Dev's Say They Expect Generators Not To Last In The First 4 Minutes
This was just said in the Livestream, my concern is that it's the lack of early game pressure for most killers is what is causing problems with the Gatekeeper emblem, and scoring. If the developers expect 1-2 generators to be repaired in the first 4 minutes, why does that penalize the Killer in the Gatekeeper emblem?
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You’re framing it wrong. Gatekeeper rewards killers who can keep more generators unfinished.
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They said it on the forums as well. Something along the lines of "We expect generators to go fast early... the more people the killer kills and the longer the game goes, the more in favor the game is to the killer."
Unfortunately, the early game is the most important, so if you're a killer without any mobility, then tough luck. The game is designed to work against you.
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they also said that there is a memorandum (sorry I couldn't remember the exact word they used) to create maps that aren't too big, and I suppose to rework those that currently are accordingly.
If that is the case I can accept the statement you are talking about - yeah, early game will be much shorter but at the same time it will be more difficult for survivors to go through the mid game, which is arguably the most interactive part of the game anyway.
Plus once they will nerf toolboxes I expect the game to become a bit slower (well, that's depending on how they'll nerf those, though).
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Gatekeeper has been changed
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This actually goes hand in hand with the recent Gatekeeper change. Previously it was very punishing if you let one or two generators go early on. Now, it's not the end of the world if a few go off early as long as you recover and keep the match going afterwards. We made sure to keep Gatekeeper in mind when changing Ruin.
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If they put as much time and effort into fixing maps as Ethan does painting his nails, this game would be heaven.
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you may not use them, but there are 4 survivors in a game ;).
As far as the very slow rework on maps.. I can't disagree with that, but still, that's what we're stuck with. I suggested in the past to disable from the pick rotation certain maps before their rework, since it's not like we lack variety right now, and I still think it could be a perfectly fine band-aid for the time being.
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@ toolboxes - yeah, and now imagine those players that have toolboxes and hit great skill checks. I honestly don't understand what you are trying to say, that toolboxes are not a problem, because game goes fast anyway? May be, but at least remove / fix something little, instead of nothing, no?
@ map rework - that's not a band-aid, that's the fix, but apparently it takes time. Point is: let's assume that it is possible to rework everything wrong with the maps in a couple of months. Well, evidence is that BHVR is not able to do it, they need more time, so what else is there?
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one to two in 4 minutes?
mine did 4 in roughly 5 and a half minutes!
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so once again killers needs to learn everything and be ultra sweaty and survivors just dumb potatoes running around and bullying killer great..
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I see your point, but it's a bit silly that in the same post you say that by nerfing toolboxes you can alleviate the problem, but not fix it, while at the same time stating that changing window layout of certain maps is better than nothing.
Why do you have two very different opinions of the same concept? Especially considering that the big issue is how big maps are (but you are absolutely right, windows and pallets are a component as well), which remains basically unaffected by window relocation, while a toolbox nerf at least addresses the exact issue: gen speed.
P.S. I use Unity, not Unreal, but I'm fairly sure that things work similarly so what I would like to say is: refrain from saying things like "it takes 5 minutes to close a window", because it doesn't, not from a design point of view, not from a technical point of view. We as players can and should be vocal on what we want to see changed, but let's be humble and admit that we don't know what goes on behind the scenes.
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Can you elaborate on that update though, it's confusing because it doesn't sound like it impacts a lot on the early game as opposed to the endgame.
Gatekeeper Emblem: Flattened score value of all remaining generators so now all generators are worth the same amount (1 point per minute) regardless of the duration that they remain in the match. Also added an additional score for both gate remaining unopened at the end of the match.
Like with the slow killers walking across the map at the start of the match. 1-2 generators can (and do) explode in the first 40-80 seconds of the match. By taking that update by word you would get 0-2 points for either of those generators, and then only 3 points per minute the rest of the match - it doesn't sound like much of a difference from before at all. How many points do you get for the doors? Sorry i'm not trying to nit-pick, but just confused.
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Also since the update I do more often get Silver Gatekeeper - which is good, so i'm seeing the update is working as intended, but I Rarely go over that, which I imagine is because the first 2 generators go so quickly, and the Killer having very little ability to do anything about it. Even when I play Legion. Big maps are still a nightmare.
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I won't go into extensive details, there's a lot of math, but it's the combination of three things:
1: It's calculated differently, with less emphasis on keeping generators up longer.
2: There's no longer a bonus for the number of generators remaining at the end of the match.
3: There's a large bonuses if the gates are closed at the end of the match.
So the short version is, it's less focused on keeping as many generators up as long as possible.
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The whole emblem system is terribly flawed, the amount of matches where I get 3 to 4 kills and still barely safety (sometimes even depip) is insane. Of course meanwhile it's extremely easy for survivors to get massive points and rank up.
