Why do killers try to justify toxicity?
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I don't think a lot of people consider their gameplay toxic.
Camping and tunneling with an ebony. You think it's toxic, I personally agree that it's unfun. But doesn't mean everyone in the playerbase thinks it's toxic. A play style really shouldn't be viewed as 'toxic' either. Just because we don't like something doesn't mean it has to be personal in anyway. That's why I think people agree and disagree with the other side being toxic.
When I get camped and tunneled by a killer or mori'd off my first hook. I don't get mad and take it as in I've been treated badly. He was going to do the same thing to whoever got pulled off that hook. I just hit the continue button and queue up for another game instantly.
Survivor players are obviously toxic in a different way. Post game chat. They flame and talk crap. Usually trying to push it further and further. By making it racial, homophobic, or mother jokes that we all enjoy.
Maybe that's why I've never understood why survivors call killers 'toxic'. Because I never see killers start an argument in the post game lobby. It's always the survivors that start typing wars. So every time I see.... Killers are toxic I just giggle and wonder where the hell they're finding these toxic killers. Playing against mori's and campers might be UNFUN. But it's not toxic. When a game puts in offerings and add-on's - That's what they're there for to be used. Then they encourage it even more by adding mori challenges and dailies. Is it fun to play against for most? No. Is it toxic, no.
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The reason everyone is so toxic is because you've created an atmosphere where you allow it. Honestly I feel as if they just made killers five percent faster across the board made decisive strike way harder to use it would force survivers to be less toxic because they have less room to be. Or just make each individual killers perk more effective by restricting it less. The game is tipped in the survivors favor and in a game about struggling to survive I think that the devs have got it backwards.
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Agreed. By definition, just playing by the rules isn't at all toxic. Well put.
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If you have to be powerful to be toxic how are killers toxic? Head nodding?
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I got reported for teabagging once the killer was nodding and facecamping so i teabagged at the gate and he sent me some very mean messages. I get toxic killers more then survivors. Im on xbox so no postgame chat. Only thing i consider toxic is letting the survivors bleed out which alot of insidous bubbas like to do or nodding while facecamping and hitting a hooked survivor
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One of those things. Every person individually is going to take things differently. What is toxic to some isn't to others. I'm about a 50/50 player. I played a ton of killer a long time ago. It was really my only role for a bit. Now for the last year maybe longer I prefer to play survivor. I never took teabagging as toxic. And as a survivor I teabag also. Some killers probably find it toxic and others don't. But when I drop a pallet on you and teabag you. I'm literally saying in actions, "If you don't break this pallet I'm going to loop you on it for the next minute." That's all I mean by teabagging. So if you want to take it as me being toxic, that's on you. But others might not have 'thick' skin.
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Not the point I was trying to make. I was basically saying the killers are weak so then they get bullied all the time. They then go into other games and be super toxic by camping and tunneling afterwards survivers go into another game and be super toxic. If you broke up the cycle by making the side that's supposed to be stronger (aka the killer) actually stronger then the weaklings then the weaklings can't be toxic because they are too busy running for their lives.
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You lost me at "nodding"
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It’s not just if they had “a few bad games”. Apparently if you bring in certain items they get upset and start calling the match “EZ” when they bring in the most powerful add-ons. Flashlights can be heavily countered and he brought in Lightborn so I don’t see what the big deal is.
Most of the time playing killer is the more stressful role so that’s why some are a bit stand-offish.
Most of the time I get messages from survivors though when I’m killer not the other way around. But if the killer is a douche then they’ll message you if they win.
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But if killers are weaklings they can't be toxic by your logic. Either side being stronger and bullying the other probably wouldn't be very healthy.
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Same. It's pretty much just the killer's teabag.
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How is nodding while facecamping not toxic? Imo its the equivalent to teabagging at a pallet.
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I would say that the face camping is the toxic part. I don't think nodding is really a big deal. He's just moving his mouse up and down. He's standing there doing nothing else. He mine as well move his mouse up and down.
