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Does Spirit Require Looking Into Once Again?
It's been just over 2 months since Spirit's adjustments were implemented and i'm going to be raising attention to the same issue that I raised back then.
Now, I have given it some time and felt it was needed to bring up once again; the issue of Spirit having cosmetics which remove the telltale sign of her entering phase within close proximity - her shard glowing. There are multiple cosmetics that do this: her Withering Blight, her Schoolgirl and her Kimono outfits.
When equipped it removes all info needed for a survivor to make an accurate read on the situation and has to guess what the Spirit is doing. She could literally just be standing there watching them waiting for a survivor to make a move into a vulnerable position, and if they don't, she just phases and pops out where they were stood waiting and get a free hit.
The point of this thread is to make notice of how a change would benfit her quality of life in this game. If the Spirit were to have a 100% visible telltale sign of her having entered phase, no matter the cosmetic worn. It would allow more interactive gameplay between the killer player and the survivor player being chased, onlooking at the Spirit etc etc. The fact that the survivor would now have 100% accurate info that the Spirit had activated her phase now opens up the path to new mindgames played on both sides.
The Spirit now knows the survivor is aware of her activating phase so now can remain still while phase is active to see if the survivor vaulted into them or moved into a vulnerable position, away from the loop. The survivor can accurately assess whether or not using the pallet is going to have an effect on the Spirit (making her think the survivor ran through it and dropped or remained on their side). Currently these mindgames are all guess work on the survivors pov. Spirit currently is always going to be in control of the chase at loops since, as pointed out, the survivor has no clear indicator on most of her cosmetics wether she is phasing or not.
The implementation of making her husk give a 100% accurate telltale could be that the Spirit emanates an ethereal glow on the outline of her model; or the husk has zero animation to it and is fixed completely still. These are examples I have come up with, but as always, Devs, the final product is your call.
I raise this issue as an awareness of a glaring imbalance in gameplay when playing Spirit. Survivors are always guessing vs her; she is in control of most chases, mainly at loop areas.
Comments
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Yeah every other killer has a noise or visual effect to show their power is being used. Spirit really does feel unmindgameable at times. Even when I play as her at high ranks I'll get them in less than 30 seconds 80% of the time. Sometimes without even using my power they just vault into me.
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People play differently against different survivors. They expect spirit to phase during chases so if you stop running they'll think you're doing it. It's all about mind games.
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Except giving a 100% intentional tell would remove the mindgame.
(Spirits hair resetting animation is more likely caused by the husk spawning with the start of the standing-animation while the spirit is at a random position of that animation. Might be wrong tho)
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On the topic of Spirit changes..
I think the new global sound Prayer Beads make it even more stressful than the old silent ones, 'cause you don't know if she's coming for you or someone else.
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@Marcavecunc you are talking about stuff that is irrelevant to the point I made. I know there are different kinds of playstyle with Spirit. What I was raising awareness to was the telltale function and how it has issues that remove fairness from certain aspects of chases, rescues etc vs her.
@Raptorrotas How would it remove the mindgame? I just gave explicit examples to detail that it would actually raise mindgames in her gameplay
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yeah add spirit visual sign about if she's phasing or not coz this "mindgame" you call is one-sided . but with visual sign survivors still can be caught if she cancel phasing
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@SurvJoe precisely my thinking, this change wouldn't remove her strength at all, because the survivor still has minimal knowledge of her movement in phase (grass, footsteps on certain surfaces). So once in phase, the only difference is that the Spirit actually has to think with her phase plays to actually outplay a survivor. Rather than what this so called mindgame currently is with her phases at loops
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How the hell people are still being fooled with standing-still-mindgame?? I'm not trying to be cocky here but I have 0 problems with spotting when she's phasing!
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To be honest her whole look just screams "I'm phasing!" when she uses her ability. If I can see her on the screen, I'm 99% ready to say when she's phasing. Her whole animation shakes a little bit, her hair (no matter what they are) move wildly because of it. Like, for real, if you know exaclty what you need to pay attention at, you'll have 0 problems with her. I know people spammed that video that "disproved" those traits but how on the Earth am I able to know when she uses her Yamaoka Haunting?
