Scott Jund's Trial Warmup, FIXED!
While Scott Jund's idea has merits, it is fundamentally BROKEN!
Why is it broken? Because the chase mechanic is 100% unreliable. Why do you think Mend no longer uses it. Instead, change the mechanic to PauseEnd when a player is downed. When any downed player gets up, the mechanic Resumes in full effect. The only way to permanently End the effect, is to hook a survivor. Once the first survivor is hooked, and the Pause/End phase-out is over, the game plays as it currently does.
Pause/End should linearly phase-out the mechanic over 15 seconds, while Resume should phase-in the mechanic within 1 second. That is how you balance the mechanic, and there would not be any possible way to abuse it.
EDIT: It appears that many people aren't able to think outside the box. Stealth play is greatly enhanced by this, but people like Scott aren't able to comprehend stealth play. Removing the hooking requirement and changing to just the first down, is an option that only 1 person has voiced, and is a perfectly viable option. Scott's idea depends upon fallible conditions, that are not easy to compute. This solution depends upon binary conditions, where there is no possibility of mistake.
Comments
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Agreed
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Yeah chases are super buggy, making it so it just straight up lasts until first down or hook aside from the timer would be pretty decent.
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Gen speeds are fine. You only get gen rushed if you are chasing 1 survivor for minutes at a time and refuse to break chase.
If it is taking them minutes to go down, they are better than you. If you can't find a single survivor in the whole game who you can down in a reasonable amount of time, the entire lobby is better than you, and you deserve to lose.
Simple, really.
Scott is a huntress main so it's no wonder he is complaining he can't slap on the braindead ruin and now actually gets punished for mis-positioning his 110 killer on the map.
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That would not be fair to survivors. You can't penalize survivors just because the killer is bad and can't down or hook people. It would also heavily encourage and in fact reward excessive slugging. Even if it gets disabled when a survivor is downed, it would start back up when the survivor is picked, meaning the killer could go around slugging everyone, keeping them injured, and then once everyone is injured and at a bad spot, then he will start hooking.
The more complex you make it the more abusable it becomes. This would be way too strong.
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I'm not a Huntress main and perhaps someday people will realize I'm not complaining for myself I'm complaining for the 99% of other people who don't have the luxury of playing this game for a living.
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Ah, yes, it is my fault that as I'm hauling my ass across the map to the furthest gen that it gets popped before I even get there.
You've obviously never played killer at red ranks, don't even try to defend yourself lmfao
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You obviously didn't read what I posted. Once a survivor is downed, the effect is Paused. This will have not help a slugging killer in any way, unless the survivors play poorly. In which case, you're going to lose anyway.
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The irony of saying I didn't read your post when you didnt read where I addressed that.
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The top killers still absolutely demolish almost any solo Q team, barring a really unfavorable map.
Killers still have so many crutches they can put on. Be it add-ons, entire characters (freddy, nurse, spirit), perks, moris, hawkins/lery offerings, etc.
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"Barring a really unfavorable map" is the key modifier here considering the majority are unfavorablr for killer
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This system is also completely flawed. Killer brings a mori, tunnels that survivor and gets a free win.
Otherwise I get downed immediately so I don't waste anything. Then the good survivors just proceed to loop the killer forever. That early hook will make absolutely no difference in the end if the killer isn't good enough.
Scott's suggestion isn't great either. The game needs to incentivise survivors to do more than just gens.
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Good fix man, nevermind, Scott made me look braindead
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I think you drastically underestimate the snowball effect of an early hook. That being said, this isn't intended to solely fix the game. Its meant to be a very minor thing that addresses some issues while being very easy to implement so its more of a "why NOT add this until maps are all fixed"
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Again, you don't seem to understand game mechanics. I don't care that you're a professional streamer, but you might want to think outside the box every once in a while. Your so called method of slugging and reviving, would be a bad play by survivors. But then you don't like stealthy play. Sorry, but you don't know everything, and neither do I, but I do know that this is easy to implement, and would be fair.
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..what? I didn't even see a counter argument there you just basically said I dont know what I'm talking about and adressed nothing.
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no
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ok then
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ok then
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Hey Scott, I believe your idea is pretty good, just a few things I want to add to sweeten the deal:
- The TWU affects all survivors.
- Survivors who remain within 32 meters to the killer while not running will slowly lose the debuff from the TWU. 50% penalty to 0% penalty over a 10 second duration.
- Once the killer performs a hunting action such as chasing, hitting, downing, or grabbing survivors — all survivors are freed from the TWU.
- Survivors affected by TWU will glow (just like the lunar event), killers don't see the glowing effect.
Off-Topic:
Huge fan, keep up the videos and I love your personality! ❤
Your cats are adorable too! 🐱
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Yes, make the effect go away with the first down.
A billy/nurse/oni with IF, would almost have a free win from there.
Got any statistics on that?
