The Hillbilly Problem
Comments
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Don't ever remember getting anything points related to precison on Hillbilly so let's hush down with the idea that it takes skill to play this brain dead killer.
If you want to have skill play huntress and nurse. Only two killers that take actual skill and aim to Master.
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Doing gens only requires you to hold a button and nothing else
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If you think that Billy is OP you're ######### delusional
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Honestly survivors and map size dictate which killers are top tier.
The reason why Billy is top tier is because he hits all the right check marks
He can dramatically cut down chase times with the chainsaw. Either by breaking pallets or hitting the survivor with the chainsaw.
He can traverse the map quickly. Letting him engage with survivors more often.
However these things take practice on Billy so its not like a brand new player is going to queue up as Hillbilly and take on a team of red rank survivors.
Which takes me to my next point. Which is probably the most important thing people should consider when talking about hillbilly changes; he has COUNTERPLAY.
It's not hard to force a billy to resort to basic attacks.
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Where did I say he was OP?
Please, show me.
I said he was too easy to play for the high reward. If you extrapolated this as "Billy is OP", then you are the delusional one evidentally.
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But can he do yes-yes with the proboscis, though? Because the Clown can.
Post edited by Acromio on0 -
If billy is 5m in front of you and downs you, you were out of position. Killers capitalize on survivor mistakes. Billy is so each to juke in the open, he has to get on your butt and back rev. If you are THAT far away from anything usable, its your fault. Billy is balanced, he suffers greatly on many maps, he can't shut down alot of the infinites out there. He is perfect where he's at.
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You just killed your own argument. Games are supposed to be balanced around the most skilled players, NOT the least.
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If you're saying he needs a nerf, you're basically saying hes too strong, aka OP.
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Where did I say he needs a nerf?
Again, please show me.
I said that other killer should be brought up to him, not bring him down to their level.
Stop twisting my words and just let this thread die. I've got what I wanted.
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I agree wholeheartedly with the original comment. Billy players required the less amount of time to master his ridiculous OverPowered abilities. He has the fastest mobility and the end result involves an instadown. Why would players use Oni or Leatherface, even with Oni's flick restored, he still has to earn his powers and they only lasts so long. And Leatherface may be the weakest killer unless you play like streamer Pug and basement camp. Those two killers are the primitive form of Hillbilly. It's despicable. All other killers need to refill or good get more "powers" from a locker (Huntress) or go retrap a new area (Hag, Trapper, etc).
Give Hillbilly a cooldown already. There is no real fun to be had on both sides of the game when you encounter a tryhard Hillbilly. A cooldown or reduced base speed and remove insta-saw addons. Medicore and up to the best Hillbilly players have no counterplay. Oh, and throw in a Ebony Mori in the mix, just for kicks.
And to those who think like the Devs; Hillbilly shouldn't be the poster child of game balance. There are other ways to balance to game out such as: Increase generator times, buff other killers speeds or abilities, close window vaults sooner when in chase, rework near-endless loops etc.
I know the Devs don't play their own game here, but I challenge them to play or witness to four best survivors match up against any somewhat decent killer with god addons and meta perks. If you think that match equals your so called "balance" then I guess I'll uninstall.
Also, I'm primarily a survivor main with over 1500 hours, with killer gameplay across the board. I am no where near a master killer but one doesn't have to be good to succeed when using Hillbilly.
I await your responses and look forward to the feedback.😎
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Players saying that the learning curve on Billy's mechanics aren't easy are simply lying to themselves and anyone else they are trying to convince. Billy equals no skill. Broken AF
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Imagine to have 1500hrs in the game and be so bad that you are unable to loop a killer. Pathetic af.
Billy OP!!!! Pls send help, lul.
Regarding Cooldown
So many addons that decrease a cooldown, which you didn't even know existed. Sorry come again 1500 hrs? 🤣 I am not buying it, kiddo.
Post edited by Endstille on4 -
They can't nerf Billy because then who would fly?
