PLEASE bring back old Freddy.
Or any killer that is like old Freddy or has the same mechanics.
He was so fun to play and come up against, he had so much pressure but he was fairly weak in chases so it felt balanced out, he felt fair.
I hate these new killers that have abilities to help them in a chase but they have no pressure, chases (the actual fun part of the game) now go by much quicker and is harder to balance, other killers (like pig) are better as they have longer matches and longer chases. Freddy was just like this.
What I was thinking is a killer that pulls you into a different style world or something like that, and keep the transition flickers so it has a skill requirement. Make them do something unique to escape this world like to run somewhere. Then they can get back to gens.
He was my favourite killer, I have now moved onto Legion who i'm also having fun with. If an old Freddy mock was introduced then i would play it over anyone.
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As much as Freddy mains would die to have old Freddy back, sadly that seems like a pipe dream.
(I say Freddy mains because the majority of the playerbase of survivors and killers didn't like Freddy's playstyle)
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The tunnel monster will never come back.
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"He was so fun to play and come up against, he had so much pressure but he was fairly weak in chases so it felt balanced out, he felt fair."
He was the worst killer in the game unless you were at low ranks and he got skunked on a routine basis. And pressure? Freddy had no pressure, Freddy had to follow survivors around actively trying to put them in the dream world and only then could he do ANYTHING to them. And even then it didn't matter since one failed skill check later all that work is gone.
"What I was thinking is a killer that pulls you into a different style world or something like that, and keep the transition flickers so it has a skill requirement. Make them do something unique to escape this world like to run somewhere. Then they can get back to gens."
Doesn't Freddy still do EXACTLY this? The only difference is in the current dreamworld they can do generators. And why would the killer flicker in the world they control? Freddy flickers in the awake world now until he's right on top of someone. And escape from the dreamworld involves running to a dream alarm and using it to wake up. Seriously have you played new Freddy once? Cause your knowledge of him seems like you just know he was changed and that's it.
"He was my favourite killer, I have now moved onto Legion who i'm also having fun with. If an old Freddy mock was introduced then i would play it over anyone."
So.....you just enjoy playing the worst killers DBD has to offer? I mean I play Legion too but wow man, old Freddy and Legion, are you allergic to making it a little easier on yourself?
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Im not even joking, I have literally played the game since beta, and as freddy I would always 4k. Maybe no one played him and no one knew what to do. (Remember Me, Slowdowns, etc.) Made him honestly pretty insane.
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he had no pressure at all. Having wallhacks and slowdown at the cost of not being able to hit survivor for ages and being cucked by skill checks, adrenaline, unbreakable, was never worth it.
everybody used to play him with the block combo, basically tunneling with noed. with nowadays decisive he wouldn't have any chances.
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edit: forum double published the post for reasons
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Old Freddy would be a bit better in todays meta for sure. Better than Clown, thats for sure, but still a bottom 3 character
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If you were tunnelling with old Freddy you were doing something wrong.
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Never thought I would miss old Freddy, but they took away everything that made him fun. The dream transition separated good Freddy's from mediocre ones. The slow down while sleeping made waking up feel necessary for progression instead of an optional thing.
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Yeah, no. Took forever for them to make Freddy a viable killer because his power before was interesting in theory, but really easy to counter. What's the point of a power that doesnt help you kill, instead it hinders you most of the time? Freddy was the opposite of Stealth killers: (A) you find survivor and hit him before he notices you (stealth killer); (-A) You find the survivor, he knows you are there for like forever, have to wait a long time just to give the first hit... and then you start a long chase with a chance of having to wait again bc he failed a skillcheck behind a pallet. His only advantage was not being seen, which made almost no difference bc of the prep before hitting. Also, seeing ppl from far away makes no difference if you dont have time to catch or chase them.
Yeah, no.
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Bruh pressure? Old Freddy had the most pressure in the entire game if you played him correctly. Which was why he wasn't the worst. You had the 50% reduction in action speed, then the failed skill-check and delay, and Freddy now knows what gen you're at. All Freddy had to do was hold M2 on you which took him like what, 2 seconds?
How on earth is that no pressure.
Also, new Freddy is different, you can't utilise the flickers, as shown in a few videos about how to maximise old Freddy's power.
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It gave him pressure though, that's what old Freddy was about. You wasted like a good 20 seconds of progress all due to Freddy pressing M2 on you. Imagine that across all 4 survivors and games last ages.
Also it did help you kill if you knew how to use him, like this:
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Yes because everyone knows that when a killer finds a survivor instead of just going ahead and hitting them what they would rather do is spend time walking behind them spamming a "go to sleep" power to finally be able to do anything to them.
