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Why is Nurse such a rare killer to go against now?
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Nurse is a perfect example of why this game is unable to be balanced based on the best players (as I would usually advocate). Can you imagine balancing Nurse around average killers? She would be all you see, and she would be destroying every game!
She is a rare exception whereby if you are amazing you will be able to bypass all of the survivors defences and down them within 20/30 seconds. However, if you aren't amazing you'll get stomped.
I personally think she should be left as she is. It's good to have a killer with a high risk and a high reward, otherwise anyone that is moderately decent can pick her up and destroy teams almost effortlessly. Not to mention that it rewards players that are willing to put in the time and effort into learning her.
People suggest silly things like making her base speed faster, or giving her more blinks/less cool down; but they forget that her power by design is game breaking and that this needs to be balanced by making her less powerful in other areas.
To summarise; Nurse is in a good spot at the moment, don't let the fact that people struggle to play her cloud the fact that she is still top 2 (arguably the best killer).
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I'll just duct tape this to the very relevant OP:
ALSO just a reminder that Hillbilly doesn't need a nerf
If you think he does you're just not a good survivor.
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Because it's very tedious to play as her, especially on console. She's technically strong, but there are times where the cooldown actively lengthened chases that could've ended by then. It's frustrating and not worth it. Also, being able to outrun a nurse by running in a straight line is a bit of a stupid thing to know.
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Summarizes my technical opinions on Nurse, agreed
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Cause killers tend to wanna have the most easy way to play instead of putting in some effort to gitgud.
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Yes ofc since the right hands magicly fix her bugs. Like what part do you not understand about this that the game will completely screw you over and you can not use your power? No amount of getting used to or skill is going to fix that.
Ending chases in 5-10 seconds? Okay. Sure I believe that, NOT. Chase starts, when you get close to the survivor after that you need to wait for 2 blinks to come up again, than if everything is perfect you get one hit, by that time your estimated chasetime of 5-10sec is already done. Cause after the hit, the survivor gets away from her and she needs another 2 blinks. You should also consider dead hard, which comes in than and it is another 2 blinks... Just honestly stop.
I doubt that you play her at all cause 5-10sec is not realistic in the slightest.
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Yes the best killer or 2nd best killer with a killrate lower than clown. facepalm
What you describe is how old nurse worked, she needed addons changed and nothing else. Now you can put time into her and get no reward at all. You can perform the same with any other killer, even better depending on which.
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She's trash right now. Might as well be F tier because she has zero mobility now, her add ons are a joke, and hibernates for every offensive action. Before you were punished through learning her. Now you're just plain punished for playing her.
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not really, she's a strong killer and most veteran DBD players will agree that she's the best killer in dead by daylight right now. her mechanism of blinking to injure, wait for fatigue, then blink and down again is by far the most overpowered. no other killer can do this and sure, there have been some nerfs but she is definitely not in F tier. if you can't play her well, that's just you but her power is definitely really good especially against good survivors
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Her fun is F tier, and that's the most important part. No one will play a character if it isn't fun.
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Maybe on PC but she is ABSOLUTE TRASH on console. Survivors can now outrun you anywhere and you get punished even more using her power. In red ranks you have zero room for error and zero time for all that blink fatigue and cooldown crap that adds up. You have to find them and blink to them first and by the time you get to the other side of the map with her you can kiss at least a gen or two goodbye. Even looking at her add ons it looks like the devs said "Sorry not sorry we nerfed Nurse. Here's some non-existent effects to make up for when survivors dance around you like a tether ball pole."
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You killed Nurse, now you miss her. Go play her yourself.
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She takes so much time to learn and she is much harder to play. On console she is almost unplayable because of frame rates and sensitivity. Why spend hundreds of hours learning her when spirit or freddy are here?
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just spam plaid flannel, it helps a lot learning her.
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Can you stream right now? I wanna see ya play.
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I love how the original pass was just for her addons to nerf the 2 strong combos and make her useless ones not be useless.
