Give me one good reason why...
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I think his point is that the survivors dictate the outcome of the match a lot more than the killer does
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Funny thing is, it was the killer's mistakes that repeatedly cost them the 4k. I find it amusing how OP believes Ardetha was entitled to a 3k that game.
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My friends and I ran into a rank 1 nurse the other day who had a great setup and was amazing at blinking properly. They absolutely destroyed the whole team. I was watching a video on youtube the other day, and this guy was playing nurse, and he claims he isn't good at nurse but he was still good enough to precise blink and hit almost every time and was easy getting 4ks. It depends a lot on your setup, your skill level, and the survivors you have. Nurse has the potentially to be super crazy powerful, if you know how to play her well.
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While I will say he played well, he also didnt have any gen pressure what so ever. He didn't patrol a single time which is something I feel alot of people dont do and they get punnished by it and blame the game. You have to patrol abd if you dont you onky have yourself to blame.
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I think he has a point. We also cant really decide everything from a single perspective of a match. Arguments like this never go anywhere, and chases are only a part of a game. You can be a god and still lose this has always been a thing.
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There, they gave you many reasons in a simple format. Problem solved?
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So you're agreeing with our posts? I wish people that made threads like this would acknowledge the mistakes the killer made.
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My question is why do people who play killers think they are entitled to a 4k? Maybe you got outplayed. If its possible to outplay a good player who is playing a killer then that is good gameplay. Maybe you're just not as good as you think you are and aren't capable of a 4k against the type players you went against. Stop acting like just because someone plays a nurse and is good at it that means they are entitled to a 4k, because they are not.
Post edited by Kungpowa on3 -
The fact that people are still defending survivors after watching (or not watching) this video boggles my mind.
The game's outcome should be dictated by length of chases, but obviously it is dictated by whether or not people feel like doing gens.
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I think the killer should also be able to maintain pressure, the killer failing slugs doesn't exactly fit the definition.
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The game isn't meant to be determined by length of chases though. It's determined by pressure overall. Leaving some people on the ground and initiating another chase creates more incentive to leave the generator or end up with a 3v1 or 2v1 very quickly. Pressure isn't solely based on kills.
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Actually. Whether I think the 3.5 secs of cooldown is a bit of a punishment. I think people who are relying only in the cooldown add-ons will never learn to play "new nurse".
He is good because he knows how to blink wich is, the best you can do with nurse and the hardest thing to learn, but having only the cooldown add-ons mean he think the 3,5 secs are a long time to wait. I do that as well but try to take advantage to another add-ons as well. My brother just played a match against a red rank SWF and he did 3K, the fourth just escaped because she had a key. My brother is better blinking that me (a lot better) so he used a cooldown add-on and one of the omega-blink add-ons.
I am not talking about the playstyle because another users did. What I mean is... there are some cool add-ons and I know the cooldown for old nurses is one of the worst and unfun thing that devs could do to her but you need to learn to play with it.
Post edited by Saitamfed on0 -
Let me turn that around.
Why should Survivors be entitled to an escape? If Killers shouldn't expect to earn a 4 kill game, then Survivors shouldn't expect to have 4 escapes. Stop generalizing Killers. Just look at that one game for example and ask yourself.
Did they earn those escapes? 1, maybe 2, Survivors was working gens that whole game. Everyone else was bleeding on the ground or in a chase the entire match. Those Survivors couldn't survive for beans yet they still managed to get an easy 2 escapes, almost 3.
If it had been any other Killer, it would have been a 4 escape. Trapper, Wraith, Huntress, Billy, Demogorgon, Clown, Shape, Ghostface, ANY OTHER KILLER would have NOT done as well as Nurse in that game thanks to basic looping and it would have ended in a near 100% certain 4 man escape.
Do you honestly think that is a good thing? Do you think that's fair?