10/10 Will let Billy insta-saw me any time as long as he's willing to do so while soaring through the skies.
Billy is fine where he's at. When he screws up you can punish him for it. When he's on top of things, he's deadly. Which is exactly how a Killer SHOULD be.
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I'm not calling for nerfs. The only nerf I want is a full-body disembowelment of Insta-saw.
And that this one killer with all but stealth is way too easy base for what he has.
If a Billy wants to saw me and be proud about it, HE CAN EARN IT! Force me out into the open or snipe me. Don't just wait until you're in M1 range to charge.
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Hillbilly nerf could be ok after massive map reworks, no way they could take us away our last fortress to have fun games, keep this in mind mrs. Kate. Killers want fun as well as their opponents.
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However, just because you don't agree with OP's opinion doesn't mean you can be disrespectful to OP by giving unconstructive feedback such as "Thank you. Now I don't have to read the post." — it's unnecessary and doesn't further the discussion at all.
I encourage you, as well as everyone else who's on your train, to participate and debate why OP's opinion is flawed. Perhaps something good can come from this discussion, if you let it. 😁
This is a forum, after all, you're supposed to debate topics.
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I've tried in about a quarter of the posts on here to get people to debate me, rather than just "GiT gUd, HiGh SkIlL pLaY! fLiCkS! uSe WaLlS aNd VaUlTs!" I wouldn't write this if I hadn't, also I can't flick because I'm a console player who refuses M&KB or to change from the default sensitivity. And this is about Hillbilliy's skill floor vs. reward. Something that NOBODY HAS DEBATED.
I know that I have radical ideas, and that my observed opinions will differ wildly from other people. It's fine. People are entitled to their opinion.
At least you have the decency to show me a modicum of respect.
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No. 100 times no. PLEASE no. Please STOP trying to get Billy nerfed into the floor. Can killers have at least just ONE killer you can't "M1+W to win" against?
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I think it’s funny that he says this because for me Billy is the hardest killer in the game to master. I have a much easier time with Nurse & this is coming from someone who plays on console.
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You didn't read my post at all.
I NEVER CALLED FOR A NERF. The only nerf I want is total removal of insta-saw.
All I have ever said is that Hillbilly is too easy to pick up for the reward you get, he shouldn't be the focus of balance and if he MUST BE then every other killer besides Freddy, Doctor, Nurse and Spirit all need to be looked at majorly then, since he has everything except stealth and both Spirit and Nurse are the only contenders to his power, but take many more hours to compete at the same level.
I have highlighted how this is as well compared to other killers.
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That's if you rely on the saw. I only use it as a mobility tool, or baiting pallets. I'll also use it if they're out in the open and have distance.
He has that hammer for a reason. He can still be a fair and balanced M1 killer, but to be honest, he still has way too much going for him.
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Yeah I didn't read the post. I seen Hillbilly problem and didn't feel like reading more. :/ My bad. Insta saw DOES need to go.
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I have no problem with his kit, just his base strength and ease of use. Especially compared to rest of the high tier cast.
That is The HILLBILLY Problem.
I wouldn't mind also making this a series about every single killer, but with how controversial this one is, I think that maybe it isn't such a good idea.
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How bad do you have to be to get sniped by a billy? Pls developers, change billy so i can play with music on and being blind is fine too.
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I have done it. And we must have a differing definition of "sniping" with Billy.
When I mean "snipe" I mean running with his chainsaw, and hitting a survivor trying to get into cover after exposing themselves that you've just run near. Curving into them in almost a split second.
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I like how you say you didnt call for a nerf, not saying actually yelinng and the next sentence starts with the only nerf i want... lmao.
