Give DS the Pig EGC Treatment
After watching someone else's post of the art of tunneling 3 survivors. I have to say the DS during EGC is probably the most BS thing I have seen in DBD next to vacuum pallets. Either change it so it deactivates when the killer downs another survivor or pick them up or let it be deactivated all together like pigs RBT.
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In that post they only lost their kill because of a small overstep, DS doesn't guarantee free escapes, it just makes trading during egc less risky.
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Doesn't matter, the killer was punished for not tunneling when the DS rework was reworked with the idea of not being tunneled, granting the survivor a second chance for playing like garbage.
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DS is a free endgame escape that’s true but then NOED is a free endgame kill.
Had a game the other day where NOED kicked in and the killer gets 2 free kills from it. I used DS and managed to escape.
In a weird kind of way, the game is balanced.
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When were they not tunneling? At the end didn't they literally down a guy and try to immediately rehook them?
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So in a weird kinda way, it's balanced if the killer brings NOED and a totem is lit.... -_-
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The only change that I believe it could use is to deactivate when you perform any action related to Altruism or Objective (except Pig boxes).
Gosh, I sure did tunnel that guy after 50 seconds of him holding M1.
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It's crutch perk rework both ds and NOED. Remove NOED for all I care.
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100% agree
Congrats you just listed 2 unrealistic counters to certain perks that aren't skill based. Well played.
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Bro, seriously. Quit it with the "Skill" because your view on it is flawed and catered to serve your own ego.
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######### them both really.
At least NOED is not so meta and you cant say that you brought it just to "counter tunneling" or some other wild excuse, its loke Ebony Mori.
But yeah, fix them both already.
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Breaking useless DULL TOTEMS is unrealistic.
Tunneling people just in case they have DS is also unrealistic. People literally TUNNEL TO COUNTER ANTI TUNNEL PERK
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So that's your counterpoint to my argument? I'm just feeding my ego that my busted second chance perks are very skill based? I don't run perks that aren't skill based like Adrenaline or DS, but if I did what's the problem? The problem is it's effortless difficulty reduction to the game, which you could argue is what BT is. My thoughts about BT are that it takes skill to let your teammate bodyblock you until they get to a loop. That is actually surprisingly difficult.
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Neither NOED nor DS currently require any skill to use, whats your problem really.
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No offense, but if you find body blocking surprisingly difficulty, then you just suck at the game.Over half the things you can do in this game literally take no skill. The only thing i would argue taking skill is Huntress and Nurse. Like i said before, your idea of "Skill" is subjective. If you think it takes skill to hold M1 for 80 seconds or hit a big skill check when picked up, more power to you.
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Lazy Snowflakes are my problem
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There we go then you have your counter. Eat DS early.
Certainly faster than running around the map looking for 5 totems.
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The video in that thread is incomplete. So, I refrain from judgement. Anything that is anti-tunneling endgame is very powerful, but that's because tunneling itself becomes more powerful endgame. Of course, the two effects will go hand in hand.
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I meant bodyblocking into a loop and getting a clean break...about as skill based as positioning and landing a flashlight save I would argue, which doesn't take too much skill but does take actual thought and effort. Probably more thought required than bbq or self care.
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How are totems unrealistic?
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They're just as unrealistic as eating a DS early/mid game. You see it in extreme situations: extreme survivor control and extreme killer control respectively.
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If by "lazy snoflakes" you mean people that want their perks to help them without doing nothing and reward them for playing bad, then we are cool.
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Both are extremely dumb counters.
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We cool then, DS, Unbreakable, BT take no effort at all.
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The difference being that eating DS early isnt countering it, just using it up at a more opportune time (assuming the survivor decides to use it). DS is still getting value, even if eaten early whereas NOED being cleansed robs it of value.
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Not to mention that you are running a game with essentially 3 perks since NOED has no value while gens are up.
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Hmm yea survivors wasting 70+ seconds off gens...noed didn't do any work I guess. They were off of gens because of the mystical fae that influenced their minds from the Far Realms right? Pesky fae...
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No thank you.
Killers in the EGC are supposed to be hard to secure. You already allowed survivors to do gens, you can't expect free kills in the endgame.
DS is only strong in the endgame when 4 people are still alive. It's already a defeat in my book as killer when that happens.
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You should publish that book to the devs so they can get rid of all the end game perks and just cut to the result screen when the last gen pops.