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Just a question. Isn't mindgaming always a guess? Like moonwalking as killer, predicting a moonwalking killer etc...
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Yup.
Had a game as Pig once where I could never catch the survivor working on that one generator, even if I was crouching towards it.. after a few times, I figured they had Spine Chill, so next time I went backwards.. sure enough, I heard the distinct noise they make when repairing and caught them.
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The difference between mindgaming a normal Killer and "mindgaming" a Spirit is that other Killers take more time and have more visible indications. You have to use your knowledge of how Killers gain the upper hand and what the indications may or may not be telling you to estimate what the Killer is doing and what they're going to do. It's less of a guess and more of a prediction. Meanwhile, Spirit gives no reliable indication that she is phasing or not, leaving you unable to tell whether or not she's actually using her power or just standing still, and even when she is phasing, she's completely invisible to Survivors. The only reliable thing to tell you what Spirit is doing is Spine Chill, and even then, Spirit can counter it with looking away and funky pathing to make the Perk's signals unreliable and unindicative of her current position. Countering Spirit is definitely a lot more guesswork, but people with absolute galaxy brains can learn how to predict.
Only problem is, if she has headphones, it doesn't matter how good you are since she can just insta-dash over to where she hears you—which is why the one good thing to come out of all these audio bugs is hindering Spirit's ability to go, "Nice try #########, but I have ears. ggez"
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Well, when looking away while phasing, you steal yourself the only clue that you get from a survivor, which is moving grass and scratch marks. So not sure if this is really a thing just to counter a possible spinechill. And there are "unmindgameable" loops, which is when you can see the killer. Mindgames are when you can't see the killer, or it wouldnt be a mindgame. One thing I can think of is, when the killer doesn't break the pallet but tries to bait you to the other side and/or the survivor fakes a vault. There you have visible clues, yet you have to guess if the opponent fakes or not. If you fake a vault and the killer commits, he gets the hit.
And you said "You have to use your knowledge of how Killers gain the upper hand". Same on spirit. One simple thing for example on that standing-still issue is, get out of sight. She can't watch you checking if you run left/right or just stand waiting, if she can't see you. And then she has to guess the same, if you crouch back, walk further out of sight or what ever. Sure it is harder to learn, same on nurse. But that's why these are viable killers. And I'm not sure if you need galaxy brains to learn that. Just playing a bit Spirit should give some ideas, to see when you get problems with the default tactics.
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@WRussoW 99% ready, so even after seeing these noticable traits of phasing, you still aren't certain? This is my point, when Spirit uses variations of her base cosmetic (ie the bandage garments) you can 100% tell she is phasing because of the shards glowing. With the alternative costumes you're saying I have to spot an already twitchy killer make a specific kind of twitch? Please describe this specific amimation, or hiccup even, that let's the survivor know she has fully activated phase. I'll go to a KYF and see if I can successfully spot when she phases and how often I can redo that feat.
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@Deadeye When it comes to the standing still issue, I only have an issue with her doing that with certain cosmetics. And also, not every map has LOS near loops for you to peel away to and mess her vision of you up. My point, as I keep saying, is with certain cosmetics there are a lot of situations in the game, which is practically the majority of the time, where you'll be in a situation where the Spirit is always gonna be in control of the chase. If a survivor has no indicator of a killer doing something then they are likely going to lose that chase. Spirit with certain cosmetics on is a pain in the ass to vs. Hence the thread, if that guy tells me what to look for and it turns out I was just unclued on the telltale then i'll hold my hands up and repost in this thread thanking him and detailing it myself as well to back it up. But if it doesn't (which I am confident of) then i'll ask again that the devs go back and rework Spirits husk mechanic, since nothing in DBD should be tipped more to one side, balance wise
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Pls, no more nerfs, killers are on their last legs. If that happens, most of the killer population will got to Last Year.
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Thats just lies. Those Animations are default. Nothing to tell her phasing.
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How Spirit works is not your problem, l2p
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Moreover, they need to fix the audio bug which currently makes the survivors quiet like they have in-build Iron Will. Guess why no one tell about this, entitled survivor mains.
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All these bullshits can be summarized in 2 rows:
Iron Will;
Git gud.0 -
And this can be summarized in one method of counterplay:
Headphones.