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ive had yesterday 2 billies and got the same map on a row, fractured cowshed,same insta saw add ons
First billy had infectios fright and knock out (and deerstalker) and slugged everyone for a 4k
Second billy hooked one person then downed my other 2 team mates, one killed on hook and 2 slugged and got chased until their bleed out timer was 1/4th
said ######### it and played dark souls 3 instead.
tldr Billy slug machine, plz make knock out basic attack
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Insta-saw is a different story to wanting a full-on character nerfing. Insta-saw is a broken, abusive combination of add-ons that literally ruins games.
If you read the initial post, and used empathy, then you'd understand that I'm not calling for a nerf for a strong killer, I'm asking that weaker killers be brought up to a level so that Hillbilly is literally the middle of the road killer, or that someone with so much utility in one button have something more to show for it. If that means nerfing him, then that's the dev's idea.
Insta-saw needs to go in the sense that matchmaking needs to be fixed. It's simply for the health of the game.
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Now imagine similar games for 2 months. Every day. Not necessarily Insta-saw, but slugs and an over-reliance on the chainsaw.
That was me.
I picked him up to see the hype. I had an immediate issue. I made this post.
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Billy excels on stomping average survivors, yet when met with good survivors that play pallets safe and dont get curved he becomes m1 killer.
Only thing that I see widely agreed upon is that his insta saw needs to be looked at.
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I disagree with most of this post but the sad truth is we all know he's going to get nerfed. He's simply next on the chopping block. It's very clear the devs prefer survivors over all else. Killer is given bits of food just to prevent them from starving so we don't "play something else"
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I think Hillbilly is fine, rarely on console will you find a good hillbilly, so I don't think he needs to be touched tbh. But I played on PC before and yeah a good billy is hard to win against but it doesn't really matter.
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Thing is that I don't want another strong killer nerf. Insta-saw is a differing matter.
What I want to see is that more killers are reworked to the level of Freddy and Doc, or released as powerful as Nurse or Spirit. That way Hillbilly will be phased out of the meta as a middle of the road killer, with a good ability.
Funny thing is that I praise Oni as being simply put, a balanced Hillbilly. You have his mobility and instant-down, but you have to work for it.
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"if he MUST BE then every other killer besides Freddy, Doctor, Nurse and Spirit all need to be looked at majorly then"
they absolutely do all need buffs, way to miss the forest for the trees
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@PigMainClaudette how do you say he takes no skill? Curving takes a lot of practice and dedication to pull off, if you are getting chainsawed across the map then you're the problem, not the killer. It is unlikely for that to happen at high ranks and even if you do a nice curve then can still dodge it. This is why hillbilly is the games most balanced killer because you can see what he is doing and react accordingly. Nurse is to fast to really react and spirit is just a guessing game. I do agree that some of his add-ons need to be look at but nothing with base kit
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How so? This is literally the problem that I've run into this entire thread, and I would like to say that it is everyone else missing the forest for the trees here.
If you are going to say something like that, you need to have some sort of rebuttal or evidence to back up your claim, or not have me instantly dismiss you. That's how a DISCUSSION works.
If Hillbilly is to be the centre of "good balance" then every other killer needs changes. Simple as that. That is part of the Hillbilly problem.
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I'm not saying that ALL Hillbilly takes no skill, I'm saying that revving a chainsaw at M1 range as your only forms of attack takes no skill. Walking around a rock with a chainsaw above your head is not skilled. Waiting until you are touching me with your body before launching a chainsaw takes no skill. I am not looking at high skill play, I'm looking at someone picking up a killer to learn them. May as well call it the first 5-10 hours.
At a base level, at the skill floor, Hillbilly takes next to no skill. Especially compared to Nurse and Spirit. I would also argue that Freddy and Doc take more management of powers and skill than Hillbilly.
And I would argue that HUNTRESS is the most balanced killer in the game. Not Hillbilly. If we look solely at their base kits, then Huntress is more balanced than Hillbilly.
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Hillbilly is fine if you don't take into consideration just how much utility he has in ONE ability. And how easy he is to pick up and manage.
It takes less time to learn an effective Hillbilly play compared to other high rank killers. Not godlike, not Rank 1 dominant, just effective.
