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3 easy buffs/sidegrades/nerfs for killer perks to be super fun.
Insidious : reverse distressing. Bloodpoint buff and a smaller terror radius.
Fire up : 5% increased speed ontop of current bonuses for 30s. Endgame keep any current speed boost gained for 45s. If 3 gens pop, prepare for a very fast killer for a while. Kicking the hatch removes all bonus speed.
Noed : no longer a hex perk. Grants permanent undetectable status effect in endgame and a 5% movement speed boost
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Insidious, that's a big no, with M&A every Killer could be stealth Killer with this.
I like current Fire Up, just increase it to 5 or 6% and that would be great.
Current Noed is fine tbh.
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You're giving up two perk slots to have stealth, I think that's mostly fine, especially considering the one killer it woul be a problem on, Huntress, can never really be stealth.
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People have Problem with Deathslingers Terror Radius now, just imagine him or the Hag with 8 meter Terror Radius, Michael with 0 meter TR.
I don't think that's a good idea.
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Hag, deathslinger and Myers too have lower terror radiuses but even so, dedicating two whole perk slots to do so is very weakening when you could be running stronger builds.
Current noed is a crutch perk. Lower rank killers rely on it, and higher tier killers use it to bully, rely on it or purely use it out of spite.
Dedicating two whole perks to make killers stealth? Sounds fair to me when in most cases it would only reduce them to around 16-8m. A billy using both wouldn't be able to use gen delay perks + enduring spiritfury being forced to choose. It would just be another strong combo. And on killers who would go to incredibly low terror radiuses/0 let's just say hag. There are so many more powerful builds to run on her then "make terror radius 0"
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And yet your dedicating two whole perks for the build... Instead of running more lethal or synergystic things? The problem with deathslinger and m/a is that his chase music distance and his terror radius are very close so it appears to become instant. Like with hag with m/a whom people don't have a problem with ironically enough
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That change for Insidious would be a little nutty. You can already get a very small radius on some killers with just Monitor & Abuse. If you stacked this with it, you'd be able to turn just about any killer into a stealth killer. In any case, it's basically just stealing M&A's thunder at that point, I don't think there's enough to set it apart.
Fire Up I think might be too much. I can't see how you could possibly play around someone moving at 5.2m/s, and I don't think you should ever expect the other survivors not to do gens because someone's being chased.
As for the NOED one, that's a neat idea. Though I don't think it needs to replace NOED, you could probably just cut out the speed part and make it its own perk.
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For the fire up one, what if the speed was progressively removed upon getting a hit? Ie one stack of speed (or the entire amount) is removed upon getting a hit/down. That or decreasing the speed increase. Something to allow the killer to "catch up" and begin a snowball persay if there in a bad place within a match.
For insidious I find this true and an acceptable point, however m/a also has the benefit of enlarging the terror radius (in a chase) and fov whilst searching. That being said how would you personally make it more unique? I would genuinely like to see more ways to "become a stealth killer in the game" for other killers, with minimal requirements. But then I guess I have m/a for that.
As for noed, that's fair even if I personally believe it to need some adjustment (not for being too powerful, but as for it's usage as a crutch.) Would very much make a nice standalone perk (though if added as a standalone perk it would be deathly frightening with noed still in the game!)
Thanks for the feedback though!
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I actually have an idea... what if...
Secret Admirer:
Once there are 1/2/3 Generators Left for the survivors to compete you will become Undetectable the entire game as long as these conditions are met (this will use the objective counter for the Generators). if the endgame collapse has begun you will gain a 10/20/30 second speed buff to, Vaulting, Breaking (for walls/pallets), and movement speed. Once Endgame Collapse begins, you will no longer be Undetectable.
Would that work? Or is it too overpowered?
