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Are the devs biased towards survivors?
I'm gonna be real with you, it feels this way. The newest patch just showed us this. While Doctor did get a really good rework that is fun to play and verse, it's WHY they did it that angers me. The devs looked at how he was annoying to play against, but said nothing about how weak he was. Granted, they gave him a power boost, pushing him from (in my opinion) top upper-middle of B teir to Freddy level, which is amazing, but they didn't seem to take into consideration the killers. Ruin was even worse. They stated that in 80% of red rank games, Ruin is used. They said that they looked into why it was annoying to play against, but not why it was needed.
There was a Q&A interview with the devs where one of the questions was about bad/underused perks. They said they are working on that internally and that they even have a short list of ones they are specifically targeting to fix. Among about 9 perks he stated, ONE of them was a killer perk (I believe the perk was unrelenting or something like that).
These are not the only examples. The devs have continuously made killers weaker and weaker. The Legion rework absolutely destroyed him. He is, in my opinion, the second worst killer in the game. He wasn't even good before the rework unless you were running a tryhardy build, but he was "annoying to play against", so they nerfed him into the ground. Bubba was made in a rush, and has never really been looked at again. Ruin has been nerfed, Dying Light has been nerfed, and these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head (I'm not THAT knowledgable about past patches). Meanwhile, survivors are just as strong as ever, if not stronger. Sure, MoM and DS have been nerfed, and pallet vacumms have been fixed, but these changes are nothing compared to how bad the killers have it. The gen times are absolutely ridiculous. Even amazing killers like Otzdarva and Ardetha struggle against gen times. You can apply pressure all you want. In the end, if the survivors are good, and at least on of them is on a gen, there's not much you can do. I genuinely believe the devs are biased towards survivors and have made the game incredibly frustrating and unfun for killers. If the killer has to play like a scumbag to win, you've screwed up BHVR. That's not fun for either side.
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survivors have had nothing but nerfs for years. You know they changed hook spawns 4 times, removed pallet loops, changed jungle gyms added bloodlust changed perks, more then just self care Mettle of Man and DS. Do you remember why we lost so many survivor streamers? Because they were forced into positions with no outplay. The game wasn't fun anymore no matter how good you were you were going to lose if even 1 person on your team wasn't bringing their A game. You had to have so much synergy that the game was impossible to play without a swf. They even gave killer the ability to close the hatch the end game collapse makes it to where survivors have no choice but to die especially with the door locations almost always being on the SAME wall or within walking distance of each other to camp both of them. One perk from killers gets nerfed and it all falls apart. If you have been here through all the patches you can talk about balance because the game has been balanced to help killers win game. I play enough killer (I play spirit btw) to know that until I hit around rank 8 every kill is easy every game is easy I don't have to think to play the match I can just phase pretend to phase counter every play that a survivor makes because I can force them into predictable patterns. I can down a whole team of survivors before 3 gens are done and a lot of the time I can if they do get 4 done make sure I force them to throw 3 gens to 1 side proxy those gens get free kills pop goes the wheezle the gen that is almost done chase a bit rinse repeat til there are no pallets and everyones on last hook. It's so easy to force survivors to play MY WAY. I don't have to worry about keeping them off all my gens.
Yes I play spirit and its kinda scumbaggy the way I play but if its a mechanic and part of the game then why would I change how I play if I don't have to.
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Yeah, I can see how we both have been kinda screwed. I just think BHVR needs to balance this game. Make it fair and fun for both sides, but I feel like BHVR will never do this.
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Despite the fact both sides get nerfed, they are primarily pushing for 2 live 2 die balance, supposedly. The problem is, it seems that for the majority of times in recent updates - the updates are done because of Survivor-player annoyance or frustration rather than because the changes were actually warranted; or at least that is how Devs word their update notes - especially with the Ruin changes and Doc changes, it was heavily worded that it was due to Survivors being upset about playing against them that they changed them.
