons(doesn't even mean no perks), it doesn't mean "do absolutely nothing but use chainsaws".
That person's survivor equivalent is the exact same ridiculous argument. If gen speed is broken, you shouldn't need to worry about looping the killer because it's OP right? So if the killer comes you just let him hook you, and then everyone else has to ignore you and keep doing gens, and you'll all 4 get out.
I believe they DID loop the killers, and that was over 2 years ago that the LAST video was posted iirc. A lot has changed.
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The insane constraints were there so that people wouldn't just link us to videos of them M1'ing everyone or using InstaSaw + Mori every match and going "see!? it's totally broken!"
What would you suggest, instead?
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Ok, but it's the chainsaw that people are saying is what's broken - not his stellar M1 stats or locker-grabbing skills. I just don't want people sending me videos of them basically M1'ining to victory or winning because some clown went in a locker in front of them (without DS, that is) and then they just had the other three people hook-bombing themselves to death, you know?
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Honestly. No offerings and no M1
The best Billy players could probably pull this of. But most people would struggle really hard if survivors catch on you never m1. Even with instasaw
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What a ridiculous requirement. "you need to 4k every single match with no add ons, perks, grabs or M1 hits otherwise this thing is not OP"
That's not how balance works. That's not what dictates what is overpowered.
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Ok, how about "grabs and M1 allowed"? No Addons and no Perks like Devour Hope or NOED or things like that.
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Again, that's like saying to show videos of people sitting at gens and never leaving even when the killer comes because it's OP and they should be able to make a 4 escape by just doing that, when you absolutely know it can't be done. There are times you have to M1, and Billy's power is not ONLY for chainsaw hits. It allows him basically the ability to Freddy Teleport to gens, but faster with no tell(aside from the chainsaw sound, but that's pretty much global so you don't know if he's coming to your gen), as well as one hit down, and if the exit gates are right across from each other, it's gonna be really damn hard to get out until he downs someone and picks them up, but he could just down someone, and not pick them up and let everyone kill themselves trying to get the gates open. I'm not saying he's OP, but his power helps him in more ways than one hit downing a survivor. Also, you said 50 matches. Every match will not be survivors being a bunch of idiots and jumping in lockers in front of the killer/etc, and I think it's pretty obvious that you're giving ridiculous requirements. A killer consists of M1s, their power, addons, grabs, and perks. Just like a survivor consists of items, addons, vaulting/throwing pallets/doing generators/hiding in lockers, and perks.
A power can be OP without it being the only thing the killer uses. Spirit's tracking is top notch, and her power is the reason for that, but you can't ONLY use her power, or you'd never get any downs. It's also used for map traversal which is quite nice, and she used to be able to bump into survivors and get information just for that, making it really easy to find survivors at generators and get gen grabs, and many other things. Would it be fair to say "Only phase all game, don't M1, and if you get a 4k, then her bumping into survivors is too strong"?
Billy's chainsaw is multi use. It has a lot of scenarios that make it useful, not only for it's 1 hit down capabilities, but again, I didn't say he was OP, just that you're basically creating a scenario that doesn't determine balance at all.
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I amended the challenge a bit to make it more approachable. Reduced the required number of matches from 50 to 10 to make it less daunting, also amended the requirement for Chainsaw Only to more like Chainsaw Preferred.
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You know, an InstaSaw build but where you can only use the chainsaw could be a thing, too... Hmmm...
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The difference between Billy and Spirit is that Spirit has a cooldown on her power and Billy can chainsaw whenever he pleases. Billy is the only killer in the game (besides Leatherface) that doesn’t have a cooldown or has to recharge their power.
I agree that sometimes it is easier to just get the M1 hit but most players who are good at Billy go strictly for chainsaw hits and it’s not that hard if you’re good with him.
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But why no add ons? why even no NOED? these things ARE in the game and people are taking them.Nobody knows what a Billy is like with no add ons and no perks because nobody ever sees one.
He does have an M1 so there is no point disabling that as if Billy is struggling to hit a good survivor he can always fall back on M1. In addition if he's getting looped he can bring some combination of enduring/spirit fury/bamboozle which a lot of Billys do.
He can hook a survivor and then BBQ across the map and appear on top of another and start swinging instadown after instadown after instadown with little cooldown until he gets the survivor. I know some survivors say BBQ needs a nerf and I disagree, it's fine and not OP at all. However Hillbilly (and old Nurse) is the only killer where I would say BBQ feels OP because of how quickly he can reach that survivor and then he can just keep swinging instadowns at them, Likewise Tinkerer is a junk perk however there's one killer it is good on - Hillbilly. My point is there are a good number of perks which become far more useful on Hillbilly than any other killer, almost as if the problem lies with Hillbilly himself and not the perks, No recent killer has ever been designed with that ability to cross the map the way Hillbilly can and then having unlimited instadowns on top.