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In regards to Fire Up, I'm not sure how much that would change. Ultimately if the killer starts running super fast and you get hit, you're going to feel cheated whether he loses that speed afterwards or not. Given that the speed only last 30 seconds, it's not very likely that they're going to go on a rampage and down everyone with it, it'll just feel like a cheap hit or down for the survivor you're currently chasing.
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Now that's what I call an even more toxic version of NOED tbh.
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I guess that the problem with his TR is also that it appears non directional or it's just hard to tell where exactly he is, the same thing goes with Doctor's TR.
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I'm more so thinking of it's use to approach and get into a chase at that point - crossing a large map/achieving a hit. Though if it were a 5% speed boost purely having it's time increased (ie if there's 15s left and two gens pop it becomes 75s) I would't complain as it would fill it's purpose of allowing easier patrolling. 3 stacks of pwyf however hard to loop against never felt cheap to me as I knew it would be lost upon a hit. Same principle here to some degree?
Or huntress, as her terror radius is quite small atop her non-directional lullaby.
More toxic? How so?
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Oh I am well aware, I just don't think Hag, Myers, or death slinger get anything ridiculous out of having a smaller TR. Myers, with LVL, already has a huge TR with M&A reducing him to a regular TR in chase, which is still effective time to run away and given anyone knows when he's at Tier 3 not to get caught out of position anyway. Tier 2 is just an M1 killer, and he's tall. I can see it being scary with his rabbit add on, but that one doesn't stack as high as it should anyway, if I remember correctly.
Hag... Virtually gets a non-existent TR anyway, by the time you hear her coming she's on you because of her low base TR anyway... She's a 110 killer though, so I don't think that's crazy.
As for death slinger, it would only stack so strongly if he has his TR reducing ADS add on, which from maximum range with the purple, you wouldn't hear him anyway, and by that same token, it wouldn't really matter because longshots for him are a detriment.
(While we're on that topic, why did the devs give him a useless red add on? Why do they continue to put out ultra rares that straight up nerf killers, or are made incredibly useless by way of giving them ridiculous stipulation? If you ever get a shot off 15 meters away from a survivor and actually hit, you'll almost never be rewarded as there is always something in the way of 15 meters of distance between you and the surv for them to break themselves free with. Not to mention his range is deceptively short in the first place, I've just never gotten this add on to proc, and you may as well just NoED Snipe people or get devour hope going if you want any type of oneshit expose)
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Why is this different from the killer feeling like they were cheated out of a hit from DH/SB/BL/Lithe? Either way, someone starts running super fast out of nowhere and there's nothing you can do about it.
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The 15m add-on seems to be more for catching people out of position and between loops/punishing unhookers. That being said as the range is only bout 18m that's 3m of leeway which is not a lot.... Should lengthen the chain considerably and make the time to draw reliant on the length.
But yeah a low terror radius is only op on a one hit instadown. Which is night impossible on any killer. And if they have that (ghostface Myers) they have major downsides surrounding it
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I don't see this Fire Up change as to big of a change. It's just a temporary Bloodlust that would actually make Fire Up have synergy with perks like Tinkerer and Bitter Murmur. Which that by it's self would be nice because build diversity for killer is always good. Also, this effect is already in the game with Hex: DH and PWYF, and with those perks there is a noticeable prerequisite that you can scout. What's wrong with buffing bad perks? Fire Up is a Jack of all trades kind of perk so adding another effect instead of buffing the current numbers is all good with me. It also fits the theme of the perk well.
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It does fit with the theme of the perk quite well, but i think the initial version i proposed might be a bit to strong. 3 gens pop early game and suddeny your a 15% faster killer for 30s to a minute? mind you thats stackable with other speed bonuses as well so yeah.
Making it so the speed is lost on hit/a down/hit within power, would make it more of a patrol perk and leave the number buffing to chases. would also allow for quicker temporal chases when the killers being pressured to allow them to gain momentum again, sort of like a chase version of pop.
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But 3 gens for a single hit is not even close to a fair trade, especially for a perk.