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If 90% of the time you're downing survivors as soon as you see them, all that is left is for them to do gens and save people when the opportunity comes up. Sure some minor mistakes where made, every human will make some. Those survivors however, where potato's in every aspect that didn't involve holding M1 or saving a team mate. As @Chewy102 said, Nurse is the only killer who could have done ANYTHING, here. As decent nurses are the only killers who CAN down good survivors so soon after seeing them.
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Lmao you're joking. The man made so many mistakes and you want him to 4k? You are literally joking, if not please explain yourself better than "nurse is the strongest haHA"
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Compared to the Survivors, who made more mistakes? I see a game where a Nurse made some mistakes, but I also see a game where Survivors made a lot more mistakes. You are only looking at the Nurse and not Survivors.
Yes, that Nurse made a couple of mistakes. Losing the David twice was big, maybe going for a quadruple slug within the first 2 minutes of the game was a bit to much, and he could have been better at landing hits instead of baiting Dead Hard so much. On the other hand though. How many mistakes did those Survivors make?
Ever think to do a play by play for Survivor mistakes to give them a count? If you bothered to look at BOTH sides of the gameplay you'd see that even though Survivors made by far the most mistakes they still managed to end the game with 2 escapes. They didn't earn those escapes if you ask me.
That's my point of view. Survivors aren't earning their escapes. They can play horribly and still walk out a gate or jump in a hatch without putting in any real effort for it at all.
Killers need to earn kills and Survivors should also need to earn escapes. But it Killer takes effort to earning kills, Survivors not so much in getting escapes.
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Hmm I can't recall...when did the survivors make mistakes and give the killer free pressure?
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You know he could have ended the game multiple times by not picking up the slugs or not picking up claud who had ds and pick up david instead. Like so many places he could have ended the match so don't use this to cry.
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Not being able to prolong chases. Not attempting to stealth. Not attempting to 360/juke/dodge a blink. Running standard loops against a Nurse like she is a M1 Killer. Going directly to pallets against a Nurse. Not making use of line of sight. Running in straight lines.
Yeah, Survivors not being able to survive or not bothering to play around the current Killer tends to count as a mistake.
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Jukes? You know this is Nurse right?
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Did you just use not doing 360's against a nurse as a legitimate dig on the Survivors making mistakes? Lmao
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You do know that if you don't attempt something, you'll never get better at it?
It is Nurse, and Nurse is Nurse. But those Survivors outside of David didn't bother to TRY and dodge her. And to use that David again, he seemingly did what you both thought impossible. He juked a nurse, not once. TWICE! That David earned his excape, that Adam didn't.
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*Greedy for 4 man slug, giving them the opportunity to get back on track*
"Where did he go?"
*Wastes precious time with searching the guy he chased and lost*
"He disappeared."
"Oh I missed."
"Where did he go?"
*picks up slugged survivor with shortest down time.*
"This guy just vanishes, I don't understand."
*Greedily chasing instead of going for the guy who went to unhook.*
"Oh I missed the hit again, too far away."
*Picks up slugged survivor with shortest down time again.*
"Oh this freaking tree"
*Misses hits again and again.*
"Gone again."
*Plays like a goody two-shoes throughout the game.*
"That was "top preformance" right there."
The guy surely plays a lot of nurse and knows how to blink. But that's the problem when you just start to rely on one trick pony style gameplay.
2k was a fair outcome. He could have made it 3 to 4k many times but failed.
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It doesn't, however I don't feel slugging should be so necessary in order to win--it's not fun for either side
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That's how the game is now, but I think most people would find it more fun if it worked the way I suggested. Again, most people don't like slugging, whether they are or killer or survivor.
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I don’t mind killers slugging but this guy wanted to slug the whole team early, he had 3 people down and instead of hooking them he got greedy and decided to search for the last player. Because of his greediness he only got to hook 1 person out of the 3.
