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Nerf Borrowed Time
Since killer related stuff and things are getting nerfed patch after patch, think it's about time we address the elephant in the room, borrowed time. General consensus of Borrowed time (BT) is that your can unhook survivors and that person is granted deep wounds upon a hit after the fact. Sounds alright so far? Not only this but here's the kicker, you can use it as many times as you want!
This not only encourages YOLO saves but encourages toxic gameplay which isn't out of the norm for survivor mains anyway.
TL:DR: Nerf Borrowed time so that it may only be used once every few minutes or even better, once or twice per trial.
Comments
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Bt is fine where it stands.
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You can literally down the unhooking survivor for free if he's hook diving with BT. Git gud and stop tunneling.
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Git gud and don't use BT or DS.
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Git gud and stop assuming I am using these perks because I think both perks are not worth a perk slot.
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Since ruin is ruined, the survivors have more chances to reach the endgame with 4 survivors alive and you right BT turns toxic asf.
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Just make BT not activate after the gates are powered.
Also Doctor and Freddy can make BT useless, so you can use them if you really have a problem with the perk.
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This would be okay if Killers didn't consistently tunnel. I know they're Killers out there who don't, but the ones that do are what force Survivors to run things like DS/BT. Also, you're literally trading a Survivor for a Survivor and keeping at least 2 of them off gens for a small portion of time when theres a BT save. One has to mend, the other gets hooked. BT is fine where it stands, nerfing is unnecessary.
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But BT already got nerfed. :)
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BT exists cause killers play cheap. If BT would get nerfed, you would have to get rid of the possibility to play cheap as killer first. But as it stands devs favor killers cheap play.
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And survivors don't 'play cheap'? Whatever that means. Its a no skill perk that rewards bad play. Its a bad perk and does nothing but make the game worse.
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I can see this being a problem to deal with at end game. Its completely understandable at that point, but during a game when theres still gens up, I don't see this as a problem. Also I agree, the whole "git gud" propaganda is a cop-out response.
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Survivors cannot play cheap. Or Show me the equevalant to Camping, tunneling and slugging.
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Buff Borrowed Time to combat no terror radius GhostFace and Freddy. Thanks for bringing up BT.
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Cant count the times I went for the unhooker and the unhooked person with BT throws himself in front of me to tank a hit. Yeah thats totally what BT is there for. It gets abused like DS.
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Just run insidious if you want to camp and tunnel man.
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@CrescentGent @SnakeSound222 @Unicorn This is an interesting thread to read and everyone's takes are fairly reasonable. I believe that this community could really use less toxic attitudes though like "get good" and dismissing across the aisle complaints. The way I see an arguement where someone just says "get good" with or without a perk (killer or surv), I think that arguement is counter intuitive to the point brought up by the host and is essentially a poop post. All of that to say, I see why you think a change needs to be made.
I'm a hard survivor main and I often see people abuse the system set in place by BT. Now you said making it only happen once or twice would be optimal. Why? That isn't an attack but a genuine question because as a survivor main I usually only use it once IF twice a game. Would instead a prerequisite, counter, or rework all together be better? Really curious what you think because I have a couple ideas that might be able to be built upon.
Prerequisite - Some perks come with these to counter balance the overpowered nature of the perk. For example Hidden Strength for survs. You must clean a hex totem yada yada right? So, would this seem like a fair balance to the nature of the perk. (Here is an off the top example and not some deep analysis. Please feel free to insert your own) Like maybe you start with (1,2,2) charges of BT and can only regain a charge every (110,100,90) seconds in the killer terror radius. Again, please dont hang me for my ignorance here, but I'm just trying to brainstorm.
Rework - this would be a mid chapter update most likely and change the dynamics of the perks fundamentally. Many, MANY perks have been slighted over the years (better or worse) and this perk is not immune to that. This being said by someone who runs this perk religiously (again, forgive me 🙏). Like everyone with the perk starts with (0,1,2) charges of borrowed time. Everytime you are hit after unhooking someone, you gain 1 charge up to (2,2,2). After being hit post hook, you no longer gain charges for this unhook. (Incase I worded poorly above). This would make the killer decide on whether or not to hit the hooked person or the unhooker.
