Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Spine Chill and Myers
This perk working against him in Tier 1 is one of the most BS And unfair aspects in this entire game.
What if you're using a Tier 1 build? Are those memes now? You would stand no chance as the survivor with spin chill always knows where you are.
Comments
-
Spine Chill is about the only perk that works truly reliably against stealth killers.
It's perfectly fine as is. They're sacrificing a whole perk slot for it. Every ( decent ) perk will counter SOMETHING. If that happens to be your T1 Myers build, well, bad luck. Next match might be without survs with spinechill and you'll gut 'em.
And "Always knows where you are" is exaggerated. They don't know WHERE you are, they know when you're LOOKING at them. Unless they have a wall in their back, you could be coming from anywhere they just know they should get out.
Get creative when you encounter tough counters to your playstyle instead of calling for nerfs/changes. I've reverse-walked into gen parties with T1 Myers before. They did NOT expect that.
5 -
He's right not every game will someone bring SC. You can still get them and scare the team as well.
1 -
Myers moves slow in Tier 1 because no terror radius is an "advantage" that the perk COMPLETELY removes. It isn't like Spin Chill is a rare perk either its extremely common.
They don't need to know exactly where you are either to ######### on you with that slow tier 1 movement speed. As long as they get the SC notification and realize its a Myers they can just loop until kingdom come because of how slow you move.
I don't even use Tier 1 builds. But good effing luck dealing with a team thats using spine chill if you are. I am primarily talking about losing the advantage Tier 1 is supposed to give because of the perk. Meanwhile it gets turned into a massive penalty with no trade off just for EXISTING. I am slow but they know to be weary of me anyways so I don't even get the advantage of a swift build into Tier 2 while close enough to attack. Good luck playing as Myers intending to use Tier 3 if you end up getting ######### on early and have to dedicate a bunch of extra time getting into tier 2. Zero excuse that a solid team shouldn't have 2 gens done in this situation.
0 -
You have not countered or engaged with any of the arguments I have made, you only keep repeating yourself trying to enforce your opinion, which yeah well, is just like, your opinion, man.
If you have so much trouble with spine chill run perks that negate and counter it. You need to adjust your playstyle, not try to have the devs adjust the game to it.
Every build that is specific like a T1 or stealth build is always a gamble. Nobody has spine chill, you murder them, hard. They have spine chill, you lost a gamble.
Looking at it from the survivor perspective, imagine encountering a killer who gives a ######### about your spine chill because she/he is SUPER effective at locating survivors or REALLY, REALLY fast. Well, there goes your spine chill, perk slot wasted.
This is like complaining that the hooks are too close to each other because you often run flip-flop, unbreakable, tenacity AND wild horse OR sabo/ and toolbox trying to create a hookless area so you can wiggle free EVERY TIME the killer downs and picks you up in that area, buying your mates LOTS of time.
It's a fun thing I do with Ash sometimes, but it's -super- situational and specific and I don't complain that I still get hooked because hooks respawn or there's just too many of them. And well, if they have agitation and iron grip, I lost my gamble. That's fine.
Situational builds like T1 Myers & stealth killers or Wiggle & Sabo and No Mither builds are ALWAYS a gamble. You can win or lose gambles. Deal with it.
2 -
Spine Chill is a natural answer to stealth killers. Knowing that the killer is aftet you is also just incredibly good information, and that just happens to be a main point if the survivor's game.
There's the skills of running and stealth, and the information aspect. I don't hear a terror radius and that is lit up, I'm gonna run.
It also has no auditory or visual queue for a survivor, other than the bar changing colour if they're doing an action (if no penalties are applied) and the perk itself lighting up. It's just a perk that you uave to learn to counter naturally.
1 -
Neither did you. No self awareness? You sound mad I didn't just concede to what you had to say. I like how you did the exact same thing you accused me of doing lmao.
I think its absurd a perk hammers an entire category of killer powers and you don't. Whatever. I've also had survivors in games where I 1k get enraged that I didn't give them even more chances to all get away even though the flow the game entirely favored them. I'm not surprised.