Now we have like 6 good ones and the rest are meh to literally just as useless as they were before the pass and now the base killer is god damn awful without 2 SPECIFIC COOLDOWN addons every. single. game. to even stand a chance at a modicum of fun. Honestly it makes my blood boil with how dirty they did her, but then I look at Legion mains and I see a group of people as hurt, if not more than Nurse mains, for an even longer period of time and he was never even A tier.
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Where? from where do you get this? Because you cant play against her or because you've seen a streamer that has hrs played with her? Because I'll tell you where you haven't seen it, on the game. Ive posted this before but I'll repost it every time someone says she's OP or top tier. Im a good nurse, I play both killer and survivor at red ranks (not that it matters).
We all agree she needed a nerf but she was way over nerfed. Now she has one of the lowest kill rates of any killer for both experienced and new players alike.
Either:
a)remove or lower the cooldown for blink, maybe make the cool down reset both blinks instead of one per cool down.
b) Remove fatigue and leave everything else as is.
c) increase her base speed to 4.2-4.4 like hag/huntress/spirit or
d) give her 3-4 blinks and leave everything else as is.
Any ONE of these would put her back at the top or near the top tier without making her as OP as she once was.
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Well her skill cap is SOOOOOOOOO high now that its basically pointless to start learning her :/
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I agree, if they must keep this abortion of a rework something that would at least make it playable is having 4 blinks in reserve even if you're only able to use 2 at a time. It would make it so much more bearable to play her and I might even reinstall the game again.
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ok i do agree with this, her nerf was too much and unneeded. i do think her basekit cooldown should be reverted only for the sake that it is so glitched right now that you cannot play a game with nurse without being stuck on one blink and unable to use the 2nd. also, nurse's movement speed should def increase, no reason to make it so low
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Def is playable just saying
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As a former base kit nurse main who knows how to play her and can still get 4k, she lost her fun factor.
I play killers people think are trash now because they're more fun and that's why I'm playing dbd
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Is that seriously a bug or just the extremely frustrating 99% charge scenario?
If it's a bug that's just sad. If it's the 99% thing well then it just reinforces how dumb and poorly thought out the changes were.
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Recently ive been taking the time to learn nurse so there's that I actually find her not to frustrating to play with
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You were probably aiming too far with the blink.
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Has it been working?
There's only so much you can learn before her hard skill walls come into play. You can never do what you did before, you are strictly more limited in every single gameplay aspect than before.
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Its an actual bug. Sometimes the game takes your blink ability completely away. Making you a 96% speed M1 killer. In said bug you charge your blink, the Nurse does this weird spazzing out where it looks like she is charging 10 times a second (a bug implemented back in 2016), but now you can't finish charging, and you are just kinda stuck there. You can "cancel" the blinking by stopping holding down M2, but charging again won't solve the bug. Sometimes its only persistent for 1 or 2 blink circles, sometimes its up for the rest of the match.
A truly gamebreaking bug, completely ignored and forgottten by the developers.
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The overall is because she is not fun. Stuns are not fun for killers. I don't know why the devs can't figure this out, but stuns are not fun. Nobody has fun getting stunned. Nurse gets stunned every time she uses her power. She is not fun to play, so she is not played.
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Because the devs don't like fun, and instead like misery.
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Its her cooldown it is such a pain and unfun to have watch it every second just incase u blink to early and for get that u had wait one second more. Not fun at all
Not only did cooldown make her un enjoyable she still has fatigue and still the slowest moving killer n whole game. (Cooldown add-on dont matter before anyone starts "suggesting" it) as she is now she is not fun to play if the cooldown reverted back u would see more nurse players again.
To bad that will never happen devs dont give 2 flying fs and that why u dont see any nurse players anymore. Because she is Unfun to play revert her basekit we would see nurse players back again.
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Wow that is TRULY pathetic. Way to bust her kneecaps and just ignore her. Another Legion :(
Well I completely agree with you. Stuns in PVP games are G A R B A G E, but I've made many posts about that in other games (Overwatch, Smite, etc...) and the general consensus seems to be players either don't mind or actually like stuns. I can't figure out why making your opponent literally unable to play the game while you kill them and win is in any way fun but that's the evidence I've seen.