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A proper build and play-style on any killer can mitigate it greatly. Killers like demo, hag, trapper, etc are all incredibly good at hanging onto a 3 gen. Someone like hag/demo might even be too good at it, if you have cleared out all the pallets nearby.
Someone like huntress has no map pressure but you ignore half the loops in the game so that is the price you pay.
It's like people playing M1 killers complaining about god-windows when there is a perk that completely shuts down almost all god-windows, the shack, cow tree, and almost every single jungle gym if used correctly.
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Yes an early hook makes a massive difference to the game but it all depends on the quality of the killer or if they are using a mori. If they get that free hook then they can tunnel down the survivor and get someone out of the game before the team has really any chance to do anything.
But on the same note I think just giving the killer a free hook before any pallets are used doesn't do a lot. Solo teams could have a few problems but a coordinated team I still believe won't get too badly affected by giving the killer a free hook.
Your chase idea I like the thought process behind it but I don't think it helps against a good team. If this was implemented one member of my team would go get the killers attention, then we rush gens. If the killer gets a free hit then it all depends on the killer if they can somehow down the survivor. I've personally had games where I got injured immediately and proceeded to loop the killer for 4 or 5 gens and that was before the change to ruin.
Maps need to be reworked immediately. Keys and moris need to be nerfed at the same time. Adding your idea would help a bit but not enough, especially against a good team. It's a bad sign atm where my team escapes and we say we were dominated. We know the killer was really good, ended chases quickly but just couldn't get any kills because of the balance of the game.
Sorry this is really long, just wanted to explain my points.
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It's a interesting idea but some killers would get a bit too much of a buff from this. Plague could have everyone broken before commiting without worry, Pig could just follow people with active traps until they die, Legion could also get everyone injured before commiting. Oni could just wait until he gets a perfect snowball from his power by letting slugs get back up if he only gets a single down. The same could apply with Billy or Nurse. Myers becomes the most OP killer in the game using his infinite tier 3 tombstone combo since he has all the time in the world now. Even just standard infinite tier 3 would be busted.
Some perks would see a major boost such as save the best for last since you could get 8 stacks before commiting.
I think this would actually encourage slugging as well. You'd slug one person and go find someone else on a gen, the slug gets up while you're chasing someone else, gens are now awful and you rinse and repeat until everyone has bled out. When survivors notice the killer is slugging and never hooking, they will only focus on gens and probably just let the guy bleed out on the ground since it's the most effective strategy at that point. It'd become the equivalent of getting facecamped. Sucks for that guy it's happening to but it's gen time now. Worst part being you could do this with any killer fairly effectively. You could also simply never down anyone and get every pallet thrown on the map which becomes very unfair for survivors once you start to actually play.
Even if it's changed to where 1 down will end the effect for good, killers like Plague and especially Myers would become pretty annoying and unfair to play against.
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Honestly, I agree with this. I have instances especially in the Cornfield start because apparently the game registered a Claudette pixel in the distance.
I'm sitting here wondering whether hell the game managed to find someone as I can't see any scratch marks or any indication that people are around.
Game: hey, I found a survivor, time to initiate Chase.
Me: Hey game, I'd love to, only downside is I'd love to find this mystical survivor myself because from my point of view all I can see is corn
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How do you do the spoiler thing?
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Then, click on Spoiler.
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Actually he's an Oni main now KEKW
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Scott gave 3 conditions.
1 was the chase
but there are 2 more:
- Survivor within 4 meters
- Survivor loses a health state
Unlike chases those 2 are much more reliable and can act as failsafes just in case.
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Nah I'd just prefer it to end with the first down, not resume until they get hooked cause that can be exploited to the killer's advantage.
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OK, thanks 👍
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No problem, I'm happy to help! 😁
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I don't like the idea, since the problem with early game is not finding the first survivor. It's true it might help Trappers or hags, but it will do nothing for the rest of the killers. The problem is that there is 0 map pressure at the begining of the match. This could be fixed by making the survivor go fetch something (for instance a highlighted toolkit, like freddy's clocks) before sitting on a gen. It will also help the killer find someone, since everyone will be traversing the map to get the toolkit.
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Scott's idea was much more simple and straight forward.
I don't like this idea at all. Why should the killer have an even bigger advantage right at the start?
Slugging is a luxury and heavily already used.
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How about perma T3 Myers?
Slugging pauses it but also means someone would generally go for the save. Slug two and you can easily snowball especially with one hit down killers.
Personally Scott's idea while also needs a bit of tweaking with other things is a lot more fair for both sides.
Allowing someone to be hooked first is not a good idea as instantly you can effectively pressure at least two people off of gens.
The whole idea of the initial mechanic was to simply allow the time to setup or find a survivor to then start the normal speed of the game.
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All this does is make slugging meta. Scott's idea is infinitely better.
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lmfao "slugging is a heavily abused luxury" sure except there's like 3 perks in the game that utterly negate it, and if they have DS you can't really avoid them either.
Not to mention they could just get healed, at least on the hook you get a notification on the where/when they were helped out.