Not to mention that at that point the survivor could neutralize the whole thing by failing a skill check or getting woken up by a teammate. This is why (as multiple have alluded too) Freddy had a very tunneling playstyle, because once you go through the hassle of putting someone to sleep you weren't about to let them get away, you were downing that person come hell or high water as you had already invested that much time into putting them to sleep, and then hitting them.
It's not "pressure" because focusing on putting ONE survivor at a time to sleep and then downing them is basically the typical DBD killer loop except with extra steps of "putting them to sleep" first. Pressure is obtained either through map mobility or ending loops quickly. Old Freddy had neither, he was an M1 killer with a clunky power and some natural slowdown that was countered by something as simple as failing a skillcheck.
He literally could not patrol a hook at all, even in situations where it was called for, as awake survivors were intangible to him.
Like I said, you seem to have a thing for making this game harder on yourself than it is, so I mean have your opinion, but
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killer finds a survivor instead of just going ahead and hitting them what they would rather do is spend time walking behind them spamming a "go to sleep" power to finally be able to do anything to them.
The thing it, Freddy can put the survivor asleep no matter what. The killer cannot hit the survivor 100% of the time. This would make people leave the asleep survivor and they have to waste progress waking up.
Not to mention that at that point the survivor could neutralize the whole thing by failing a skill check or getting woken up by a teammate.
This is called "pressure", stalling the game.
Freddy had a very tunneling playstyle, because once you go through the hassle of putting someone to sleep you weren't about to let them get away, you were downing that person come hell or high water as you had already invested that much time into putting them to sleep, and then hitting them.
The thing is, you WERE going to let them go away, then you could put other survivors asleep and make them waste more time. You would only do chases you know you can best. Even if the chase does take a while you should be sleeping people in the progress, stalling the game further.
It's not "pressure" because focusing on putting ONE survivor at a time to sleep and then downing them is basically the typical DBD killer loop except with extra steps of "putting them to sleep" first.
As I said, you should be putting multiple survivors asleep at a time.
Pressure is obtained either through map mobility or ending loops quickly.
Yes, but stalling the game also counts as pressure. Old Freddy stalls the game like mad, making survivor action speed slow down, and forcing failed skill checks. Remember, failing skill checks IS slowdown.
He literally could not patrol a hook at all, even in situations where it was called for.
Throughout my many hours playing old Freddy, I barely had to patrol a hook. And if i did, that's 2 free sleeps and a chase. Hell. Yes.
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Whatever you say dude, you've got your opinion, I've got mine, and mine has been backed up by other people in the thread.
For your sake I hope they give you a killer in the vein of Old Freddy someday, I'm pulling for ya. But no I don't think most people would like to see a Freddy revert considering right now he's one of maybe three or four killers that are viable at top ranks regardless of map.
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Funny how before freddy was reworked nobody like him and was begging for him to be changed and when they change him all of a sudden everybody wants old freddy back. Kinda makes me feel bad for the devs
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Are you for real? Yeah lets just bring back the weakest killer in the history of DBD. Old Freddy basically was worse than just a m1 killer, he had no power. Great pressure? Sure, just walking through the map and waiting at least 5 seconds so they go to sleep in order to hit them, and then they wake themselves up with a skillcheck. Never again.
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If you are saying this like he was better, its just plain wrong according to stats. Personal prefference aside, the stats dont lie. Freddy went from one of the lowest kill rate to the highest after the rework. If you like him better or not, that is a fact.
The first iteration of Freddy maybe could be good enough if he stayed that way, because he was good at slugging. Still had problems in many situations but wasnt almost completely useless against an average team.
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The reason his kill rate was low is because nobody knew how to properly play him (aside from a few people like me), also stats don't determine how good a killer is. According to stats nurse is the current worse killer.
If people actually learned old Freddy, they would've realised how good he was, but they didn't, and they kept their "7 second fedora man bad" mentality which ruined him.
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I also hope freddy comes back as another killer, with some added buffs, of course.
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he went from the worst killer to the most boring killer
idk which i prefer
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No. I have too many bad memories of self care (skills checks whenever) and adrenaline screwing me over.
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Ah yes, the "no one knew how to do it but me, he was good I swear! You were all just bad!" argument.
You realize how insane you sound here right? Apparently you are just the one who understands this game so much more than anyone else you saw the hidden OP nature in a killer pretty much unanimously considered the worst in the game. Sure bud, whatever you say.
And Nurse's stats are skewed because if you play Nurse the first couple games you will be TERRIBLE because her learning curve is easily the steepest in the game. Meanwhile I can teach a monkey how to play someone like Billy in about 5 minutes and they'll at least be reasonably effective.