Couple that with some of the major upsets Killer players have (Self-Care infinite use, etc.) being ignored and (iin SC's case) Devs stating they are actually afraid to touch it because they don't want the backlash of the Survivor players (because they need 4 of them for every 1 killer player); it is easy, albeit annoying, to see why Devs come across as favoring Survivors over the Killers.
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Doctor has made no difference to me when I play survivor, If I start running across a ton of doctors I start bringing calm spirit If I notice alot of killers bringing perks to reveal survivors near by downed survivors calm spirit. It has become a regular to my build because of all the reveal perks, sometimes I bring distortion if i run into lost of aura reading killers. I don't really care about doctor if he cant find me he cant down me and I can continue with my usual.
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I can tell you play against a lot of potato survivors and don't know how to loop. If you honestly think survivors have been consistently nerfed then that's just plain survivor bias. Most of the few nerfs survivors received were necessary because they had no counter play to them, where as killer nerfs already had counter play yet nerfs were rolled out anyway. Survivors have and always will have the most safe role. They have plenty of loops which don't even have any mind games (god loops) and still have quick gen times. The only way to "control" a match as a killer is if you make the survivors 3 gen themselves, otherwise you won't stop the gens from getting done (at least not with a low mobility killer). Most matches where the killer wins is due to incompetent survivors who run around doing nothing and can't dedicate to gens. At rank 1 as survivor the game is too bloody easy. Doesn't matter how much skill a killer has, if I'm at a safe loop he's not getting me until he makes me drop the pallet, and by then there's gonna be gens popping like crazy. Not to mention survivors still have toolboxes (with BNP's) and the ability for them to work together on a single gen. The games I lose are almost always due to teammates who don't save people off hook until they're in 2nd stage or are incapable for whatever reason of doing gens. But there's always hatch and keys, which give me free escapes. Bloodlust is literally useless 99% of the time because by the time a killer receives bloodlust, it's a sign that they've already wasted too much time on a single chase. DS needed to be nerfed, if you can't see that then I don't know what to say. Literally being incapable of putting people on hooks was unbalanced as hell. Anyone who had trouble playing survivor back then or now is just a complete potato, plain and simple. Looping still exists and always will.
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He mentioned survivor nerfs like jungle gym and selfcare nerf which happened like 3 years ago lmao. Every basic jungle gym were near infinite. You must be full blown survivor main to call them "balanced"
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... Yes, no. Basically both at the same time.
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Depends on which side you ask ;)
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I play survivor at rank 1 too and often times entire teams go down in the game :) at rank 1
I also think that people really need to start reading patch notes and going through all the changes in the game removing the bug fixes aside from that. Balance and things added to the game are pretty heavy on the other side. Ive been a part of this community since july of 2016 I have seen every single change I have played since basically release BOTH sides. Balance updates have been almost always to fix survivors being too OP. Nerf after nerf map change after map change mechanic after mechanic. I have seen it all I have been here for it all, I am a veteran. I know what both sides feel like I know what it feels like to get absolutely dunked on by a survive with friends.
If you can give me some solid evidence of survivor buffs in more then just a handful of places you can win this argument. Legion almost killed the game if you remember correctly the analytics for the killer were insane I think we lost upwards of 10k players after the release of legion when people started to realize there was no counter play. Lobby dodge after lobby dodge when seeing that deep wound every match. Bring me solid proof my pattowan of buffs to survivors buffs that haven't been reverted buffs that are still consistent today.
Prove me wrong.
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Oh God. What have I done? I meant this to be a very civil conversation about whether or not the devs are survivor biased, but I should have realized that it would cause this big of an argument.
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So if you look at the release of killers, they seem to start op and get nerfed. The probable reason for this is to get people to buy the DLC for the killer and play the killer. To answer your question, yes. Nobody wants to play horror-movie-bad-guy-kills-you simulation.