He can instadown a survivor with his instasaw and then turn around and blast any others in the area with Infectious Fright.
At the moment many bring Ruin to slow the game down. It's not uncommon for Hillbilly to zoom across the map from the start, land on a survivor out of position and then have them instadowned all within the first 15 seconds of the game before the survivors have even got their first skillcheck. Then on top of that if you somehow get past a Hillbilly with instasaw and Ruin, a number have NOED at the end as a crutch to fall back on.
My point is that no killer exists in a vacuum. Anyone can pick Hillbilly and any number of these builds. This is kind of the problem as all of this stacks and it's very easy to pick instasaw Hillbilly with Ruin and NOED and win any game with skill taking a backseat. I almost feel like in a way Hillbilly holds back the other killers, as certain things can't be buffed or have to be nerfed because of him.
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I can see some billy-haters are itching for him to have a massive nerf, aka have his chainsaw have a significant cool-down.
This is coming from someone who is not very good with billy...I used to be alright, then I just lost it.
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You sure type a lot.
Care to display your expertise in the form of your recorded gameplay videos?
I'd like to see 10 4k's as Billy, please. From everything you've written, it shouldn't be a problem.
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And this is why we can't have rational debate. It's often just dismissive, almost trolling comments. "show me 10 4kz in a row or (insert thing) is not OP."
Thankfully the DBD balance team doesn't seem to operate under the same criteria.
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That doesn't mean ######### my dude, I've had 4K games with hag end in 3 minutes, on old Haddonfield, not mint rag. He doesn't need a nerf just because you played him that one time.
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Yep, couldn't agree more.
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What? That's the opposite of what he was saying.... In fact, you're being disingenuous because you know if you were to say to only use nurse blink attacks or Spirit Phase walk attack, you'd actually just be playing Nurse or Spirit, so to continue making your argument of false equivalency without making it look like you have no idea what you're talking about you turned it the other way.
This guy's idea is flawed, but I get where it comes from. Billy doesn't really need a nerf, he's not that far out of spectrum according to stats from where he should be (and y'all love bringing in the stats that support your argument when looked at in a vacuum)
If anything, Freddy should be nerfed, maybe the spirit again too... But that's just according to Y'alls rules, I'm just a killer main living in you're world at this point so ######### do I know.
Imagine being a nurse player that doesn't almost always use Blink attack 🙄
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Psssh don't even talk about Billy, it's obvious you touched him 2 or 3 times and never again if you think hillbilly can literally chainsaw good survivors all game. He's pretty easy to loop if that's all he does
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Lots of talk.
All I asked is for you to record 10 matches of you playing Billy, yourselves.
Put your money where your mouth is.
You're saying Billy is broken, you're saying he is OP, you're saying he can always chainsaw whenever he pleases.
Well, show us.
....Because I have to tell you, as a Billy Main who has been playing since 2016 - and normally plays with no Addons - I don't feel that powerful. I just thought maybe you knew something I didn't, maybe you discovered some skill I havent - or maybe I'm just bad and you're gods.
I just want players to produce evidence as to the power level of the character when using his power.
It really isn't a big ask. Recording and uploading your gameplay to YouTube is completely free.
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I can talk about whatever I damn well please. You don’t know who I play or even who I am. Maybe you should stop throwing around assumptions.
I don’t play Billy because I don’t like him and he takes a bit of mechanical skill to use and I don’t wanna put in the effort to play a killer I already don’t like.
I’ve seen players who are good at Billy that typically like to chainsaw. If they HAVE to then they’ll M1 but I’ve seen some pretty good Billy players who know exactly where and how to curve the chainsaw. A skilled Billy vs skilled survivors is a pretty even match.
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I'd like to see 10 recorded matches of a skilled Billy vs skilled Survivors, please.
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It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Billy doesn’t have a cooldown and can chainsaw whenever he wants and wherever he wants. He isn’t limited by a cooldown like Spirit or has to recharge his power like Huntress.
That’s not me saying that he is 100% always going to be able to chainsaw a survivor. He just doesn’t have to wait for a cooldown like other killers do :/
He isn’t a broken killer by far.
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BBQ has a plethora of counters you could use to avoid getting found by a Billy. So it's not OP even on him.
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Show me 10 matches of you chainsawing "whenever and wherever" you want.
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Battleguy? Scott Jund? Zubatlel? Umbra? All of those players have played Billy against skilled survivors.
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Show me your matches.
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What do I have to prove to you? I don’t have anything to prove to you when there are tons of videos of skilled Billy players.