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Meh, that can be said about any perk thats not ongoing. A survivor running DS can easily say the same thing, that they were only using 3 perks until so and so condition happens.
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That's not even what I'm saying. I'm saying
- I PERSONALLY consider it a loss if I'm not competent enough to kill anyone before the last gens pop
- Kills SHOULD be hard to secure in that scenario. You can still do it if you outplay the survivors. There are plenty of builds that pretty much guarantee a late game kill (STBFL or NOED if you really want to make sure you kill at least one person). But if all the survivors managed to get to the end game alive that part of the game should favor them, just like it massively favors the killer if they manage to kill 2 people before the last gen is popped.
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Feel like that would be more appropriate to compare ppl slugging to avoid DS as opposed to eating it. Your spending time in an effort to avoid the perk activating. Your not activating NOED earlier or anything. I'm not telling you "Well, just get 1 shot when you can afford it better".
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Slugging isn't always a waste of time, but neither are dull totems so I guess you have a solid point. Kind of nitpicky though, but I can't be one to complain.
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Wrong because even if you dont execute DS on a killer, you still got value from it because the killer didnt go after you.
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@LordGlint If survivors run around cleansing all 5 totems then you do get value out of it. That buys the killer a heck of a lot of time.
@cipherbay_ And if the killer doesn’t pick up within 60 seconds then survivors are basically running 3 perks all game.
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Isn't tunneling actually weaker endgame? They only need to run to an open Exit Gate or an Exit Gate that someone can just open from 99% to make the escape.
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Feel like a good comparison for "eating the DS earlier" is if I told you to counter Spirit fury+enduring by just getting hit when its better rather than working towards not activating it at all. Frankly, if killers could deactivate strong survivor perks by just breaking a totem...they probably would. Would be a good way of recycling those lanterns from the year of the boar event. Imagine if each survivor was assigned a lantern, and breaking said lantern could guarantee you wouldnt get hit by that particular DS. You wouldnt KNOW which survivor's lantern you broke, so unless you broke all 4 lanterns, you couldn't be 100% sure the survivor infront of you could still have it or not. Just spit balling here.
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Hmm that would be a good way to prevent tunneling in the basekit, should DS ever get the MoM treatment.
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That idea would be amazing, it would discourage tunneling and at the same time remove a BS perk
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Just imagining a survivor with an active DS jumping in a locker, only to see the killer break the lantern next to it and the perk icon going dark, lol.
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If you truly want it gone yes. Certainly better than searching for and cleansing 5 totems.
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I think making DS deactivate if you are not tunneled is an easier and more fair solution, but Hex: DS could be fun in a way.
By not tunneled I mean:
- Started actions (except vaulting)
- All other surviviors are dead/slugged/hooked
- Another DS got activated
- Caught in a Bear Trap
- 2 other surviviors were downed in the meantime (-30s of the timer per down)
That would solve it I think. And you can still use the DS offensively if you tbag the killer and he is dumb enough.
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I hear ya, I was just presenting that since people often times talk about having to spend time looking for and breaking totems. Feel like killers would LOVE the option of having something to break so they wouldnt have to worry about getting hit by some of the strongest survivor perks. What would we call survivor "Hex" perks? Hex is a bad thing, so youd wanna go for something "good".
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I've been wanting this change for ages. Not only would it no punish killers for literally no reason at all, but it would put some actual thought in trying to escape during the EGC. Maybe they 99 the exit gates so the guy coming off the hook still has their DS for a bit, maybe survivors would actually have to bodyblock and help the one who's unhooked instead of that survivor just holding W and getting out for free. Eating the DS earlier in the match is hardly a counter to it either. Getting hit by DS in the early game makes a killer lose so much pressure and they've probably already lost.
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Really? With the gate opened, and a 60 second timer on DS...and a 5 second stun on DS...it doesn't guarantee an escape?
That's asinine.
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Right but since camping exists the unhooker isn't getting saved anytime soon.
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Borrowed time exists, as does mettle of man. Not getting saved?
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No it's not. It's only unrealistic because only one person does it. If all 4 did it you'd have them wiped out in under 40 seconds.
You can also crouch x times to say how many you've done.
There are times I've done 4 and then noed starts because no one did the 5th.
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Searching for 5 totems as a team that spawn in the same locations and are often close to a gen.
Only one person has to do 2 totems. That's not a lot of time or effort.
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I'm fine with hex survivor perks. Even though there could potentially be 12.
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