The scenario you described is almost nothing like what I am talking about. Flip Flop alone is likely going to achieve its potential in less than 10% of matches. But that at least makes sense because there was 4 survivors who can be using it.
There isn't any reason to not be running Spine Chill especially in a group. Survivor perspective? Wasted perk slot? Weird how in the red ranks I play it is one of the most popular perks that appears in nearly every game I play.
0 -
Are you blind? I've explained to great lengths why this is a non-issue including similar examples ( Wiggle-Builds ). I engaged your arguments with the explanation of why situational perks always have a chance of being rendered useless by counter perks - Just like they have the chance of winning you the game.
Spine Chill is part of the natural gameplay of the game, as is T1 Myers jumpscaring in and grabbing survs off generators.
I'm not mad, I just have no polite talk to waste on irrational idiots like you. Seeing as this is just one of the many threads where the OP will ignore everything that doesn't align with their opinion, I'm out.
2 -
The only part of this I read was "irrational idiot" and I applied it back to you.
"its fine because I said it is" " its a wasted perk slot because I said it is" "What I say is an argument of fact what you say is like...your opinion dood"
K
1 -
If you can't see the rational, objective logic of a survivor having wasted a perk slot ( Since they could've used a perk better suited for the matchup, but lost the gamble on the one they chose ) when a you're matched with can counter or completely ignore the perk in that slot ( Or vice versa, killer using perks survs they are matched with can counter/ignore ), you're just in denial. Or dumb. Or both.
There is nothing as rational or logical about wanting Spine Chill nerfed because YOU want to play your stealth killers without people being able to counter your builds.
K yourself, internet kid.
2 -
Myers Tier 1 didn't used to get picked up by spine chill so that wouldn't be a nerf that would be putting it back to where it should be. When a top tier survivor perk directly counters part of a killers loadout that already comes with a disadvantage. That is an issue. I love when insulting morons think they're in the right. You repeat yourself over and over. Shut up already.
So what is your logic exactly? You talk like you don't even know what Spine Chill does as you keep saying "wasted perk slot" in relation to it. Better used perk? I know you like repeating yourself over and over but maybe try to actually explain why you think Spine Chill is a wasted perk slot. Seeing how quickly you stoop to insults I know you probably don't have the intelligence to do that. Is it because it got brought into a match where there isn't a stealth killer? Its still extremely useful WITHOUT a stealth killer.
Better yet don't. I can feel myself losing brain cells reading your posts ever since you voiced your opinion then acted like what you said was fact meanwhile what I said "my opinion dood".
1 -
Hmm...this thread is not healthy. Regardless, here is my addition:
Tier one Myers is countered by two perks: Spine Chill and Premonition, both of which alert the survivor as to when to start paying attention or running. I've rarely seen Premonition be used (I suspect due to the cooldown), but on average, I see .8 of a Spine Chill equipped every game. It's a perk that requires game sense to use to its fullest, but once grasped, Spine Chill will practically guarantee that any user will not be prepared for an incoming chase if the survivor doesn't know that already. This is usually perfectly fine for most killers in DbD. It's information given to a survivor and it doesn't directly affect the killer's ability to chase and down survivors. Nearly every stealth killer in the game has some indication that the killer is about to attack a survivor other than breathing, and all of these killers have the ability to travel at 4.6 m/s when need be. The only exception in the entire game to this is Tier one Myers.
Tier one Myers cannot increase his speed to 4.6 m.s or come close to that at any point during the match without the help of perks that stack with one another. The entire idea behind his low movement speed is that he is granted impregnable stealth, unable to be undermined by any survivor tactic. That is, until the Undetectable patch came barging into this delicate drawback and benefit of his. Without giving any thought to the importance of a terror radius to the horror experience in DbD (especially since the introduction of M&A, which I had little issue with on Tier one Myers), the developers completely removed his terror radius (down from 6). In addition to removing atmosphere from the survivor experience (for those who cared), the developers removed his invulnerability to detection perks. As such, a Tier one Myers poses little to no threat to any Spine Chill user, and he was the only killer who was ever able to scare someone using one of the two once-meta detection perks.