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I would be more focused on the fact that the killer is face camping, not the fact that they're moving their camera up and down.
It doesn't bug me, the same way survivors teabagging doesn't bug me. They're just doing a silly repetitive thing with their controls. I still can't believe people get bugged over somebody crouching in a video game or looking up and down.
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Heres the thing it dosent bother me personally but if i were to complain about facecamping alone then i would get comments saying "iTs A LeGiT STraTeGy gIt gUd" which i really dont wanna deal with
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I dont I'm just a dick to all survivors, it's funny because they'll bm me playing wholesomely all the time.
On a real note, killers and survivors have bad days where they take their anger out on the other side by being toxic. Or they have a few bad games as you said.
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I used to consider facecamping toxic but apparently its a legit startegy and i need to git gud so im complaing about nodding while facecamping since its still the same as complaing about facecamping but i dont get replies telling me i need to gud gud
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And your right. People would say that if you made a thread about face camping. But there's a lot of trolls on the forums as well. No body likes face camping. I don't even think face campers like face camping. It's just apart of the game and once in a blue moon you have to die for it. It sucks. When a killer knows that he's lost a game. And he goes into 'face camping mode' ... Just gotta deal with it. No one wants to be that guy on the hook. There's no reason that you can't be upset about it.
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I understand what you're saying honestly. I don't wanna just throw your point out the window, but you say something that isn't even that toxic (like nodding) and the title of your thread focuses on killers.
I'm actually part of the crowd of that mentality of "it's a strategy" kind of. There's times, like during the EGC, where you simply don't want to let go of the last person you have on the hook. Times like that, I'll say that it's a strategy. That's why I can't take "toxicity" arguments very seriously. I like to respect people enough to not be toxic (like I try not to mori people off first hook and whatnot) but at the end of the day somebody will still call me toxic.
I've had survivors complain because literally I was playing the game normally except for trying to kill everyone. I was just playing Billy and had a chainsaw daily, so I chased people around and hooked them all but just didn't kill them, and let them go at the end. Then at the end of the game, one of the survivors starts complaining about "wow I hate all these farming killers what a boring game," to which their team mates replied "wow. sometimes killers just can not be anything but the bad guy" or something. I appreciated that, at least somebody recognized I wasn't trying to be boring.
I've also had people telling me I was facecamping when I wasn't anywhere around the hook either, maybe patrolling the area at the very least. You can try to be a good guy and please people but you can't please everyone.
THAT'S why I think "killers try to justify toxicity."
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When I play killer, I don't think I've ever NOT seen survivors teabagging at pallets or exit gates, dancing around at the exit for 30 seconds instead of leaving, spamming GGEZ at the end, even had one group pull a 200 IQ teabag where they all lined up across the map when I was about to hook someone and all 3 teabagged the whole time I could see their auras from BBQ. Guess they assumed I was running it or knew somehow? Eh.
That last one was kinda funny, but it's pretty much all the norm.
When I play survivor, the killers tend to...just kill me. Maybe even give me the hatch at the end, which is pretty nice. (And I sure as hell have never seen the last survivor give a "free kill" to the killer!) Every now and then a killer will harass the last survivor and leave them on the ground, pick them up and drop them a bunch, all that nonsense, but that seems to be the exception rather than the norm. (It's telling that things like, "They used a mori!" are examples of a killer being "toxic" in people's minds.)
I really think that the nature of the game just encourages the behavior from survivors more so than from the killers, for a variety of gameplay and psychological factors.
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Survivors are equally as toxic as killers and i agree facecamping is a startegy in egc but when you do it with 5 gens up thats when i think it's annoying. I've had killers say they facecamped cause of genrush when in reality they facecamped after 1 gen popped 2 minutes into the game. Both sides make up stories to justify playing in a annoying way
Recently there was a thread about killers facecamping and tunneling and alot of the comments were saying "they had a few bad games" instead of just admitting the fact that some killers are also annoying. When there was a thread about survivor toxicity no one was defending the survivors saying " they had a few bad games.
thats why i made this post about killers and not both sides
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True. you just asume that the next group of survivors is as toxic as the last. And you are often right.