I agree with reworks and buffs bringing them to Freddy and Doctor, but not Hillbilly. He should be strong, even strongest of the core 3, but I would say that DLC characters, able to be purchased with Iridescent Shards or real money, should be somewhat stronger as a whole to a baseline character. Not "pay to win" strong, but have an edge over him. Push the other killers up, past Hillbilly so that he's a mid B-Tier killer.
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id like that too but these devs have failed my expectations time and again that i give up.
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With Freddy and Doctor going as well as they did, all I see is positive change. Even if all they do is remove insta-saw, it'll still be an improvement to the game.
Nurse is a bit hit and miss, but it changed her from the pure robotic "find survivor, ignore map to survivor, hook survivor" gameplay that was all she had.
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You have not played him nearly enough against players who know what they are doing, thats all I can say about that.
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Well then who do you want to be the most powerful O-o. Freddy, Doc, Oni.. I’m sure you do not because then you will complain about them
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Also let me add, he is not op, just because there is a killer that can stop you getting a gen done 40 seconds in is not a reason to complain, he is balanced and easy to counter, you have to play him lots and play against him lots
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I agree, curving is defintily one of the hardest things to do.
Billy is a strong killer, but he needs (after nurse) the longest time to get good with. His potential is insane, but as i said, it takes a lot of practice.
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Freddy. Simple. He has literally everything within a nice package, that doesn't contain an abusable instant down. I'm really happy with Freddy, despite basically never escaping from him.
Like I said in the beginning, I'm perfectly fine with strong killers, but their power should not be so accessable on a base level.
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Not nearly as much as Spirit or Nurse. Spirit takes a little bit more time, than Billy but we're talking tens of hours, when an average game is 5 minutes.
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I think billy is fine. He needs his addons reworked to fit that standard now, but even then his addons are op. Maybe a slight number nerf to “instasaw” but other than that.. he’s fine. He’s not commonly used on Xbox anymore, so it’s not like he’s overpowering by population either. That might vary on other platforms, but it’s not like pc was with a massive amount of nurses. Or how we had a extreme amount of spirits. He’s fine.
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#########? Billy is easy as hell to abuse. Feather the chainsaw after getting bloodlust and they can never escape. His only weakness is what literally every other killer in the game is weak to: strong loops.
Let's analyze him for a sec shall we? One he has his power instantly at the beginning of a match. Two it has zero cooldown. Three it's an insta-down skipping the two hit mechanics put in place. Four it doubles as a mobility ability with an already mobile killer so you both get downed and have to deal with continuous chase pressure. It can instantly destroy pallets or down the survivor, so there's zero downside to charging at a pallet. Dead zones are a death sentence. Unhooking in line of sight is too.
And no, Billy isn't a shining example of most balanced killer. If you max out every stat you're not balanced. Showing videos of a highly coordinated swf abusing game mechanics means the outlier is strong survivors paired with crappy level design, not weak killers. I can think of several survivor perks that are busted. Every aura perk for example. There's just too much feedback in a game that thrives in ambiguity. Spinechill should be line-of-sight. Etc.
But once they do rework Billy (which they are along with his maps), there's at least 3 things I can think of them doing. Most obvious is an ability cooldown/charge. Longer you hold a sprint, longer recovery is. Second would be a visual impairment like tunnel vision while traveling. And third is add-ons. But if it's like the Nurse, his one hit down will probably become an iridescent add-on instead of base.
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I would love to match up against you. You are one of those players who take the easy way out. Insta-down and using Moris while thinking you are relevant to this game in skill. Kids like you are the reason things won't change in regards to this game's mechanics, cannot take a step back to look objectively. You think that just because you catch and down a survivor out of place that they are trash and you are so good. Delusional thinking. I am not convinced.
And for the record, I punish more Billys than I lose to them. Toxicity and punishment are necessary to all red rank Billy players. Pray I don't find you son.
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