Running stealth builds should not be a "gamble". Breaking outside of whatever meta this game has should not be taking a risk. Bringing fear and fun should be possible in any number of means in this game. This suggested change of reverting how Myers' stealth works doesn't even have any downsides to local or overall game health. In fact, variety like that causes benefits to game health. Myers' stealth behaves differently and exists in a different way than do other killer stealth powers. The developers should know that and stop seeking to change things in the game just for the sake of "consistency".
I would love to hear someone else's opinion on why Myers' shouldn't receive this change, and I will most likely respectfully disagree, but giving others the chance to express their beliefs is something I'm always excited to do.
In response to your post, I wanted to ask why you think Spine Chill is a wasted perk slot, seeing as it's only half about stealth and half about staying informed during chases. You place a large focus on a "sacrificed" perk slot if the killer isn't a stealth killer. I've used Spine Chill to great effects on most (if not all) killers, ranging from Spirit and Nurse to Trapper and Myers, and while I've felt that perhaps there could have been a better perk to choose, it often gives me enough value (preparation for chases) that I never consider it useless.
1 -
Disclaimer: The first iteration of this post was an in-depth reply to Kind_Lemon longer, and deleted by the forum software having a laugh, couldn't even recover it from my memory via hex editor. Can't be arsed to write it all write this wall of text again. It's likely neither of our posts are going to have any impact on the developers or the game, and I'm not spending any more time on this, so I'll keep this very short.
I absolutely agree with Spine Chill being a decent perk no matter what the killer runs - But this thread was started with the exaggeration of Myers being able to be detected by it on T1 being one of the most BS and unfair aspects of the ENTIRE game. Therefore, I exaggerated myself, to keep in line with the type of argumentation we're seeing. And you even said yourself that yes, you have felt that you could've brought a more useful perk against the matchup you've had. That's what I was talking about regarding the sacrific of a perk slot, in a less exaggerated way.
And I'm sure we can agree on that there are more worrysome and unfair mechanics in this game?
An inconsistency like the OP suggests would cause frustration in players not understanding why spine chill or premonition isn't working for them when Myers keeps sneaking up on them on T1. They'd have to change EVERY stealth related tooltip in the game to accomodate a line of "Does not work on T1 Myers", and I just don't see the proportionality.
And even then, frustrated newbies and lots, LOTS of false cheating reports are bound to lead to SOME unlucky Myers players being falsely banned for cheating simply due to the sheer volume of reports. This will ebb off eventually yeah, but damage done is damage done.
It would also damage the fun and excitement of running your builds and gambling on if you'll win the game with them or be matched up against a counter-build. I find this FUN. Nothing should work all the time, there should always exist something to counter something else.
And yes, you could argue that Spine Chill does NOT a counter, but it does and it's a ( to me ) much more fun and creative way to circumvent that hard counter: Ingenuity.
Walk backwards towards the survivors, turn around at the last second. I've done this with Myers, Pig, Wraith and Ghostface countless times. It's a bit weird and finnicky to get used to and reliably pull off, but it WORKS, and it should be hard to reliably pull off since well, it circumvents a hard counter.
Now add surveillance so you can hear gens from further away and you can navigate to them backwards even easier. Gen monitoring perks are extremely useful for slow killers anyway so there's less time wasted moving to gens that aren't being worked on.
There. I'm not writing anything longer than this, but out of respect for your polite reply, I had to get you some reply.
2 -
First off, I feel you about the forums eating up walls of text, that's happened to me once, and second off, I've started walking backwards at gens too XD.
I understand now how you saw your response fitting into the theme of this thread, and I can sympathize with the need to be just as exaggerated. tbh, I skipped past the OP and went directly to the comments, so I missed the wording of the OP. I treated the thread seriously, even though I now see it wasn't entirely serious.