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No one is entitled. But as you said, the survivors did many mistakes, and the killer's fault was not to capitalize on those mistakes. I had a match as a survivor against a Clown who liked to slug... three escaped. Why? Because not hooking survivors means you're not getting them out of the game, as a killer I never slug, unless I have the feeling that a person has DS. If you think going and slugging everyone is a good idea then... no, it isn't. Four survivors are a team, meaning a single survivor mistake doesn't mean you won the game, his fault was thinking that he already won because he slugged.
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Both sides of an argument must be made, killer screwups survivor screwups etc. This thread is like arguing No0b3 shouldnt die because he obviously outplays the killer in a chase, key thought is, thats not the most important factor in a game. But yes, i agree with what your saying and like the fair discussion you give.
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Your going on a off-the-rails discussion here buddy, you talk about generalizing killers but then only give the survivor side of it. And your excuses for what your saying just dont really work, they both made mistakes and the killer got 2 kills. As a player i go for points and fun values, idc about 4ks, i dont need to escape. As long as i get enjoyment and points to go forward i dont need the other stuff. this all started with the idea that because the killer was good it was wrong they didnt kill all the not-as-good(at-chases) survivors.
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they must not be high level survivors friend. And survivors do put effort in, i dont know where you guys got the idea that we are entitled lazy ppl that dont have to do anything. 5 gens wont fix themselves, the killer isnt going to chase a ball of yarn for the game so someone has to keep them occupied, survivors arent going to save themselves, someone has to open the exit gate. I play killer without perks, i always have. I make mistakes, but the nurse gave up multiple chances of a 4k.
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He might be good at blinking, but skill will only take you so far. You need strategy, and his strategy failed. He slugged three people at the beginning of the game, and two of them got up. One might've had unbreakable (good use of his perk) and the other got healed. At one point during the video he says "We're not letting the survivors play the game!" At which point... he's got one player hooked, two are uninjured, and Nea is injured but up -- and she stays that way for four minutes.
At the end, he lets Adam open the exit gates. Some people say "Adam didn't earn his escape!" But I'm not sure how people can say that without watching the match from his perspective. And clearly he earned it--he stayed alive until that point. Plus he must've had unbreakable, which definitely was a hail mary for his team. And without seeing things from his perspective, we have no idea what he contributed to the gens.
So yeah, he had short chases. But he didn't capitalize on them. Skill only takes you so far. And it's hard to say how sneaky they were, since we don't see anything from their perspective. Nea went four minutes injured without him engaging her. Four minutes without healing is a lot of time to work on generators. I think he got a bit overconfident with the generators early in the match, which ended with a 2k. Could've easily been a 3K or a 4K, but it didn't end up that way. It happens. I'm definitely not at his skill level with any of the killers. So I can only speak from observation. But from what I see, there's definitely tactical errors in there that held him back from more kills. And it doesn't amount to "Just camp!" or "Just tunnel!" (He earned that DS btw. Claudette comes off the hook at 5:47, he picks her up just 6 seconds later at 5:53)
Are there issues for killers that Devs need to look at? Absolutely! Toolboxes are definitely one of them. But I'm not sure this game is the best example.
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There's no real way to do that and not create a massive snowball for either side that would be even more boring.
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Dude...the killer got a 2k. They applied decent pressure and got a decent result. Does balance not please you?
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I am not saying that he is bad with nurse (re-read the second paragraph please), I am saying that old "god" nurses have issues with the cooldown, and they use both cooldown add-ons trying to get old nurse back, meaning they want to stick with some kind of old nurse add-onless with a cooldown. And they won't have old nurse back.
So they need to be a bit less dependant on cooldown add-ons and start playing with another ones. Like, as you said the ones who increase blink range. Before the nurse's rework, you could use her addonless, now you need add-ons with her. You can't have old nurse back even with the cooldown addons.
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Apparently decent Nurse should always result in 4k because Nurse. Good logic fellas.