Seriously, if Iron Will countered Spirit as hard as people say it does, how does she hit healthy Survivors to begin with, hmm?
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Because running healthy survivor makes sounds, injured iron will doesnt. Not like it matters with broken sounds as they're now.
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Actually, yes they do. Iron Will Survivors will make the exact same sounds that healthy Survivors do, including the regular breathing.
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Do you really wanna make killer life a living hell i guess becouse of being a salt factory
You just lose against a good spirit and you are tossing salt here expecting they will turn her in a kinda of old freddy
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I probably play more Spirit than I do Survivor because a) Survivor is boring as hell, and b) Spirit is an absolute piss take. She’s not hard at all. Old Legion took more skill than Spirit does.
Even Killers I despise going against I can still admit are in dire need of buffs. Trapper, Clown, Wraith—They piss me off, but I agree, they need buffed. Spirit, though? I hope she gets gutted. The only good thing to ever come out of Spirit’s existence is Oni. Oni is the best thing to ever happen to this game. Aside from that, I wish she never existed. Spirit is for Billy mains who want to convince themselves they’re playing a skill-based top-tier Killer.
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Your survivor bias is showing bro, the oni is currently exactly what survivor want to get a free win. I've seen loads of Oni struggling to finally get that demon dash and in the meanwhile 3 gen popped and he can still be looped, nice b8
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They dont, i run bill with iron will and prefer to be injured because he's a big mouth breather. Also I WISH survs made those sounds, like meg running, when i play killer. Injured iron will makes 0 sound, none. Even standing still breathing isnt there. And trust me, killers find you by those.Only stepping sound give them out, and even this is broken atm on some maps.
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keep begging for killer "fixes" there will no killers left after bhvr is done massacring the game
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i would also nerf her addons especially red and green ones for speed and for recovery she is already quite strong without addons
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Drop me any video to determine when she's phasing, I'll tell you the timecode.
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Nerfing spirit is not needed, but making her cosmetics consistent should be done. Cosmetics are cosmetics, shouldnt be used to gain advantage (except for camo colors)
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That 1% is when I miss the moment she starts phasing and now I have to guess if she uses her ability. And yeah, you can't be sure about anything in general, so take that 1% as nothing serious.
My poor english vocabulary won't really be useful enough to describe it. Do you have any high quality video with a compilation which shows when the Spirit is about to use her power and she's on the screen? It would be much easier for both of us. That "hiccup" she does is really fast but noticable.
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@GamingHulk123 it isn't even a substantial nerf if it happens. All it would do is remove the bs factor of vsing Spirit. Whenever I vs a Spirit it feels like i'm just vsing myself, I have no idea if my movement or mindgame has worked until she pops out of phase (if she even was phasing to begin with when I guessed that she was). How can people think this would be horrible to put in the game?
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@WRussoW so, I did multiple tests on this. And yes, you're right, there is like a hiccup animation where her hair stands upright. But, this is a very hard static animation to catch. I got it wrong loads more times than I got it right, even though I knew what the cue was. It isn't that reliable. Whereas her shard glowing, I can spot them every time without fail, since they literally change from a dull grey to a bright blue. So yeah, she does have a static cue to see when she initiates phase, but good luck catching that every time in the heat of a chase. I would still push to have a 100% telltale put in. From my perspective it would improve quality of life drastically; because atm she is very obnoxious to vs
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It's actually doesn't involve her hair alone. If she's looking somewhere else, her husk well put her head straight forward. That means 80% of the time her head quite noticably moves a little bit as well. I can't actually say her hiccup is THAT hard to notice, probably you'll be better at it after a while. You just need to look at her in general, like, you don't need to pay extra attention at her hair because you can see them covering a major part of your screen. Her body, especially arms, usually shake for a second when she starts phasing, it's a static animation as you've mentioned. Again, I don't know about you but I manage to notice it every time when I have to counter her standing-still-mindgame.
(And if the Spirit has long hair, they go so UP when she phases, you don't need to look anywhere else. Standard Spirit's hair are literally an easy mode when it comes to knowing what she's doing. You can say she's phasing when you're miles away when she has long hair! Like, come one, this one is 100% noticable...)