I never claimed I was good at Billy. I don’t play him nor do I have the desire to play him. My opinions are formed from what I’ve seen from others.
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If you aren't saying he's broken, why do you think he needs a cool down nerf? Not every killer had to be the same or have the same limitations. It's like you said, you have to be good with him in order to do well, sounds like balance to me
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Again...you’re making assumptions. Point out when I said “Billy needs a cooldown nerf.” I never said that. You’re putting words in my words.
I stated that Billy and Leatherface were the only killers who do NOT have a power cooldown or have to recharge their power which is a fact. The word “nerf” never came from me.
Yeah...not every killer needs the same limitations but that doesn’t stop people from complaining. People complained about Spirit having zero feedback during a chase. People complained about Nurse ignoring all survivor defenses. People complain about Billy having no power recharge. Guess what? Nurse still ignores all survivor defenses and Spirit still provides zero feedback in a chase. Billy will most likely still have no power recharge when they rework his add-ons.
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If Billy is broken you don't need to be good with him, you just need to press and hold M2.
This is what you young fellas don't seem to understand, something an old gamer can tell you (if you could just help me into this chair, young man, and make me a nice warm cup of tea...): if something is OP, it's OP because it doesn't matter who plays it - it's just OP. There's nothing that the other side can do and it isn't dependent on skill level.
It's broken because it's broken at the core. It doesn't matter if you put it in the hands of an actual Adeptus Astartes with 8 trillion hours in the game or if you have your youngest sibling try it out while still teaching them the Alphabet or how a cow goes.
I'm not asking you to prove something in the chest-beating-macho-sense - I'm asking to see empirical evidence.
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Billy isn’t broken nor is he OP. You have to be somewhat good with Billy to do well against good survivors because he requires some mechanical skills because the chainsaw is not easy to manage.
Here is what I am saying...Billy has zero power recharge. He can rev his chainsaw and threaten a survivor at a pallet loop and he doesn’t have to wait for any length of time before revving his chainsaw again. Huntress can run out of hatchets. Nurse has to wait for her blinks to recharge. Spirit has to wait for her power to come back. Billy just has to rev his chainsaw after breaking the pallet.
I’m not trying to say Billy can always use his chainsaw to down survivors and get free hits. Just that he has no cooldown or recharge and can instantly use it again unlike other killers who have to wait for their power to come back.
I only think Billy is broken with Instasaw add-ons.
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I hear you.
The problem is that a recharge mechanic would actually make him unplayable. There are so many things in this game that are basically balanced as if on the tip of a tightrope - nudge them one way or another and you completely break them.
If you had a recharge mechanic on Billy and therefore forced players to basically use his power only once every X seconds, he would actually be miserable to play.
Since you don't play Billy yourself, you also probably never noticed that Billy does, in fact, have a recharge mechanic to his power already. There's a hidden cooldown effect when you use your chainsaw during which a Billy can barely move and cannot actually interact with anything.
This recharge effect is actually a lot more significant than people think. I've had an injured Survivor escape me because I chainsaw dashed towards him only to be forced to stop, and by the time my cooldown ended and I could M1 again, he already made it to a pallet and threw it down on me.
This happens about 2-3 times every single Billy match.
Every single Billy match (where you play Billy) you feel that cooldown.
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Oh, alright then. My bad
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You wouldn't mind doing 10 matches as Billy with the strongest Addons you can think of?
Only conditions are that you must 4k every match, you cannot use Perks or Offerings and you have to do it chainsaw only. You can use instasaw, though.
What do you say?
I mean, if you think it's busted then it should be no problem and if it's so powerful it shouldn't be like a punishment or anything, it'd be a lot of fun for you, right?
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That's not really a proper test. Billy is strong if you know how to play him. I don't, and would get wrecked. I think all the Billy OP posts are utter nonsense.
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Without trying to hurt your ego,this isn't a way to balance things. Imagine keys and nurse,they all need some add-ons and perks to be good. What you suggest is "do the impossible". Even if we don't do the impossible with, for example, keys, and if neither me or my teammates escape each match, it doesn't mean anything. Keys are still broken. Hope I'm understood.
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It's a proper test because the people who complain about him are talking as if his Power is completely OP.
If something is OP, it's just OP. It doesn't matter what your skill level is - in fact, it's more blatantly OP when even a novice player can use it and easily defeat a more experienced player. That's exactly how you can demonstrate that something is busted.
My aim is to demonstrate whether or not it's actually OP. To that end, I ask various people (presumably of varying skill levels) to do the challenge.
If Billy is OP then we will see a consistent majority of 4k's as long as people are using the chainsaw.
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"Don't run if the killer is coming"
I don't see the comparison here. Gen rushing is about doing gens while making killer waste time, not being a easy hook magnet.
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