Please respond with an idea or two of your own so we can explore the best use of this perk!
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So the unhooker is supposed to let you hit the unhooked survivor? He's attempting to stop you from tunneling that unhooked survivor
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In that sense things like body blocking, tanking hits, blocking hooks, etc is cheap for survivors.
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If they nerf BT at all they also need to make it work against stealth killers.
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Mabye I didnt phrase it right. Sry english is not my first language.
I mean the unhooker gets protected by the unhooked. You go as killer for the unhooker and the unhooked one tanks a hit with BT to protect the unhooker. Hopefully that clarifies it
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Just let them try to bodyblock for 15 seconds...it always catches them by surprise.
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They only change I would make to BT is to put a timer on it of say 10-15s before it activates so its not used for instantly farming others.
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If playing cheap shouldn't exist, then aura-reading perks on killers (Barbecue & Chili, Bitter Murmurs, Discordance, etc.) shouldn't really exist. Dead by Daylight is suppose to be a "hide-and-seek" type game and killers shouldn't have any hand-holding perks (or add-ons) then.
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Tbh thats a neat tech but I never waited for BT to run out and go for the unhooked. Mby I dont deserve to be a killer :'( coz Im too nice
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I don't run the perk myself, but my understanding is that it goes off based on terror radius, as in you have to be in it. Unless they are literally running at you as you're hooking, just move away. Hit them as they're unhooking, and if the other person dives in front of you, make them Mend and waste time!
Ghostface, Freddy, Wraith or even Pig can completely cancel BT by nkt having a Terror radius.
Perks like Monitor and Abuse or Furtive Chase can all help to alleviate this problem as well.
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No other way to punish cocky swf...gotta be mean and use big brain lol.
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I dont understand DbD as a hide and seek. This game is all about the interaction of killers and survs. And this interaction is also very important for the devs as they stated it.
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You are totally right dude ^^ Mby I should sometimes put on my sweaty pants xD
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I don't mind Borrowed Time or Decisive Strike because they both feel like anti-tunneling tools. And in the case of DS, as the Killer, you have some ability to play around it. If you're willing to risk Unbreakable or teammates healing while you wait for the potential DS cooldown.
What I mind more is when you get the teammates trying to farm you, that don't have BT, that still try to dehook you inside the killer's terror radius. Or they'll sprint to try to race you to get a dehook first, despite never being on a Generator & then don't have BT themselves so the Survivor immediately gets knocked down again. As a We're Gonna Live Forever gamer, I get aggravated a lot when people race me to hooks because I miss out on a stack & am usually running BT myself.
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The consensus is that the game is heavily survivor sided and needs balanced maps to be a fair 4 vs 1. I don't know what you are talking about, sounds like you don't play killer at all.
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I agree with your first point about the community. Unfortunately this is what the community is and its been like this for a while. Thankfully the Mods/Devs of the forums made the rules more strict so I see less aggressive and toxic behavior, buts its still here.
Anyway, I think your idea is okay but looking at it from a Solo Survivor's point of view (yes I do run BT religiously) I'm usually the only Survivor that has it as the others are (most of the time) running the classic META perks (Adrenaline, DS, SB, SC, Head-On, etc) When we look at making changes based off of games that were bad, we need to look at it from all aspects. Not everyone is a SWF team and not all Survivors run BT. I realize a lot of players come onto forums after a tough game and voice their complaints based off of it. BT is fine in my eyes, I do see it being a little stressful at the end game and especially when the gates are open though. Unfortunately, tunneling is a real thing and this is an anti-tunneling perk for someone like me that doesn't mind dying and saving others.
Edit: Lets also keep in mind that stealth Killers negate BT. If BT were to be nerfed, the perk would literally rot.
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I don't see how you'd nerf borrowed time lol
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If I were to make any changes to Borrowed Time it would be for it to activate only if the killer is within 24 meters. Note that this would be both a buff and a nerf. It would make it independent of the killer's terror radius. So you can't be a stealth killer with 0 terror radius and camp to your heart's content. But 24 meters is also less than the standard killer's 32 meter terror radius. So whether it is a buff or nerf would depend on the killer. But if the killer isn't within 24 meters then objectively it isn't camping and shouldn't proc.