I guess having to actually outskill them is just too much for stun players ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Is the kill rate taking pick rate into account?
Furthermore, like I said; she's high risk and high reward. She needs to have a massive downside to counter her power.
Also where did I describe old Nurse? Was it the part where I said she bypasses survivor defences and has a game breaking power? Because that still stands.
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In other games they are not frequent, and can be potentially played around. You can avoid McCree's flash bang maybe, and it only happens if you are in melee range of McCree. Imagine if you were McCree and every time you fired a shot you had a mechanic called "muzzle recoil" that self-stunned you for 5 seconds. Who would want to play McCree then?
Obviously you can spend many hours working on blinks and git gud with nurse, but why do I want to waste my time? I'm not a dbd streamer, I get 2 hours of fun a night, why would I want to spend those two hours getting ######### on by survivors while i figure out blinks and get self-stunned every time I make a move? I'd rather play a different killer that doesn't have that mechanic (or more generally, another game because killer becomes less fun over time).
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Where do I get what from? If you're going to be sarcastic and act like a douche for no reason, at least explain yourself.
Do you think that she has the lowest kill rate because she has the highest skill cap and hardly anyone plays her, therefore hardly anyone practices her? Or do you always look at data at face value?
All of your suggestions just make her broken again. Like I said before, her power is game breaking by design, so she needs a massive cool down.
A) the whole reason the cool down was increased is because a good Nurse would never let you escape as she would always be all over you with next to no rest.
B) see the answer for A
C) increasing her base speed would defeat the whole purpose of her design. She's supposed to be a killer that can bypass walls, pallets and windows, but as a trade for that power her base speed is slow. Increasing her base speed would just make her ridiculously OP (not sure if you're trolling)
D) not sure if you're trolling with this one either but 3/4 blinks is stupid and I'm sure everyone unanimously agrees with that (except you for some weird reason).
I'm seriously not sure if you're being serious with some of those points lol but if you were a good Nurse like you said you were then you would know those suggestions are ludicrous.
In fact, I'll give you a suggestion. How about she has 2 blinks with only fatigue as per her old basekit, but only when not in chase. That way, she still has map pressure, but a good Nurse (I'm talking the ones that blink exactly onto you every time) won't be able to destroy teams no matter what.
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The reason why I don’t play her is because of her fatigue mechanic, it feels like you get punish for using your power. Blink once, fatigue, blink and miss a hit, fatigue, Blink and Blink, fatigue etc.
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I am not quite sure what you mean with does the killrate do take pickrate into account, the killrate is the average amount of kills of said killer in the games being played.
The thing is, she no longer has a reward part at all. Learning nurse was a thing in the past, the old nurse was perfect for that. I completely disagree that her power is being gamebreaking in any kind or way, it doesn't disable the movement for survivors.
Movement/Mindgaming was a constant thing against old nurse which made for the most fun trials of them all. No bs, just skill on both sides. She now is a limited version of her former self, little to no map pressure, easy to dodge/juke. They made the counterplay to her so dumbed down it is horrible, you can actually run away in a straight line and it will extend the chase for an long amount of time given how easy it is to do.
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People who did well there won't be much difference, they'll still do well.
But regarding learning her, it's not worth it at all. She was already the hardest Killer to learn and she is even harder to learn now. It's not worth it at all. Mine as well learn Spirit who is also super strong but way easier to learn and play
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Yeah, like show me another killer that gets fatigue AFTER hit and can down people.
Fatigue does not affect her blinks, at worst it prolongs the chase by 10 seconds after a hit.
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Let me explain myself since you think I'm being sarcastic.
“Do you think that she has the lowest kill rate because she has the highest skill cap and hardly anyone plays her, therefore hardly anyone practices her? Or do you always look at data at face value?”
