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Nerf/buff DS
Nerf: make it 30 sekonds active and stun 3/4/5 seconds Unhooking, Gen repair, totem cleansing instantly disables DS.
Buff: make the timer stop when in a chase again and if downed while the timer still didnt run out make it so DS will be available after picking up anytime.
--> Buffed the anti tunneling aspect, nerfed the i am invincible aspekt with Locker, Unbreakable etc.
Unbreakeble would btw still be very good with DS if youre actually have been tunneled.
If the killer still wants to hardcore camp theres way more time by bleeding out to make your teammates do gens.
Comments
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Nerf:
Performing any action (except vaulting), getting caught in a Bear Trap, being the last survivior that is not Hooked/Downed/Dead DISABLES THE PERK
Every time you have your aura revealed to the Killer (includes Hags Traps), Killer downs a survivior or you become Healthy, TIMER IS DECRRASED BY 15 seconds.
Buff:
TIMER IS PAUSED while in chase.
No longer requires hitting a skillcheck.
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Pig is MUCH slower while croutching, Ghostface can be easy uncloaked if he chases you (even if hes undetectable your timer has 30 seconds, enough time to uncloak him) Myers tier 1 is extremely slow and honestly you could walk into him to get the timer paused, he couldnt do anything against it except from leaving you. Wraith is a point though but you still would have enough time to run to a pallet etc, wraith would be the only killer who kinda benefits, he only has to wait 30 seconds instead of 60.
This would prevent hardcore tunnelung, punishing it --> leading to less tunneling overall.
Both sides would benefit from that change.
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Issa no from me fam
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Add that hooking a different survivor deactivates it and now you got a deal. If I had time to down them, find someone else, down them as well, hook them and then still come back with no one having rescued them, that wasn't tunneling.
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Dude 30 seconds is plenty enough. I get not activating after downing and hooking but just hooking is so obviously abusable.
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Sounds good but what's up with the totem cleansing?
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Don't you agree that a camping meta would be boring? Imagine if the killer was rewarded for simultaneously camping two survivors. Camping 1 survivor = punish, camping 2 survivors = np go ahead dog
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That doesn't many any sense at all.
If someone else was hooked you weren't tunneled. It is still functioning as an anti-tunnel.
If he had time to do all those things and still come back to you lying there, you and your team misplayed tremendously. You aren't wanting an anti-tunnel perk, you are simply wanting a second chance perk to recover from a misplay.
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The only nerf DS need is - doing any actions other than healing oneself and moving away from killer should deactivate DS.
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Just make it so if your healed or the killer hooked someone else it wears off. Then it will be perfect.
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Do you think Blood Warden shouldn't block survivors who could've escaped at any time? Second chances are allowed, no matter how "unfair" you think it is that you aren't allowed to tunnel.
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30 seconds is meaningless if it pauses when on the ground or in chase. Might as well make it 2 minutes, it's irrelevant at that point.
He needs the slug not for the hook, but for the pressure to force another survivors to get off a gen and come get you. Not slugging means he is causing zero pressure and losing gens.
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I never said they weren't allowed. I simply said "second chance" perks should be reworked to be more restrictive imo.
Since you bring up Blood Warden, I actually am including killer second chance perks when I say this. I'm not only talking about survivor, survivor just simply happens to have a lot more of them and they are a lot stronger.
Blood Warden is a weak/meme perk in general.
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What? What does that have to do with not even having to chase another survivor to disable an anti-tunneling perk?
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Agreed. They need to only activate in the situations they were designed to counteract.
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Because you aren't seeing why DS needs to deactivate from another hook. It creates pressure and forces another survivor to come get them.
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I agree.
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I'd say no to that, just because if you're a solo survivor, and you're playing with a potato who does a massively unsafe unhook, they can have another survivor on the hook in under 10 seconds. If you add another survivor on the hook turning it off, the killer no longer needs to make the hard choice of chase or not, because they have a injured survivor right there, and no ads to stop them.
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So if the killer applies pressure they're allowed to tunnel? I'm not getting it yet. Why won't you just relent and say the killer has to down and hook a survivor and not just hook them?
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"So if the killer applies pressure they're allowed to tunnel? I'm not getting it yet."
No, there has to be a risk that their DS will deactivate if he hooks another survivor because if there is not then the team will leave him there and just continue rushing the gens. Hence no pressure.
So it needs to be deactivated so they feel pressure to come save, not because the killer needs the hook on them.
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So you don't want an anti-tunnel perk, you want an anti-potato teammate perk.
Punishing the killer for bad teammates doesn't sound fun or fair.
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Oh so you're saying you want this change specifically so slugging applies more pressure? I wouldn't be against it I suppose, but many survivors regard it as a boring strategy.
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DS will never be changed.
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Exactly! The threat of possibly being hooked has to be present for it to create the pressure.
I'd like slugging not to be as needed so we can all have more fun, but the only way to really create enough pressure right now is by in fact slugging. Hopefully they make changes to alter that but I'm working with the cards we are currently dealt.
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Really? I thought they mentioned it needed some tuning.
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No, I'm beyond irritated with the current "I'm invincible for 60 seconds, deal with it" version. But at the same time, I've taken down enough potatoes trying what I described that I can see the issue a solo would have. He's being tunneled out of the game, getting to second state because of something out of their control. My personal favorite version someone came up with was you kept the 60 seconds, but it turned off if you did anything other than run, heal, or hide, giving you enough time to get back on your feet, protecting you from potatoes and griefers who will pull you free at a bad time, but much harder to use as a weapon. Only change I would have made was that it also wouldn't trigger off a locker grab, so it would go to a purely defensive perk.
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"It does, if you down me right after I get unhooked, then down someone else and hook the both of us you kinda still tunneled lol."