Freddy's numbers were in the toilet all across the board, you can't put that on statistical anomaly and you certainly can't pretend people weren't willing to give him a chance. Freddy is easily the most iconic figure in horror in this game (except for perhaps Leatherface). People WANTED him to be good, he just WASN'T
Yep, it's the community's fault, they just couldn't see his greatness or your brilliance. This is comical, I've never seen someone with a superiority complex like this before, it's downright hilarious.
Look if your whole thread point was "I liked old Freddy, I wish I could play him again" that's a perfectly reasonable statement and opinion, but this "old Freddy was OP you noobs just didn't know how to play him right" nonsense is just making you look crazy.
I assume next you'll be telling us all about how Legion is actually secretly OP and everyone "just doesn't know how to play him right".
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Old Freddy sucked at chases and the only change they needed to make was to improve his chase. There should have been some sort of indicator as to when you were invisible or visible during the transition phase. If old Freddy had dream snares or fake pallets he would be mid tier i'd say, and he would still be fun.
And he wouldn't have that BS teleport.
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I have to agree with OP in sone aspects OG Freddy had a certain charm that reworked Freddy just doesn't. Yes new Freddy is without a doubt stronger and more 'viable' but he isn't as much fun.
As far as whether or not he was good at high ranks, I'd like to point out that there are people who play legion, clown, or Wraith effectively at rank 1. And they are almost universally considered the lowest of the low.
If I'm not mistaken, a freddy won a tournament.
Every killer is viable depending on the person playing him.
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I disagree the OP.
Old Freddy was a low tier, but so low he had a tier for himself alone.
Now? OMG, hes amazing.
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Calm down then.
Ah yes, the "no one knew how to do it but me, he was good I swear! You were all just bad!" argument.
There were very few Freddy mains, but they did exist, I was one of them, Otz played him a bit and the main godlike Freddy main was Hows it hanging, who really showed me his true potential.
Also I never said he was OP, just that he was good.
And Nurse's stats are skewed because if you play Nurse the first couple games you will be TERRIBLE because her learning curve is easily the steepest in the game.
Lets replace nurse here with Freddy and change a few things:
"Freddy's stats were screwed because the first couple games you played you wouldn't know how to play Freddy properly due to how much of a unique play-style he had."
See how its kinda the same?
Yep, it's the community's fault, they just couldn't see his greatness...
Well to be honest it kind of is. Now i'm not blaming anybody for thinking hes bad - I can see why you'd think that but I heavily disagree. Its the people at the time who thought their opinion was fact, and how they played one game as Freddy not knowing how to play him and got destroyed. Them constantly pulling up the "7 seconds" thing even though people have shown its not that bad and its balanced out with his pressure ruined him and convinced the devs to tweak him. You have to remember this was a while ago, where people were toxic AF. Thankfully nowadays people are actually listening to the other side of the argument.
Look if your whole thread point was "I liked old Freddy, I wish I could play him again" that's a perfectly reasonable statement and opinion, but this "old Freddy was OP you noobs just didn't know how to play him right" nonsense is just making you look crazy.
K.
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He was fun to play against because 19 times out of 20 you would be walking all over him, he had nothing, no chase potential, no map control, no gen pressure, nothing. You didn't have to use your brain to play against him, it was a walk in the park and you could play as casually as you wanted
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I'll say it then.
Old Freddy was OP in the right hands.
He had slow down, infinite aura reading (if you weren't running M&A on Freddy you were crazy), dream transition mindgames, and no few totally insane add-ons (old Red Paint Brush was near broken (Jumpscare Freddy) and Jump Rope seemed to have an unmentioned side effect of skillcheck reduction).
And you could always guarantee the 4k by slugging the 3rd guy.
Unless you got genrushed bad or the Survivors brought a Key, or skillchecks were constantly screwing (I mean constantly, since even one or two unlucky ones could often HELP you in the long run) you over, the Survivors didn't stand a chance.
People called Old Freddy bad because nobody knew how to play him and there were quite a few game elements that seemed to exist solely to screw him over.
You gave the right person control of Freddy, and they could do better than all but the best Nurses. They'd get more points too, since people wouldn't just DC or kill themselves.
Freddy needed a rework IMO, but not to make him stronger, but less frustrating for either side, since good/lucky Freddys stomped and bad/really unlucky Freddys got stomped with no in between.
This said, I'd kill to have him back instead of New Freddy.
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I know all this discussion its not something to change anything at all. But even in a discussion like this you should refer to what standards you are talking about.