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I mean, I kinda of want to. That's the reason I got DBD. I thought it was going to be more of a horror/survival PvP game. Instead, it's just... what it is now. There is no fear, no tension. There is the occasional jumpscare, but that's not proper fear, IMO. I want to be the prey as a survivor, not an equal to the killer. I want that fear of "oh god, please don't let him catch me" kind of desperation. That's why I love stealthy gameplay. It makes it feel like a horror game. I wish they would emphasize on this more.
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Stop doing conspiracy theories.
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The mechanic changes towards survivors were to prevent infinites, which had no counter play btw. Double pallets which had no mind game (lots of pallets still have no mind game to them) and god loops that don't even need pallets (Coal tower is a good example). Survivor buffs are rare, I'm not saying that survivors have received a plethora of buffs, I'm just pointing out that survivors have always had the power role, it just wasn't realized till the masses stared playing swf on a regular basis and learned how to loop. Oh and let's not forget about patch 1.9.2. (: it was definitely aimed at making survivors not OP. Legion was broken, I do agree, but now he's balanced (people who say he's too weak just don't know when to use Frenzy). I'm actually starting to wonder if you play survivor consistently or we just have very different games. At rank 1 (always solo) I have no problem playing, I could easily bully killers if I wanted to. The solid evidence is the game itself. Jungle gyms, god loops, killer shack, they're all still here. Toolboxes with BNP's, Prove Thyself, SWF with comms, survivors having a combined total of 20 perks vs 4 killer perks (best survivor kits outweigh a killer's best kit) and DC for hatch escape. BT, DS, Adrenaline, and DH. Flashlights, no more "insta-heals" but they're still powerful and have very little counter play. Killer bugs that have been problems for months now (sound bugs mainly) not even being addressed, yet DS bug instantly gets fixed because it's a game breaking bug (not like sounds are game breaking either, right? Killers don't need to hear anything). Oh and just pay attention to the Devs' attitudes towards killers in general. Remember MC saying "Go play survivor or play some civilization"? The game has never been for the killers, they've had some quality of life changes yet still primarily depend on survivors being potatoes in order to even pip (let alone get a 2K). Either that or they tunnel/slug/camp or force survivors to 3 gen themselves, even with S tier killers.
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Hands down this is my attitude with the game. And a lot of it comes from the majority of Survivor players don't want to struggle to survive or play 'stealthy'. They want to go toe-to-toe with the killer without the tension/ambient tension of worrying they will be found. In a perfect world, the killer would be roughly 4x more powerful than any single survivor - the odds of surviving 2-2 would be the average for matches with all four survivors alive; dropping as the survivors fell. Gameplay would have an emphasis on avoiding the killer and not wanting to be found and chased by him, instead of the "we need engaging games" focus that the game has now.
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I mean look at F13 though. That is more like what you want and it didn't last. Also, in DBD, there is no such thing as real stealth when you have to do 5 gens that are so well advertised to the killer. Killer is by definition op compared to survivors too. If you aren't scared at all in DBD, you probably would just develop a new norm in the game you want to play and think it wasn't scary becasue you don't see the killer enough or is boring because you go everywhere and do everything at a crawl.
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They listen to and try to appease killers more than they realize. Shame that people don't appreciate it. If you look at the killers/reworks after Plague most have been stronger consistently than what we had in previous years.
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*cough cough* legion
but forreal, you're right.
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I think one problem is that is bad like deve take too much time to make correction to balance the game. Now is evident that there is a problem with the speed of the match. Killer can chase only a surv at time, that can loop him for many seconds at gyms, meawhile gens almost insta pop. The problem is more evident on big maps with strong loops, and against strong survivor team. The results are matchmaking probems (speking clear, most people doesnt want to play the fragile role, surv or killer depends on patchs, when the game is not well balanced, they want to play the strong role), and unfun build/playng style (endgame with noed, camping, mori). First hope devs fast reduce big size maps and good loops, nerf keys and mori, buff weakest killers and balance decisive. And doing something for match duration. If the game will be more fair both role we can se more beautiful balance matches with less unfair plays.
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Proof that they are not:
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