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That wouldn't work because of free injures and stalks.
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I would go with first injure, personally, as I would want to avoid creating a situation where the first survivor does well on their first chase but the team is penalized for it because gen speed was slower the whole time. I also would want to avoid situations where the killer injures multiple people but the game hasn't started properly yet because none of them have been downed.
I think if someone is injured, that's inarguably a mark that the game has started, and should be good enough to kick off the trial proper.
The only problem I can think of is that there is now probably a coefficient out there detailing an estimated chase time + pallets used per second time, in which, if achievement is a reasonable possibility, makes it so it is now better for the first survivor to take a hit and do the first chase injured, than to do part of the chase healthy and the rest injured. I don't know if that number will be significant but if it is then I would be uncomfortable adding that mechanic into my game. (It's maths problems like these that make me glad I'm not a professional Game Designer).
Otherwise Myers' ability to stalk and delay the trial start until tier 3 could also pose a problem, but you could add the addendum that stalking to tier 2 also counts in addition to the base requirements if a similar maths solution to the above does indeed show that he may be a problem.
Regardless, I think some sort of trial warmup would be a good addition, and also add to the games atmosphere greatly if introduced with care. I would be epic watching the lighting changing etc, almost as if the killer "has arrived", similar to how it was in deathwatch.
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Yeah I can agree with first injure as long as it doesn't bug out with bs like No Mither.
I'd rather this idea than just making every map super small, but I guess either option works but the spawns for totems and other interactibles should be way more random with better placement.
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Trial warmup would be a good thing because its almost adding a passive Old ruin to the beginning of the game. Won't fix game ballance for sure, but its a good idea.
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If it was implemented this way, killers like Myers may as well not have this warm-up phase at all since the effect would be minimal. He can't do anything about survivors hiding 32m away from him and 10 seconds isn't a long time at all. Stealth is already an annoying playstyle to both killers and other survivors and this also just makes it more complicated than it needs to be. It should be simple imo.
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I'm going to respond, since I assume you read my comment from your wording.
It is an abused luxury. You literally don't have to do anything just leave survivors on the floor and u got someone off a gen, and apply pressure to the rest of the team etc.
Unbreakable can only be used 1 time. Slugging can be done multiple times there is no punishment for it. And as for DS... guess what? Slugging counters it up to 100% guarantee.
But go ahead, carry on. please.
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So a plague would be able to run around infecting players and writing until all four are broken, with the gens slowed down the whole time? Plus on top of the built in slow down she could run Thanatphobia too.
Also Doctor could put everyone into madness 2 before starting to actually try to down people.
You didn’t think out your “fix,” very well. I’m sure there are more situations but those two popped into my head immediately.
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You say “no possible way to be abused,” how about with @ScottJund main killer Oni? He could literally choose to never down anyone and just injure them letting giant pools of blood build up. When he decides to start the real game he’ll have enough blood all over the map to be permanently in his rage.
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Good idea, bhvr didn't come up with it so will never be implemented.
Does not solve time waste on huge maps like mothers dwelling so is still useless on them.
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I actually like this idea, maybe all 4 survs have to find highlighted wrenches individually randomly scattered across the map before working on a gen. It's balanced in a way that killers have to find survivors anywhere, not just look at one of the farthest gens from where you spawn while survivors on the other hand just have to hide at the meantime while obtaining the wrench. That, and if they fix map size i genuinely think this game could be in a good shape.
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Personally I think adding a perk like this would fix a lot of problems such as noed and setting up as killer during early game.
Hex: Hide And Seek: All totems on the map have the hex applied to it. The game starts with a 15/20/25% penalty to all action speeds. Every totem cleansed reduces this action speed penalty by 3/4/5%. This hex perk trumps all other hex related perks.
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I'm a Rank 1 killer main who thinks gens go too fast. I like Scotts idea, its literally all we need to get things rolling. i would expand it by making it so the gens just can't be done until after it is over, then rework CI into something else, or do a similar effect, but happen after the warmup.
Your idea is ridiculous and OP. Once the first down happens the game slows down immensely. The problem is having 3 gens pop before that first down happens. We don't need your idea. it is too OP.
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A lot of players wanted stealth to be involved in this new mechanic.
I believe my idea is fair because it promotes stealth and allows survivors to bait killers. You can tap a generator and hide nearby for the killer's arrival, technically the killer found someone but couldn't find them, that survivor hiding should be rewarded for making a play.
This doesn't complicate the system at all, it just adds a different playstyle for survivors to use during the early game. 😁
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With all due respect, your position is inconsistent. Those 99% of people you talk about want the game balanced around the top players, that's the whole inflamed debate that originated from the ruin nerf. You're a top player. You absolutely demolish 90-ish+ % of the teams you verse and so do the other top killers, without Ruin or any of the changes you're suggesting.
You could talk to that 99% you want to give a voice to and explain them that maybe they aren't as good killers as they think they are.
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