Saying you or a skilled player was good with Freddy and he didnt had to be reworked because of this its not a very good argument. First what actually you consider good, and what is your standard? For most people, including the devs, saying a killer is good means he is either easy to learn and use, or have very high potential due to his power (like Huntress and Nurse IF mastered, meaning they have low kill rates despite having high potential).
I can agree the very first version of Freddy had some potential, but its not nearly as good as this new version of Freddy from both standards. One thing I can also agree is that the first version of Freddy was more original and more fun to play with, but that doesnt make him a "better" killer. When he was changed he already became very weak and easy to counter. New Freddy is not as nearly as fun as the first version, but he has more map control and more chase potential which is two of the trademarks that make the best killers in the game unnanimously. If that isnt enough to convince now he has very high pick rate and kill rates that just proves this point.
I think its fun to argue how he was more original or more interesting to play, but clearly in terms of performance there is no denying he is better in the general sense devs and players think.
In summary, I think you are wasting your time trying to prove he was better in these standards, because everyone can see the charts and say otherwise (specially regarding the reworked Freddy 2nd version). You should probably focus on his originality or his gameplay, or fun, instead of saying he was better because you were better with him. No one will change the game because a handfull of people were better with him in said version. Think about changing your angle, otherwise its really pointless to discuss something so easy to dismiss.
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New one tunnels just as hard. Goes to show it was never about him being weak, its just tunnelers being tunnelers
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No. Old Freddy had no pressure. Waste 20 seconds? It took 7 to bring them to the dream world, and if they were already on a gen, they would just miss their next skill check and wake up before going to sleep. Not only could survivors deny you your power, but they could deny you ever even hitting them. By failing.
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I think you kinda missed the point I was trying to make.
Saying you or a skilled player was good with Freddy and he didnt had to be reworked because of this its not a very good argument.
This is true, however, i'm not saying we should bring Freddy (or a substitute) back because I was good with him, we should get him back because of the other reasons I listed.
First what actually you consider good, and what is your standard?
A good killer in my eyes is someone who doesn't break the game (like old Legion) and who can beat good teams reliably meaning they have high potential, old Freddy had good potential, but barely anybody realised it.
When he was changed he already became very weak and easy to counter.
This is what I think you missed, i'm debating that old Freddy was good and should be brought back in some form. Even if they kept new Freddy in the game, a spin off of old Freddy would be great as he was both fun (which is kinda subjective) and viable. IMO new Freddy is just barely better than Old, but i'm pretty certain the majority of people in this community hate versing him.
This is what i'm kind of getting at: He was slightly weaker than current Freddy, but more fun for most. I personally would class that as a better killer.
In summary, I think you are wasting your time trying to prove he was better in these standards, because everyone can see the charts and say otherwise (specially regarding the reworked Freddy 2nd version).
You kinda contradicted yourself here, as you said earlier, huntress and nurse have low kill rates but high potential. Now i'm not saying old Freddy is as good as nurse, but its the same situation. Few knew how to play him properly, which is why his kill rate was low. As for fun factor, I see very few people saying new is fun. I find him fun to play as and against, but the majority of the community I would say doesn't. With your last point, whats the point in not changing something only a handful of people in the community find not a problem? It goes both ways.
To clear a few things up I don't want new Freddy changed, but if it meant getting old back id be all for it. Id rather prefer getting a different killer with a similar ability.
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Them missing a skill check is regressing a gen, making them waste time, which is pressure. I wouldn't class it as "denying" a power if you're making them waste that much time.
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Old Freddy was only threatening if you had class photo. Otherwise he was garbage. If you didn't have 4k by the time 5 gens were completed you literally had no chance to come back from that. New Freddy is much stronger becouse he actually has map pressure, teleports and snares to slow god loops down. This thread is like made by a survivor main
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Okay I'm a freddy main, current freddy and old freddy (started playing just after the first nerf).
He was #########. There's no other way around that, he was absolute #########. He didn't have pressure, he had a sleep world where you dial a skillchecks and all of his pressure vanishes. Other survivor? Pressure gone. His power was a hindrance not a help, and he was the only killer I felt okay seeing noed on.
His power was countered by rng, which is not something you want ever. He had nothing to assist in chases and it was pallet drop into pallet drop into pallet drop into ######### that's 5 gens done. There's a difference between a power helping in chase and having no power, and freddy had worse. He had a hindrende not a help, you had to wait 7 seconds after you found someone to hit them, by which point they find a loop and yay.
He was fun, when I played him god was he fun, and definitely underrated. But just because sometime is underrated doesn't mean it's good, just not as bad as people think.
He also was a noob stomper, strong against new players but find someone who can hold w and you're incredibly weak.
I never want to see old freddy again.