No, if he chased someone else, downed them, hooked them and came back to find you STILL lying there you were not tunneled. You were slugged for pressure and your team left you there.
"How is it gonna be my misplay if you face camp me and hit me right after I get unhooked or if I get farmed by someone else or if nobody picks me up at all?"
Your teammate farming you and your teammates leaving you on the ground are your TEAMS misplays. You are asking the killer to get punished for your team playing badly. This is why I said, "You aren't wanting an anti-tunnel perk, you are simply wanting a second chance perk to recover from a misplay."
"So, my other question is do you realize that some of us are solo survivors and we can't communicate with our teammates?"
I play strictly solo at rank 1 and don't have any issues for the most part.
"If ds got nerfed to that point it would literally be useful for swfs but useless for solo survivors, so yeah I'm totally against it because I play solo and because it would also make face camping with Bubba and Billy way too easy."
No, almost everything is just simply better for SWF in general, nothing about this in particular. A teammate can see you slugged on the ground while the killer is chasing someone else. If you don't wanna rely on them run the myriad of anti-slug perks. It would not make facecamping for those 2 killers better unless your team is being bad and the killer shouldn't be punished for your team being bad. I run into any killer seriously "face camping" at rank 1 maybe once every few days and I play all day every day. Most "camps" are proximity and those are easily manageable with good play.
"Both survivors and killers need second chance perks and if you want to nerf ds ok then let's nerf noed or devour or blood warden as well, all of em second chance perks for killers."
I disagree, second chance perks are very unhealthy for the game. I actually hate NOED and want it reworked as well now that you bring that up. Those are actually strong second chance perks. I have no idea why you'd even mention DH or BW, those aren't strong enough to matter in terms of second chance perks. They are literally perks to meme with.
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Imagine saying Devour Hope or Blood Warden are second chance perks.
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"from a misplay."
A misplay, I never said a misplay YOU did.
"Yes, I obviously want a second chance perk that allows me to not depend on my teammates because I'm a solo survivor."
It's a team game. For you it may be a 1v1, but for the killer it's a 4v1. Balancing for the 1v1 with second chance perks ruins the balance in the 4v1 which is why the game is in the bad balance state it is in the first place. The killer has to be much stronger in the 1v1 and second chance perks mess that up.
"So your logic is: the killer shouldn't be punished because he didn't do the misplay, but the survivor who just got unhooked should because his team did the misplay, even though it wasn't his fault that his teammates made a terrible play he still deserves to get punished right?"
Yes, because whether you like it or not, it is a team game. None of ya'll are winning the game solo. Now we can add perks to alleviate bad teammate plays, I'm not saying that can't exist. What I am saying is that the versions we currently have are way too strong at doing that.
"Well I do, I play on console and matchmaking is so broken, not having ds is like not having a slow down perk as killer. Just because you don't have any issues doesn't mean everybody else doesn't either."
This is a problem with current matchmaking that will be fixed, it is temporary. We should not be balancing an entire perk around a temporary problem that is getting fixed.
"I have had many games where I get slugged but my potato teammates decide to do gens instead of picking me up, happens quite frequently on console tbh. What I'm trying to say here dude is, until the ranking and matchmaking systems get fixed, ds will still be in a good spot."
This is a problem with current matchmaking that will be fixed, it is temporary. We should not be balancing an entire perk around a temporary problem that is getting fixed.
"Triggering blood warden with noed can literally get you a 4k if the survivors don't realize you have it"
That's why I don't like NOED, similar reasons to DS. I want it reworked. That isn't an issue with Blood Warden. BW in itself is quite weak and highly situational.
"devour is actually really strong when it triggers and with certain killers you can protect it and make sure it doesn't get cleansed."
9/10 games DH is doing absolutely nothing and getting cleanses early. The 1 time is doesn't get cleansed it will when you the game. Majority of the time it is vastly unreliable and not worth it which is why it's rarely ran other than for the meme's.
"The reason I call them second chance perks is because those perks can literally give the killer a chance to win even if the game's nearly lost for them, blood warden not so much but noed and devour are incredibly powerful when they trigger."
The difference is DH is rewarding you for hugging the totem early and protecting it. I wouldn't classify that in the same area as NOED which is asking you to cleanse ALL the totems and you really aren't protecting them, aka doing nothing for its effect.
"And I honestly disagree, second chance perks are needed."
They can exist, their current forms are just vastly too strong. They ask nothing skillful of the player, have zero downsides, force the killer to play inefficiently whether you use it or not and come with game swinging effects.
They need to be either much more situational for their specific intended use, have a cost, be less game swinging, or at least ask something of the survivor for the effect.
A good example of this is Deliverance. It's considered a very strong perk, but it has a cost (getting a safe rescue before you get your first hook) and is situational in the sense that you might not have that happen.
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Do you know what second chance perk is? Its a perk, that gives you a chance to defeat the enamy WHILE YOU ARE LOSING.
DS does that, NOED too.
BW can also be called "second chance", but it requires a hook in EGC to trigger, so not 100% that easy to use. Also its so situational in the 99% gate meta that its nothing to worry about.
Devour is NOT a second chance perk, because it requires you to work for it, and it does not trigger when you are losing, it triggers when you are winning. Not to mention what you cant defend the totem while losing.
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Make it deactivate when you perform an action such as doing a generator or enter a locker. All DS does is punish good killers because they're capable of ending chases quickly.
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AS SOON AS YOU GET TOKENS
If you get tokens and the totem is still standing then you are not losing.
You may be not crushing your enemy completely, you may be even getting pushed back and losing momentum, but you are definitely not losing. If you were losing, then as soon as you somehow got the first instadown, the totem would immediately be cleansed.
Losing 3 gens in current meta is not losing, you can lose 3 gens in the early mid game...
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