Suggestion for SWF balance.
So, I do play solo survivor, if anyone has seen any of my other comments they'll know that. But if I play SWF, I usually have at least 2 people escape or more.
That being said, I've been thinking about how to balance the tracking of the killer that SWF gives survivors. It'd be unfair to have constant tracking for the killer, so that's out. But since communication is the biggest advantage of SWF, I thought about how to make it more balanced so friends can communicate but also not have an immense advantage over the killer.
While it's more than likely been suggested before I'm going to suggest it again.
In game voice chat - Optional for solo players with a "Push to Talk" button. Mandatory for any SWF with NO "Push to Talk" option.
Voice chat radius - With the same principle as a terror radius, the killer can only hear talking within a certain distance of the talking survivor.
Perks - Obviously since we have perks to increase and decrease the terror radius of killers we'd need perks to do the same for Voice Chat radius.
Examples: Decrease distance at which a killer hears your voice, but repair gens slower. Or; Increase Voice Chat Radius and Repair speed (since you're working faster you're making more noise).
This kind of system would have the impact of High Risk + High Reward style of gameplay for survivors. It would reward both stealth and overt styles of play. I believe this can work because the high risk play can be faster, but the killer can find and track you easier too, meaning teamwork is key to survive. While stealth play takes more time, but the killer needs to track and engage survivors more carefully.
The idea likely has some issues that need to be worked out, but I honestly think this would make the game more fun as a whole. It offers the choice to survivors to play how they want, but also gives killers the challenge in choosing how they want to hunt survivors. I also believe this would dissuade camping and tunneling in the game, not entirely but for the most part.
If you've read all of this up to this point thank you, I'd love to hear constructive feedback.
Comments
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Ah yes, because everything that is talked by friends is the game and the game only. Don't get me wrong, they do tell themselfes info but they mostly talk about random stuff. Which this would get them killed. (most likely)
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You're not wrong, people talk about random stuff, but that's not the issue. The issue is that the information they actively share can be considered game breaking. The game wasn't designed for survivors to have that level of communication.
BHVR needs to take the health of the overall game into consideration. Not just the convenience of SWF groups. I'm not saying SWF is bad in any way, but it's opened the door to serious issues with how it and the game interact. I love playing with my friends, but I'd fully support a change that's in the best interest of the game. This is supposed to be a game of survival with minimal communication, relying on your team mates to work together.
So I ask you, if this change doesn't seem fair or balanced to you. How would you balance SWF? Because balancing Solo to the level of SWF would send this game into a downward spiral.
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I do not understand your idea. How is any of the methods you have proposed would stop SWF groups from talking on Discord and completely neglect the "voice chat radius"? The problem here lies in the mere fact that the devs should have added the voice chat for Survivors from the beginning and ballance the game to be fair for 4SWF vs Killer, not for 4 randoms vs Killer. Because that's how the game is ballanced now. It's only a fair game when it's 4 random Survivors. But as soon as there is SWF and communication - the ballance is gone.
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Good question, and I'll try to explain so you understand the idea.
In game voice chat - Optional for solo players with a "Push to Talk" button. ****Mandatory for any SWF with NO "Push to Talk" option.**
So specifically the part with SWF. If you want to play SWF, you have no choice but to have voice chat enabled ingame. And push to talk isn't an option. Noise in your microphone triggers the voice chat radius without exception. If you don't wish for this to be the case, you can play solo.
This is a bit drastic, but balancing the game to the level of SWF goes against the core concept the game was built on. Four random strangers working together with minimal communication to survive. The entity obviously didn't throw them into the map with comms.
However, lets say we balance the game to 4SWF vs 1 Killer. Every killer would need an EXTREME tracking buff, while some killers would become completely unplayable. There are killers now that work very well with 4SWF - Hillbilly, Nurse and if I'm not mistaken Oni. All of them can have immense map pressure, which is what you need against 4SWF. Others that can't traverse the map quickly need major tracking buffs to match the amount 4SWF can track the killer.
Point is, you CAN balance it either way, but when trying to balance the game for 4SWF vs 1 Killer, it is a VERY DEEP rabbit hole. I hope this kinda makes more sense, but like I said in my first post I'm sure there are issues with my suggestion. But quite frankly, it would be easier to bring 4SWF down to the level of solo than it would be to bring Solo + KIller to the level of SWF. There would be far less complications that way.
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So I ask you, if this change doesn't seem fair or balanced to you. How would you balance SWF? Because balancing Solo to the level of SWF would send this game into a downward spiral.
Either not touching them at all or ... bringing solos to SWF levels, then buffing killers accordingly.
We do have PTB which they could use to try this super changed version of DBD and see how that plays out. Kinda like Overwatch did their experimental gamemode in their game. They try super weird changes and see if they work out or not.
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This is a bit drastic, but balancing the game to the level of SWF goes against the core concept the game was built on. Four random strangers working together with minimal communication to survive.