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Yes, I understand but think that if addonless is fine, then with add-on it becomes broken. That's why she has a cooldown now in the first place. And nerfing the add-ons so it will become trash then you will ask. Why wasting bloodpoints on her?
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I just said it takes effort. Your mostly right but it still takes skill to find said loops or waste said killers time. Skill checks are called such for a reason, even if it isnt much. I just feel saying killer is this impossible task is bs, because i do it and it works fine ppl are overreacting on most problems right now. Can we talk about how changing gen speeds would also lead to more changes being needed so we dont just hold a button for 3 min 5 times?
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Actually i didnt say much about swf either, just that sucking epicly at survivor doesnt mean youll always get out anyways like people say.
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Skill has more to do with game sense than it does to do with either generators or chases. The survivors were good not because they ran him around a lot, but because they knew how to manage their time and they made the most of it. He also made several significant mistakes - tunneling Claudette was one, slugging every single time Infectious Fright went off and allowing survivors to get up again several times was another. Some of those should have been slugs, but some really should have been hooks.
As I said, he played well, but he didn't play perfectly. Optimal players don't miss hits, or get surprised by DS, or fail to assume that their opponents are pursuing their objective at all times.
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Why don't Survivors need to play perfectly then?
Skill is a 2 way street for Killer and Survivor. Asking 1 to be perfect and letting the other half ass isnt fair.
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Considering how hard it is to GET decent with nurse... Not far off. High skill cealing means that if you're considered good with that character you should do really well. But even a good nurse can't stop survivors, so what hope do other killers have?
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He did a one trick pony play and made many mistakes. He knows how to blink but that's pretty much it. He missed many attacks, wasted a lot of time, picked up the wrong people repeatedly, and threw a safe hook because he got greedy twice.
The survivors stayed focused and achieved unhooking and repairing simultaneously.
Survivors do not need to play highly skilled in order to escape. If they share tasks efficiently it already applies a lot of pressure towards the killer.
In my opinion it is fair. Playing killer means to sweat. If you want a calm and chill round killer is not for you. At least not in higher ranks. You need to do more than just run after people and hit them. You need to think what to do next all the time. You need to stay focused on what is the best action all the time. You need strategy. For example when he downed the 3 survivors he should not have been greedy and chase for the 4th but hook one. He should have rather focused on killing off one in these scenarios, rather than trying to slug them all. Taking away their ability to multi task. Their only strength in the video.
In competitive games I played it was pretty normal to sweat, think and act more situational. I would not want it to be any different. Always planning ahead and keep the current overall situation in mind.
But in DbD people think that the killer role should be like the killers in Hollywood movies?
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I disagree. In my opinion the survivor role i might be insanely boring by concept. But if the killer knows what he is doing, and for the record isn't just mindless one trick pony playing through the match like in the video, then survivors also need a high level of skill and need to do more than just sharing tasks and cooperate to actually stay in the game. If he would have done the right things at the right time the other 2 also would not have escaped.
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He was good at blinking but there were many bad decisions, failures and just the lack of awareness throughout the game.
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1 match, out of how many? 1 bad match and everything is bad. sigh
Show me 1000 matches where this happens. Maybe even 10000 considering how many people play daily. Then maybe it's a reasonable issue.
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Yes. I find it very obscure how people always think the killer role is as simple as chasing and hitting random survivors.
Most play without brain and then wonder why the fail the power role 1vs4.
And then they think it is entirely the games fault because "bro I downed some survivors in a game im like a pro player".
That's not how it works.
It's just like the people in other games I experienced who complain all the time instead of improving and then blaming the game for not ranking up.
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"Me, a Top-tier Nurse certified by BIG EGO Inc., could not win this one game where i made a lot of mistakes... Unacceptable!"
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I never said they should. All I said was that it's simply not true that the killer in the video played optimally and didn't make any mistakes, as OP and others have suggested.
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there's nothing wrong with the game's balance. Provided you are a rank 18 survivor.
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