First off, there’s a reason nobody players her other than her high skill cap, its her reward is not worth the time put into it, you get better results with spirit or hillbilly, hell even new doctor. I’m not looking at data at face value, I’m looking at the facts. By that logic then ruin didn’t need a nerf either because with hundreds of hours of practice anyone can hit great skillchecks…
“All of your suggestions just make her broken again. Like I said before, her power is game breaking by design, so she needs a massive cool down.”
Actually they do not. I am not saying all of those, I’m suggesting ONE of those, or even something else. She was nerfed for having a ridiculous number of blinks with no downside. Now she has up to 2 which she must use by the way to move because of her base speed being slower than survivors but I’m sure you knew that already.
“A) the whole reason the cool down was increased is because a good Nurse would never let you escape as she would always be all over you with next to no rest.”
True but they went from 5-6 blinks w no cooldown, to a max of 2 with individual c/ds because the 3 blink addon is a joke. Now you use your blinks to find a survivor, wait for 2 blink cooldowns to come
back while the survivor makes ground, then you have 2 blinks to catch the survivor and get a single hit, after which you must wait again for 2 c/ds and repeat (btw how much time has elapsed?), and that’s not counting DH, purple addon med kit, and assuming you guessed correctly what the survivor was going to do, if you miss any of your blinks you are done. The reason people don’t play her is not just she is hard to learn; she was just as hard to learn before. The reason people don’t play her now its because it’s not worth it.
“C) increasing her base speed would defeat the whole purpose of her design. She's supposed to be a killer that can bypass walls, pallets and windows, but as a trade for that power her base speed is slow. Increasing her base speed would just make her ridiculously OP (not sure if you're trolling)”
Except there’s plenty of things she can’t “bypass”, and the cooldown between blinks and fatigue make it nearly impossible for players to use her with exception of your “top tier nurses” which I have yet to see.
D) not sure if you're trolling with this one either but 3/4 blinks is stupid and I'm sure everyone unanimously agrees with that (except you for some weird reason).
3 or 4 blinks would not make her OP because the individual cooldowns and the fatigue would still be there. They could even make it that you can only blink twice in a row but you have up to four blinks in reserve.
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Yes, you do pop on a survivior, TR is 32m, blink range is 20m, so you need to travel only the 12 meters. So unless the survivior runs the ######### away as soon as he hears your TR, you can blink to them. Dont forget Monitor & Abuse exists and it reduces your TR to 24m, allowing you to blink almost immediately. And thats without range addons.
What I say is not true on an empty field, if tou want surprise them then they cant see you, so it works best when there are obstacles obstructing surviviors vision. Again, use obstacles, so they dont see you, good surviviors always can predict, but thats what you have chain Blink for. Even if they outplay you, you still have 12m blink.
Cant argue about Dead Hard because I dont have an access to statistics how many blinks are stopped by it, but I know that reaction DH is very hard, and you cant DH predict nurse in the 0.5s between blink and hit. I dont play often against Nurse bacause she is a rare killer and I dont play that much as a Nurse because she is hard, but its not like I dont play at all.
Im not saying bugs should not be fixed, Im saying that bugs do not affect the fact that she has the strongest power. And you just said that Devs fixed Sanctum of Wrath. They ARE fixing Nurse bugs.
Again, Bubba is weaker because his power only works at the end of a chase, this means that unlike Nurse he can be easily looped.
I thought he was talking about getting to basement by accident, not because of a bug.
43% killrate proves that she is hard to learn and that most people suck at her, but it does not mean she is not strong in the right hands.
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Yes, exactly, you can put time and effort and get no reward. Thats the exact reason no one plays her. But that does not mean its completly impossible to learn her. And that she is 2nd strongest after you learn her.
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Oh ok I meant are the kills averaged out. I still believe its due to her high skill cap and also because she's less fun to play.
You can disagree that her power is game breaking, but it still is. The whole premise of the chase is that survivors have limited defences against the killer I.e. pallets and windows. Introducing a killer that can completely ignore these is game breaking. Whether you think it's powerful/fair/fun or not, she completely changes the rules of the game. I hope that you understand what I mean now.