The problem with that concept is that it's extremely flawed. No one can phohibid 4SWF from using Discord or any other means of communication. Not even your way would stop it. I believe, they would either just deal with the double voice when close to each other or find some means of blocking their mic device from the game so it doesn't see any mic on their machine. So, it's always going to be 3 Survivors on gens and 1 in a chase because:
1) they always know when and where the chase is going on,
2) many maps are full of the completely un-mindgamable loops where the only way for a Killer to get a hit would be a mistake from a Survivor's side.
Then they will blame Killer for not pressuing the gens enough, as if the Killer can be everywhere at once. Letting one Survivor go and then going for another would only waste more time because they would need to be found first and then it would be 3 gens 1 chase all over again.
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If you take SWF out of the game then there will be no need to balance it.
Every single game I have played as killer has always had a 4 man SWF group. I think I'm done readying up with teams that are already carrying any kind of equipment on them.
Right now I'm on a 15 minute penalty because of an unfair advantage towards a 4man swf lobby
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It's statistically impossible to get a 4SWF group every game.
That being said, removing it would cause severe if not irreparable damage to the game as a whole. If people can't play with their friends most wouldn't play at all.
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Survivors will absolutely bully killers if they know that killers can hear them talk.
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So, if we can't balance 4SWF to the level of solo, do either of you have ideas for how to balance Solo + Killers with 4SWF?
And just want to say thanks to you both for having constructive criticism and we can have a good conversation on this :D
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How would that happen? I'd like to know so I can think of solutions or others can.
Also, do you have any thoughts on the rest of the discussion?
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In all honesty, the idea is rather simple - give all Survivors an access to an unlimited voice chat, starting with the lobby while waiting for the game to start. Then base the whole game around the fact that every party of Survivors has become an SWF.
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I've got a suggestion for balancing the killer around SWF. Solo survivor would benefit from this idea because they would be less likely to play in lobbies with SWFs.
Please see the idea and leave some feedback here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/138538/the-imp-this-is-how-we-balance-swfs#latest
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Okay, but consider not everyone has a mic and not everyone will use it.
If you balance the killer to 4SWF with that in mind, I have a feeling people will get mad and say it's unfair for killers to be so strong if a survivor chooses not to use their mic.
Would that just be "Too bad" or should there be a system in place for something like that?
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There are the games where mic is a must have. However, adding a text chat for Survivors is also an option. Besides, even if one Survivor doesn't want to talk, they will still hear what the others talk about and can adjust their actions accordingly.
They may say whatever they want, but every competitive game should be ballanced around the highest skill play only. That means ballancing the game to be fair in a case of the best possible Survivors players playing versus the best possible Killer player. Anything less skilled that would seem unballanced would be a simple matter of "learn to play", because the game gives everything one would need to be effective. That way both sides would have equal chances of winning, and the outcome will come down to their personal skill in case of a Killer and their ability to work in a team as Survivors. No side should have any favours. And if somebody refuses to play in a team, they should get reported and punished by the game (time out, low priority, Honour system, there are many ways to do that).
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The easiest way would be giving survivors Bond/Kindred/Empathy that cannot be blinded. But ofc other perks that do similiar thing would have to get redesigned... That's why this idea is sketchy and would take a really long time to implement. Which imo isn't worth the effort.
And then buffing killers numbers wise or/and maps wise. But again, i would just leave SWF as it is. Or give some bloodpoint bonuses for killers that are versing SWF.
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So, while I agree with you that balancing it to the highest level of play means you simply need to improve, it has one major problem I can think of.
In any competitive game, the people who actually play at the highest level are FAR less than below it. If DBD was entirely based on skill this wouldn't be an issue - games like Rocket League showcase this well. The average player is leaps and bounds below the highest level of play, but what separates them is only skill. So anyone can get there with and effort. If you had perks and addons in Rocket League that balance would shatter. Because it's not just about skill at that point, you have "Meta builds".
If we balance DBD to the highest level of play, it wouldn't be about skill only. Since perks and addons have a massive effect on HOW you play. Just because a game can be balanced at the highest levels doesn't guarantee that it will be at the average level.
Again, I don't disagree with you. But there are some issues that can't be remedied with "learn to play".
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I disagree with that argument. Every competitive game has a meta. Take MOBA genre for example - characters keep changing Tiers with every patch, different items you can buy during the match constantly become more or less relevant... But these game do have the balance in them still, even in that balance changes from Season to Season. The same could be happening to Perks in DbD. Buff a useless Perk significantly or rework it completely - and people start using it instead of some other one that was meta. The tricks is to keep various builds balanced and viable at the same time, allowing people to experiment and find them instead of being bound to just one due to it being the most effective.
And it's about time Survivors start to actually learn things instead of getting their free wins while T-bagging and clicking flashlights rapidly to show how cool they are (not).
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