The problem is there are a lot of small things about her that let you know what she's about to do but they are kinda too minor to be that significant and there are so many of them you just don't get what you need to pay attention at.
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Have you tried actually gitting gud with him? I used to think Oni was one of the worst Killers in the game, but frankly, he’s one of the best. I bet you just think he’s bad because neither you nor most people are used to playing Killers with an actually reasonably steep skill curve.
I don’t typically agree with Scott on a lot of things, but this basic guide should give you some ideas how to play Oni.
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I’m not going to argue this with you. I have picked up the sounds of Survivors breathing normally while using Iron Will, and those alongside every other sound they make are completely the same as when they are healthy. If you can’t hear it, then you either need hearing aids or Stridor, because it’s absolutely there.
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Yes, he was decent with the old ruin, now you have to slug to make him good and I don't like this playstyle, which works just on small maps. Enjoy your offering to go to the Game all the time and hope they don't bring offerings for other maps as well lol.
Btw, I always talk with high skill level survivors in mind. If you get a 4slug man in Badham as the Oni, well they suck lol
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If they put a new add-on which let him start the trial with a Demon-charge ready to strike he could become a solid B tier.
No way the Oni can handle the meta in the current state, you are overstimating him and that's all
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Alright, I guess my straight two months of being a red rank Oni main since he came out and beginning to do consistently well with him as I improved means jack diddly squat.
Seriously man, all I can say is git gud. Oni is one of the few Killers in this game whose skill curve is actually steep, and a good Oni will have his way with you any day of the week.
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Also for the record, the Game is one of Oni’s best maps. He has strafing in his dash and doesn’t get punished for bumping into things. He’s not Billy for crying out loud. He has some of the best mobility on indoor maps in the game (except for Hawkins because that place is ridiculously claustrophobic).
Verse me on the Game. I’ll play Oni and clap your cheeks so incredibly hard your ancient ancestors will feel it. Mark my words.
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Rank is a prank in the current state of the balance. Even my grandma can hit high ranks as both killer and survivor
And, yes Mr. Oni, I guess even my spirit does godlike in the game map. Again, I want to see you playing him in Badham or Hawkins agaist toolboxes xD
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At least, the Spirit is one of the most balanced killers in the game. She has a chase potential that the Hillbilly can see just in his dreams, good map presence with proper add-on. If you hate her, this could be cuz you get bullied by a very solid spirit user. Idk who, but sure he bullied you so hard that he made you feel stupid :) @Demogordon_Ramsay
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I get Badham as Oni quite often, and I almost always Hulk smash the entire team. And even if Hawkins is annoying and claustrophobic, it’s one of the few maps in this game that are legitimately Killer-sided, so I don’t really see what you’re on about.
Spirit is the strongest Killer in the game and simultaneously the easiest to learn. Her ability is to disable the Survivors’ ability to see at her at all while simultaneously moving faster than a Sprint Burst user, and in exchange she has to use her ears instead of her eyes. If that’s balanced, then it’s a good thing gen times go so fast because if this game were actually balanced, Spirit would be completely broken.
Anyway, like I said earlier, I probably do more bullying as Spirit than I do getting bullied as Spirit, since most Spirit players are complete trash (hence why they’re playing Spirit), meanwhile playing as Spirit is basically a free win.
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You have Iron Will, the new Balanced Landing, the sounds bugged on purpose by those clueless devs, Spine Chill, Quick&Quiet. Just looking at your previous replies you told something about Stridor on her, which tells me you never played a single round as Spirit becouse Stridor makes her misjudge their positions, scream pains are too loud. At least complain about father's glasses to give up a good argument. Nerfing a killer who brings a challenge to the game, means that this community is ridicously braindead.
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Actually, my go-to build on Spirit is BBQ, Monitor, Pop, and Devour Hope. I don’t use Stridor because I don’t think it’s useful because unlike you, I can hear just fine, and thus I win for free.
When the bugged sounds started becoming really problematic, I stopped playing Spirit because I thought I would actually have to start putting effort into her to do well, and I played Spirit for that exact opposite purpose. However, I can still brute-force my way to a 4K without relying on anything except bugged audio just fine.
My personal favorite Spirit match was where I absolutely destroyed a team who had 3 Iron Will users with no effort whatsoever. It was pretty lit.
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