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Thats also true. Which is why the speed aspect would be so hard to balance. having it removea stack of speed automatically, as the timer decreases would be more fair though no? ie 3 gens pop you become 15% faster for 60s. you hit someone at like 50s left, that becomes 50s of 10% speed.
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I'd rather insidious be the opposite of what it is: No terror radius/ Undetectable when outside the 40 m (BBQ range). That would encourage survivors to get their friends off the hook as quick as possible.
I don't like the Fire Up change, just because it pressures the killer even more than usual.
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IMO, this new NOED should just replace Beast of Prey, since as far as I understand we are trying to move away from Bloodlust anyway. And seeing as Beast of Prey rewards you too little too late often in a chase, I think it would be better if it were a progressively stronger stealth perk as time goes on.
Something like a token system for the mid-late game.
- Whenever you enter a chase, Beast of Prey activates.
- When you hit a Bloodlust tier, lose your terror radius and red stain, becoming completely undetectable and unpredictable.
- Every time you hit a Bloodlust tier, gain a token.
- For each token for a maximum of 10 tokens, gain 5 seconds of Undetectable after ending a chase.
NOED is fine, it just needs to not be so much of a crutch perk. If there were stronger options in the game for the Killer to use, we might see less of it, but often times, especially in early ranks, the Killer is forced to take insurance perks because of gen speed.
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Insidious has a few uses as it stands, though i do think it could be 'slightly' buffed to allow it to actually be useful in more interesting ways. Maybe after moving, insidious should still mask your terror radius for 2-3 seconds, just at least enough to allow you to take a few steps and attempt a play.
I think Beast of Prey is probably the weakest killer perk of all. When you go up against good survivors, you never enter bloodlust for more than a second anyways, and they are always looking behind them so it basically does nothing for you at all. Maybe they could change it continue to mask your red stain/terror radius for an extra 4~ seconds after losing bloodlust, so that way you could use it to attempt some mindgames at some tiles.
The new perk Gearhead is also laughably bad. Not only does it require M1 hits (which makes it horrible on some killers like huntress, legion, hillbilly, cannibal), but then it only lasts 30 seconds, in which time someone has to actually get a skill check on a generator (which might not happen, or if it does, it might be during the last 2 seconds where the information isn't needed anymore). And then, it only activates if it was a Good Skill Check, if they hit a great, it doesn't work. Why not go ahead and add in more qualifiers while you are at it, Behavior? Maybe it should only work on Tuesday between 2am and 6am? Maybe i have to input the konami code while i'm at it?
Why would i ever use Gearhead? You could just use BBQ and see where someone is at on a generator right away after downing someone. Or use Discordance and see which generators are high priority without me needing to do anything at all? What this perk SHOULD do is instantly force every person who touches a generator within the next 30 seconds to make a skillcheck, and if they dont hit the great check, then the gen becomes 'marked' which will cause its aura to turn yellow anytime anyone is working on it for the next 30 seconds. This will prevent the perk from relying on pure luck, and also stop survivors from just gentapping to completely counter the perk. Even still, this perk would be still somewhat bad in the highest ranks since good survivors can hit great skillchecks all day long.
As for Fire Up, you could make it also give you a further bonus the more survivors are alive as generators are getting completed. Instead of 4% per gen, it could be: for each generator completed gain 2% [+1% per living survivor] action speed bonus. So if 4 generators are completed, and all 4 survivors are alive, it would be like 4 x (2% + 4%) = 24% action speed bonus. If all 5 gens are completed, and all survivors are alive, it would be 30%. This way it is more useful endgame if the survivors are dominating, but less powerful if you are already winning.
The only reason NOED is used so often is because there are several killers who just don't have a chance at pressuring gens, and they have to hope that they can grab at least a kill or two at the end. Unless i am playing against less experienced survivors, sometimes NOED is like the only way i feel like i can get a single kill with the Wraith or Trapper, especially since i haven't unlocked some of the more snowballing perks like play with your food or save the best for last yet.