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I still disagree with the 5 minutes thing, but I don't want to indulge too much into it, instead I would like to compliment you for your art project, it looks very cool!
..you should remove a window though! :P
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it should take exactly 16 hours, don't worry :D
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So if you play how survivors expect you to and hook everyone 3 times, that's one hook every 20 seconds to get a 4k by the time the match is done. Eat my ass 😂😂😂😂😂
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it's not always about the emblem.. killers want long matches so we can have a decent amount of chases (more than 3 before EGC).
"as long as you recover" ... why even have that caveat? you're saying that like playing killer has an immediate, known disadvantage.
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Yeah even I find chases fun - as both Survivor and Killer, it's probably the most engaging part of the game. However my larger concern is that the scoring system rewards players for playing well first.
I see it as when the scoring system is more balanced, and you pip when you normally get 2 or more sac's/kills, as the objective is described. Then it would be easier to balance parts of the game like chases, and more interaction between killers and survivors.
Right now when I play, so by my own observations the only emblem I have trouble with is the Gatekeeper emblem, because as Killer I play in a playstyle where I will sacrifice generators to ensure another hook, or to take out a Survivor entirely. When there is 5 generators left in the trial with 3 survivors it becomes a lot easier to keep survivors off generators. Though if the game starts and I lose 2 gens before I even walk to the other side of the map, that's less hooks I have at that point, and therefore less ability to get that 3 man to actually survive the mid to late game.
I hope I described that right. TL:DR. Fixing gatekeeper emblem. I believe, will lead to an easier time fixing other parts of the game.
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But the "recovery" is an intended flow for the game. Killer starts at a disadvantage because they have too many objectives to protect, but get more powerful as matches reach the end, since they have a smaller area to protect, and usually less survivors to worry about. It is natural, even healthy for the game, for the first 2 generators to go relatively quickly. In fact, if the first 4 minutes of a match goes by and no generators are done... hell even only 1 generator, the survivors are probably going to lose. 4 minutes is an eternity in a match, and killers snowball harder as matches progress.
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But its possible for the surviors to get as little as a few hundred gotta not just look at the upside.
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Killers always bitching about how survivors are catered to but dont see things like the upcomming toolbox nerf at all related to the unrelenting, LITERALLY never ending bitching that is in all its entirety of ever killer main on this forum. As of the most recent stats (which probably have swayed alittle bit since then, i dont know if its been updated) killers have been averaging at MINIMUM 2 kills per game. And these mother fuckêrs start SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS. DEMANDING that the game made to be more favorable for them. Like if you want to talk about the difficulty of pipping or how there may be some survivor based loops which are completely debatable. But god the just LITERAL, not even an exaggeration, UNENDING aimless pointless bítch that survivors are just "privleged" jesus christ man, if people want to gather data and make a legitament arguement to contend against survivors, i get it, i want that. I DESPERATELY LONG FOR IT. Like you have no idea how bad i want that, but you guys wonder why the devs dont listen despite 80 percent of the posts here from killers (which is funny cause i never see survivor mains in here hardly. So the embodiment of of this forum is represented by killer mains bítching with no notable evidence aside from "this guy said this on a forum i read that is partially misinterpretted") crying for survivor nerfs and killer buffs. NOT EVEN GIVING SUGGESTIONS. Like asking for an improvment is one thing but raging and crying and screaming that something NEEDS to happen but giving nothing for ideas that are actually balanced and me as a person who loves playing both sides and who has what i consider a fairly nuetral perspective and understands alot of the underlying issues (which beleive it or not isnt just "survivors are cattered to") like the monster amount of bugs, retative gameplay and such, I want to converse and debate and theorize but theres nothing to debate with apes screaming about how unfair theyre being treated. I mean seriously, like i said. This is how killer mains look to the rest of the world and you arent going to get any type of changes by just screaming louder and crying more tears. You just wont, im not trying to discourage you, as i feel ive shown, i want talk and debate these things but you just cant keep crying and expecting people to listen.
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While we certainly appreciate the thought that was clearly put into this change, there is the reality of the matter.
Gens are impossible to control on some maps. Rotten Fields with Legion, for example. What am I supposed to do? There is no way I can pressure the Survivors enough. Additionally, on maps with a lot of pallets, Blood Lodge for example, one committed chase will cost you three gens. There aren't any real dead areas on most maps.
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I dont worry about gen pressure. The more they repair, the harder it gets for them. I like to keep them away from 3 that are closest together. Just played a game in fact they finished all gens and i still got 4k.