Referring to my original post, Nurse is an example of why you can't balance based on the best of the best because when played correctly there is no escape. Oh you found a pallet? Shame that won't be useful. A window? Nope, still not useful. You broke LOS? Let me catch LOS once and you're dead (I'm talking at the highest level, not an average or even a good player). Balancing for the good players means that the best Nurses have a huge advantage.
I agree that she had mind game potential. I also think that the amount of potential she had was disproportionate to the downside she had (due to the reasons I said above).
Whether or not you have seen her played to her potential is another question entirely. I know I have. I also know that there are still Nurses that agree she is fine balance wise, with the only problem being the fun factor (which is a very valid point, just doesn't equal balance). This group of people is mostly made up of people that are proficient with Nurse, and also people that understand the game, and how powerful she is.
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She is unfun to play as. Im happy with the add on changes but the cooldown was not necessary. If the cooldown was removed i would pick her up
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I can agree that you can have more consistent results with Spirit or Billy. I also know for a fact that as soon as Nurse was toned down, she disappeared. I have literally seen maybe 4 Nurses max and I play pretty much every day, and this is starting from day one of the nerf, not a gradual decrease in player numbers. Surely this shows that people aren't willing to put the time in any more? Ruin is completely different. You could push through it/hit all greats/gen tap/break the totem. There were many ways to counter it; but that's a whole other debate.
To respond to your responses.
A) see my suggestion for change in my last post.
However, old Nurse was nowhere near as hard to learn lol are you serious? Before you could just blink to the nearest LOS blocker, if you don't see them then rinse and repeat until you do. Now that you need to be more careful with your blinks this isn't always a viable option which equals a higher learning curve.
C) so can she or can she not blink through pallets, walls and windows, which are ultimately all of a survivors defences? Just because you haven't seen a top tier Nurse doesn't mean they don't exist.
D) like I said, the whole reason she was nerfed is that she could bypass defences too easily whilst not having enough of a drawback. Giving her extra blinks is not the way to fix this. I'm pretty sure most people think that base Nurse was fine because 2 blinks max give the survivor a chance to escape. Any more than that and you can blink to the nearest LOS blocker, blink to make sure they're going the way you predict, then finally blink onto them if you were right.
Like I said in my previous post to you, what about if she had her previous base kit but only when out of chase? That way she would retain her map pressure, but it keeps her chase potential from being too high (outright deadly in the wrong hands).
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Because mastering her is really really hard, i could say she is the hardest one to master. She always was but now if you mess up you just lose the chase, its not fun to lose 2 gens just because you missed one attack and got asthma for 10 seconds is it? Those who mastered her before the nerf are the ones slaying.
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Even if you are good with nurse, it's not fun to spend 1/3 of the match stunned. It just feels so clunky. Besides that, bugs won't speak for playing her either (i.e. blink doesn't always work but you get stunned after it failed - even in an completely open field).
And yeah, if you're bad with nurse... One miss and you can't catch up for a long time
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i agree sm with this. it does take much more practice to reach her skill cap and it can be frustrating for a lot of people including me when i was learning her, but even with her i purposely play as her against swf teams and completely dominate them including popular streamers who are actually veterans at the game. not that it matters, but it does show that actual skilled nurses who have great muscle memory with her can't be avoided.if you were already a skilled nurse prior to her nerf and had no trouble with her gameplay, then you will most likely still not feel that much of a disadvantage while playing her.
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yeah, this is very reasonable and understandable.
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TL:DR
She got nerfed pretty hard but it won't affect the people who were good with her before that patch. Now she's so unforgiving people don't want to learn her. The majority of this community wants it easy, both sides.
The problem with any gaming community is the mentality. When the meta gets nerfed it could be a minor change that hardly affects it. But if someone says "Oh this character isnt viable anymore" then the group tends to believe what was said without actually trying it out themselves.
It's gaming in general. What my buddies from FF11 used to call "Victims of Strategy Guides" Instead of playing a game and figuring out what works, they go to twitch or youtube and copy someone else.
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yeah, i think her cooldown for her blinks should be removed especially because of the limitless amount of glitches and bugs that come with it.
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