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BT is fine, if the survivor tanks a hit is not playing cheap, is playing smart. It's like saying 99 ing with Myers is playing cheap. It's a strategy, if you don't like it play Civilization V.
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I can't count the number of locker grabs, gen grabs, and chest grabs I've had against DS players. That isn't anti tunneling. Example, I was playing killer and saw scratch marks leading to the hook. I followed the scratch marks, The survivor drops a pallet and unhooks. The unhooked survivor gets on the gen 5 feet from the hook and starts grinding away. I get an interrupt and DS.
Did I camp or tunnel. Nope. I capitalized on a survivor mistake, which is required as a killer. The perk needs to be nerfed so that it only activates when they are the next basic attack the killer makes. Unless you feel that survivors are entitled to 40-60 seconds of objective time with immunity.
Borrowed Time: Survivor hook techs the hooking animation and resuces with Borrowed Time. The unhooked survivor body blocks for the rescuer. Would you classify this as anti-Camping, anti-Tunneling, or exploiting?
Survivors like this make me want to bring bubba and ground camp them until they bleed out. I am under no obligation to make your DBD experience enjoyable. I will reciprocate your behavior.
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This is not how every Survivor plays, just like every Killer doesn't tunnel.
Edit: If BHVR were to nerf every Killer/Surv perk based off of a portion of people that use it for anything other than whats it supposed to accomplish, every single perk would be bad rn.
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I remember when borrowed time guranteed an escape for both unhooker and hook person. It was a one time used perk.
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I think thats exactly the question. Should there be perks that CAN be abused in a way they were not intented to work?
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Absolutely not. The only time I'd see taking a hit for someone else if you have BT being a problem is when the gates are open. Otherwise you can choose to get either of those Survivors down if you can maintain a chase successfully.
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it is pretty fine where it is; if you are proxy camping close enough to prock borrowed time in the first place you really should be pressuring elsewhere better; however in an endgame perspective yes it can be frustrating with gates being 99 or open.
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Well if you use the Ruin nerf as a guide, they would nerf 2 perks. Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike. They wouldn't even be nerfs really just adjustments. They wouldn't turn strong perks into trash, such as the Ruin nerf did.
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So we agree on that.
Like you were saying, BT is an anti tunnel perk. So if you would forcefully bait the hit from the killer with BT active (eg for protecting another surv), its not tunneling. And so BT shouldnt be able to work like this. Also circle unhooking with BT is a thing. The unhooked with active BT unhooks another survivor. If BT is anti tunnel, you shouldnt be able to do that.
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Agreed. So what did you have in mind for a rework? I'm interested. I'm not sure if you posted one already.
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No I didnt. But in another thread @Blueberry had a great idea. Make that the unhooker gets the hit from the unhooked. For example if you get unhooked and hit, the damage is transfered to the unhooker. So the unhooked has a protection but not the 15 sec invulnerability. What do you think?
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I hear you pal, I just was hoping to make sense of what killers and survs would see as "fair". This game is a continual balancing act and I can see why some might think that this needs to change. In that same light, I fully understand that if you or I complain about a killer's main perk (mainly BBQ Chilli) I would get flak like "get good" and such. If I were to make such claims I would hope to see more conversations and less needless degrading.
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Thats actually a reasonable idea. It'll still do something about tunneling for sure but it wouldn't screw the Killer over if they weren't tunneling the unhooked Survivor.
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Yes! I really like this idea. As survivor you would have to play it smart to get some nice plays out of it. You cant just mindlessly farm in the terror radius without risking anything and get the save unhook. And the basement would get a little fear factor back.
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BT is fine the way it is. Just go for the one who keeps farming in front of you
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I dread when my solo queue teammates run BT. Without fail, the Killer hits me and then just tunnels me through the whole timer, rendering it completely useless.
I've had it work once in 18 months of play, against a Hag -- and I mean literally once, no exaggeration. Every other time has been a tunnel fest, so I wouldn't miss that perk even a little bit
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The only thing I would want to see is a cooldown on it... make it more of a strategic perk than a spam-ish perk.
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