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Insidious may have uses but there Bad uses. camping is bad for game health and the game punishes you for doing so. rework the perk to encourage good playability/be an active perk that benefits the killer.
Beast of prey buff yes.
Gear head just needs to activate for a 2-4 seconds showing you what gens are being worked on every time you get a second hit. Requires you injuring or downing a survivor. Aura could also stay on the gen so long as the survivor is working on it. also should have no cooldown. that way its always beneficial
Thats a good buff idea to fire up, but by the end of the match, pallets and windows are nigh useless without an endgame build. there either likely to already be used up, or be at exit gates and around them where you'll be using it, maybe shred through one pallet or two maybe one vault. no matter the speed increase its value is progressively lessened as the match goes on and you destroy pallets and loops.
Thats what people mean when they say noed is a crutch perk though. wraith/trapper can most deffinately win at 5 gens at rank 1. relying on it to do the heavy lifting for you encourages bad play, and reliance on a singular perk to make up for either your inability or a killers inability (Also buff low tier killers, etc.) Sure some killers are less viable, but one sole strategy shouldn't be the railroad to victory for them. also noed just isin't fun on survivor side. it doesn't feel high risk high reward, and unless all totems are done it just... activates at the end of the game, no prerequisite. Its a crutch in my eyes which is why i wish to rework it. Having no terror radius and being a bit faster in the endgame leads to more spooks and less "ah **** this im leaving/oh god not this again". tinkerer is always fun to go against, and it would be similar with my design for noed. Even still, any perk that just activates at the end of the game to give the killer a boost is a crutch in some form imo, as its not rewarding good play, just benefiting poor play even in the cases where you were legitamately just outplayed for a match.
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I don't think all of the uses of insidious are bad uses. I have used insidious in some fun ways, it just feels too hard to use reliably most of the time. If it allowed you to keep its benefits for like 2 or 3 extra seconds after moving, it would open a lot more possibilties. I have chased two people off of a generator as trapper once, but then went and hid inside the back of the big broken truck for a few seconds. Just a moment later, they both came walking back, right beside me. I jumped out and managed to down one with a jumpscare attack. It was fun and they complimented the play after the game. I would love to allow insidious to give you the power to really make interesting jumpscare/surprise attacks. Maybe they could simply make insidious unable to be activated if you are within 24m~ of a hooked survivor or something, to make it less usable as a hook camping perk.
I don't disagree that NOED is a crutch perk. That's exactly how i use it. I use it on the killers that i feel i have no other way of getting kills with. Most of them don't need it. I would much rather they bring some of the lower tiered killers up to par and just nerf noed in some way. Maybe noed shouldn't even be a hex perk. Maybe they should find a way to buff Remember Me or something to replace NOED as an endgame perk.
Maybe NOED's strength could change depending on how many survivors are alive too, similar to my Fire Up idea. Maybe endgame, you get 2% +1% movespeed per survivor alive movespeed bonus (Max of 6%). And maybe you get 8% + 3% per living survivor (Max of 20%) reduced attack/ability cooldown/chargetime. Instead of making everyone exposed. This would make it more of a clutch perk that would be more powerful on the less skilled players that might need it, and less powerful for the killers who have already killed 2 or 3 people before endgame.
Post edited by XRuecian on0 -
Honestly I really enjoy that noed idea... Reduced attack cooldowns to mad grit levels if all 4 are living with a 1% speed boost per survivor alive. Take away hex status and boom viable clutch perk.
I'm not denying insidious's ability to make fun and interesting plays, but the way it is now simply just encourages and allows for camping strategy's to work. Ie basement leatherface, something that shouldn't really exist. Then again we have wraith being able to cloak next to a hook which is not nice too. Ghostface atleast has to rely on insidious to do his variation of the camp, but he has built in mindgame insidious with his power and being able to hide his frame easier behind an object for a stealth attack
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