To answer your points, I want to acknowledge that, yes, when Myers had immunity to all detection perks, every once in a while, I would spot a thread from a survivor who would say something like, "Myers is bugged" or "Spine Chill doesn't work properly, he was even staring right at me!" To concretely stop this, the developers might need to include mention in all detection perks that Myers is immune, and yes, while it may seem like more work than is worth it for the outcome, the importance of stealth to Tier One Myers is critical to his success and fun factor. There's even been a precedent for something similar: Tinkerer. The only reason that was discontinued was because the developers couldn't keep up with the work required to balance an (effective) additional set of charge add-ons for each killer.
As you said yourself, nothing should have no counter: Premonition has no counter, and Spine Chill only has that "walk backwards at survivors" thing, which is not really a counter per se, since Spine Chill still works in most chases. In terms of Myers' stealth, he can still be detected by eyesight or through his masked breathing, so it's not like he can never be discerned in the fog. I would just like the spirit of impregnable stealth to remain with him even if the reality might be something slightly different. Spine Chill and Premonition shouldn't have no counter, and that's a major reason why Myers' should be immune.
I find fun in not knowing whether a group of survivors will be able to handle what I'm putting down, but I don't find fun in having all my preparation thrown out the window because I'm as slow as a turtle and I loop just as well as a truck does simply because I'm playing Tier One Myers. It's just one of those things where I've sacrificed power for stealth, and then I find that all my stealth power has evaporated, and I'm left, unexpectedly, with just the downsides of my choice. In reality, it's never that bad (except for a few times, one being on Haddonfield), but I hope I've gotten my feelings across 😅.
And finally, thank you for your kind reply.
0 -
Not sure what you mean by not serious. I am 100% serious and stand by every word I said. I said it was BS in general and gave a hypothetical that amplified the struggle I had just had with Tier 1 Myers/SC when I made the post. That isn't an exaggeration it's an obersation based on what I had just experienced then and in the past.. The "other" person gave their opinion and then when I added back with my own more detailed opinion they got snobby about it. Then after when I called them out on it they personally insult me multiple times. IF you can even call what I said "an opinion" meanwhile their statement a gleaming example of what an opinion actually is "its fine the way it is" " wasted perk slot". I stated multiple facts. Why is Myers extra slow in tier 1? To balance the fact that having no terror radius is an advantage. That isn't an opinion. Spine Chill adds another penalty to Myers in tier 1...is being slower AND having them know you're coming not a penalty? Do survivors need to know the exact location of Myers in Tier 1 to use Spine Chill as a means to gain safety? No.
Sure, lets slowly pass around the fact that walking backwards is not a counter AT ALL. A trick that can work at times? Yes? But lol....good luck defeating competent survivors who you need to SEE that are going to struggle because you appeared with no indication with your back turned..... It isn't like stealth killers are this cheap OP aspect and the ones that are strong would flat out be countering their own advantage by trying that on a consistent basis. Myers, Ghost, need to SEE the survivors.
A Myers planning to leave Tier 1 would overall do more harm to their game then good by walking backwards assuming players had spine chill. More often than not you would just lose chances to gain stalk.
A Ghost is capable of moving at normal speed so they might as well just play normally and if Spine Chill is present you still gain some advantage as they can't be 100% sure where you are and they don't have the option of getting into a safe spot like they would with Tier 1 Myers because Ghost is moving 15% fast than them.
As for exaggeration. What are some elements of this game on the killer side that are blatantly worse than being a Tier 1 Myers going against multiple Spine Chillls? One of the most popular perks in the entire game.
0 -
I mean, yeah, I agree with you about the game aspect, perhaps on not all of your reasons and observations, but I agree with the principle.
I treat this thread seriously. However, I do think there are more serious aspects of the game that have issues in regards to "fairness".
0 -
Now unless you're running a specific Tier-I/Mirror build on a map like The Game, then there's no reason for you not to try and tier up against someone running Spine Chill when they run away, generally in the open. When you tier up, it can give survivors a false sense of security now that you have a terror radius.
If I'm going against a Myers while they're in Tier-I, and I have Spine Chill, then I'm going to be a bit jumpy and looking anywhere just in case. Same with ANY killer who can have zero terror radius, or an M+A Deathslinger or Hag.
0