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Bottom line this is gonna be a bumpy ride for everyone because this game is unbalanced to heck and they fail to see it so..... Just waiting for this game to die
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I love the Ruin being changed but now when i play trapper its sooooo ######### brutal with his setup time =/
OG daddy needs a buff!!!
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They basically said since there's nothing you can do about those two generators on the far end of the map, just let them go.
Essentially giving yourself a 2 gen handicap giving yourself a 7 minute game with no hope of doing well without the survivors deliberately getting downed to farm points from each other.
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Why is there only a vote up option? Boo
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Roblox is looking pretty good right about now.
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Late game perk btw...
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And that's the exact problem. (Love your vids btw.)
Lots of maps have too many OP windows (this coming from me a survivor player primarily). But them saying that is just straight up disrespectful to anyone playing the game. Bc the maps are tile based, couldn't they remove tiles around the perimeter of the map (as in a 25x25 tile map would be a 24x24 etc) and just squeeze everything in? Sure it could possibly open up more stupid loops, but map size in general is the largest issue IMO.
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Mt first match was a rank 3 match where I git steamrolled by gens even with 2 hooks in the first 2 minutes. I got a 4k simply because a jake and nia threw the game by running into the basement while being chased by a tier 3 Micheal.
Safety pipped on a 4k losing 0 points for being near the hook.
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My eyes needed a glass of water after reading this .
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I play as hag in Lerys, and 2 gens got done when i haven't even set all my traps yet.
It's unfair for these type of killers as they lost 2 gens before even starting the game
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The sooner the devs get off their high horse and address the blatantly flawed early game, the better for all of us.
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You guys are acting like the infinite window is death to a killer winning the game. tlThere are always things you can do to stop the window loop. A trap, a hex, the clown throws a bottle, the window loop is useless if the killer is the nurse or the spirit. Plus a survivor can only go through it three times before the window is closed. And if the killer runs bamboozle the survivor can only go through it once. There are things you can do to stop the window loop. Okay so you close up that infinite window now the survivors have all of the jungle Gyms to utilize. Same scenario. Are we going to take out the jungle Gyms next? How about if we just take out all of the structures and have the survivors running through Forest and corn fields? Would that make it easier for you guys?
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You guys are acting like Ruin is death to a survivor winning the game. There are always things you can do to stop Ruin ;^)
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So, basically, killers' main focus should be on holding down a 3-gen strat... after reworking the killer known to be the king of the 3-gen strat.
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For 7 minutes or more - yes.
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Do you not read read the many suggestions given on all these forums? And please dont act like killers are this all powerful role in the game with everything going in their favor. We all know the truth that survivors have been and most likely always will be stronger than killers. Also referencing the stats is pointless since the devs acknowledged that their inaccurate. Nearly all survivor nerds pale in comparison to the killer ones as killers have more to do than survivors with most things stacked against them ie. long loops, overabundance of pallets and 4 survivors that can pump out gens in 6 minutes
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I really hope that's not an exact quote. "The more people the killer kills" kind of implies that they want you to tunnel to get kills early so you can actually win.
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The "first four minutes" like most games even last 5 lol..
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To be honest ruin was the only gen perk needed and punished the new or crappy players and rewarded the smart\lucky survivors plus now thrilling tremors and other perk combos with ruin can happen so I actually enjoy the change as both killer and survivor and it's still kinda luck for killers because if most people escape red ranks won't be as skilled if you have luck and it makes killers bring more troll perks which sucks like Franklin and no ed but gens will pop quicker.
Note I don't use Franklin or no ed unless challenge required I hate them as survivor and ######### Franklins should be changed no ed is fine
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This entirely depends on the killer and the player. I went up against some survivors who, judging from their ranks new how to play the game and get gens done. To their disadvantage I was running surveillance so as gens regressed with ruin I knew where they were when they went to work on it. A killer with no ruin is screwed but while ruin is active its a powerful tool with the right perks to accompany it. I ended that game with three kills and one hatch escape so I wouldn't take that thought to heavily.
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I just wanted to say, your map looks really nice.
But I guess she would be really stay as art, or? Can't imagine that a pc could run a map like that, without being a NASA system :D.
In one of my first maps, I had make a map for a long gone HalfLife 1 mod (VampireSlayer) and I can remember how I needed to cut 70-80% of my work out, because the map was actual to big for the map-compiler, that the old worldbuilding tools from Valve have used.
That was a sad, but also a funny moment :D.
Personally I would like to see a screenshot from the worldbuilding-tools bhvr is using. Then I would maybe some of the problems a bit better understand, bhvr seems to have. On the other hand - no companie likes to show its tools, so we maybe will never see them.
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Who actually cares about these shiny buttons with arbitrary conditions? I just want a game to last more than 5 minutes.
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Gatekeeper Emblem is working x'D Killed all the survivors and got Iri Gatekeeper.
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