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Original Freddy was way too weak, and this was coming from a Freddy Main from his release as he was weak even on release.
Almost everyone tunneled as him, making him boring as hell to play against, and waking up was so damn easy that his power was almost useless if a survivor just sat on a generator. His reworked form is far stronger with high map pressure and he is strong in the chase with both of his powers.
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It only makes it regress like 3%. That's more than made up for by the seven seconds that it took for them to go to sleep. I have had a 4 man swf complete a generator in my face without me being able to put any of them to sleep because they just kept blowing the gen. 1 person blows the generator, and everyone wakes up.
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Failed skill checks have a 10% regression penalty + 3 second pause which adds up to 11 seconds. Assume it takes 4 seconds to get the skillcheck (which is quite fast). Then, in 15 seconds, you have only made 2 seconds of progress. Now assume you put a survivor to sleep twice who is soloing a gen and you find someone else. That gen now lasts over 100 seconds to complete. All Freddy had to do was press M2 twice and find another survivor (which was easy for him).
Also you got unlucky with that 4 man.
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He had pressure, let me repeat myself from the other guy:
Failed skill checks have a 10% regression penalty + 3 second pause which adds up to 11 seconds. Assume it takes 4 seconds to get the skillcheck (which is quite fast). Then, in 15 seconds, you have only made 2 seconds of progress. Now assume you put a survivor to sleep twice who is soloing a gen and you find someone else. That gen now lasts over 100 seconds to complete. All Freddy had to do was press M2 twice and find another survivor (which was easy for him).
That is pressure, stalling the game.
Also if you used the transition to your advantage, getting free hits was easy, so he did have something in a chase. I linked a video somewhere in the thread.
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All that stallin' don't mean much if he has nothing to aid him in downing people within that time. Sure, he can get the first hit pretty easily if you mindgame correctly, but then what? At that point, he's a Pig with no ambush.
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Good point, but he had a few things to help him. In the dream transition you could mindgame the survivors at pallets, getting a hit as long as you did it correctly. When visible, go around a side of the pallet, when invisible, double back and get the hit. This could be done in many ways such as pretending as though you're leaving an area, just to appear right back.
The reason this wasn't used much is that there was no indication of when you were invisible. Only the good Freddys memorised the timing for this and was a reason his common block add on that reduced the transition by 0.5 seconds was so good.
Also if he got pallets down he could herd and force people going into deadzones if the game was lasting a while (which it should).
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Again, what do you do from there after you waste your time mindgaming for the first hit? Old Freddy had absolutely zero tools to assist him in a chase, meaning he is entirely at the mercy of both the skill level of the opposing team and the layout of the map.
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Pretty much describes old freddy
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I don't understand why anyone would want that ability back it was so god awful in design.
His only power is also something that stops him from interacting with survivors and can actually hurt you by causing downed people to get up or for infinite chases or gens getting done in your face etc...
He was literally an m1 killer outside of his own handicap power. He did nothing, N O T H I N G outside of holding m2 to then m1 7 seconds later. If you want old Freddy just play Trapper and wait 7 seconds before hitting someone, and you're playing basically the same killer minus his TR stuff.
I'll admit the sniper addons made using his power really funny on open maps where you could sleep people from really far away but that was just a meme, his power is still a handicap in every single way unless they redo it so you can at least stop awake survivors from interacting with things so you can't get t-bagged while sitting there doing nothing.
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Then you had a choice:
- Bail the chase, and sleep and hit someone else
- Keep chasing if you know they're about to go down because of a deadzone
- Go back to someone you hit earlier and hit them down.
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Spot all the people who never played Freddy and thought he was trash because that's what everyone else said.
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All the people complaining honestly just sounds like you didn't know how to properly use him. It's like new people who played Nurse and immediately stopped when it actually required skill.
He was fun, although OP in my opinion. Seeing people across the entire map while in the dream world no matter where you were? Unable to wake up unless it was a failed skill check which meant constant Gen regression or unable to heal yourselves. Can't be seen unless Survivors are sleeping so he can find you a lot easier, also mind game you to get that first hit when you fall asleep He was legit built for end game with his power and perks combined. Now as new Freddy, his power sucks for end game and isn't great when matched with his perks.
I don't mind new Freddy, a tad boring but he's only stronger due to his newfound map pressure.
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He not coming back so stop asking for him from your truely a prework freddy main
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This is also just my personal opinion. But I feel like the people who want old Freddy back are Survivor mains who hate going against new Freddy because he's difficult to win against while the people who main Killer are mostly the ones who want to maintain new Freddy. That's just what I'm guessing because no Killer main hates new Freddy but will admit he's boring due to his power and is a brain dead killer to play.
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