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Dude, A week ago I would have argued with you, but after finally being able to play killer since console got dedicated servers I totally get it!
I agree 100%
What's astonishing for me is that when I play survivor I swear it feels like there's never enough pallets to last me longer than a 20-40 second chase.
When I play killer I'm like "Where the hell are all these pallets coming from? This map NEVER gives me this many pallets???" lol
I never had an issue with ruin as a survivor, it was kind of fun looking around for that glowing totem. The one I absolutely HATED as survivor was iron maiden. Not because I hide a lot, just because the few times I did, the killer always had this perk.
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yep
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The problem with hexes is RNG. It gladly spawns them in the open fields or on hills with no cover so everyone can see it from 60 meters away. I stopped using it when I got 4 games in a row where it spawned a survivor at my hex and I Was losing my perk inside 15s of the game each time.
Nothing will be done to help killers though. If it inconveniences SWF, it inconveniences their money and so we're just taken for schmucks. Just like how survivors get 1000 points just for dying as obsession, just free participation trophies. Everything is anti-killer now.
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Honestly, it seems like most players (And the developers, perhaps) see the survivor side as the "real" game. The equivalent of the "canon ending" in a game that has multiple possible endings.
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The difference is that when someone t-bags at a palette, it doesn't ruin your game as the killer. In fact, you can kill them to make them pay for their insolence.
When a killer face camps you to death while smacking you and nodding, your game is ruined and the enjoyment of all the other survivors is too.
People are douches everywhere. That's very true.
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I haven't played enough killer yet to understand that frustration too much. I only just got NOED haha
What I did notice as survivor tho was how random all the totems spawn. The few times I legit was like "I'm just going to cleanse all the dull totems as my main objective" I couldn't find all of them for several matches in a row. Then I brought a map to help me out and was stunned by how obscure and random the dull totems spawn and how obvious the hex totems spawned.
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100%. Killers are expected to cough up for DLCs so they even have some level of core meta, but every time killers have found anything efficient it gets nerfed. Nurse is the last killer with meaningful map mobility? nerfed. Killers with slow mobility rely on hex ruin to stop gen-rush? nerfed. Killers use hexes at all? Spawn survivors by the hexes or put them on their own in the open on a hill. Killers can use iron grasp to actually take someone to a 2nd hook? nerfed.
Meanwhile they refuse to dare touch Decisive Strike, an anti-tunneling perk that all 4 survivors can have active at the same time (Which breaks the whole point). Player A can be hooked, Player B unhooks unsafely, if you hook player B player A will unhook unsafely so that they both have DS active and you must let them crawl to the exit gates over a full minute or you lose rank for even picking them up.
I will say though, I don't think the devs are biased because they think survivors are meant to win. Look how aggressively over-monetized this game is. £15 game, £70 core DLC, probably £500+ of cosmetics, and a rift pass. It's pro-survivor because 4 survivors paying for DLC is worth more money than 1 killer. THe problem now is no one wants to play killer, the balance has tipped so far it's just not fun to participate as a killer, and I think that makes a lot of killers turn toxic when they bought the game to play killer.
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Change the title to "Why do people try to justify toxicity" and I will actually read the post, otherwise this is just another thread pushing the "us vs them" mentality.
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This is understandable.
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Both sides try to justify toxicity but the thing im trying to discuss is a point i see mainly done by killers. Both sides are just as bad eachother but both sides use diffrent arguments and the one im discussing is used by killers
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Everyone knows survivors can't be toxic, holy art thou survivors.
Real talk, just had a game where 3 survivors in an SWF went into basement. First got punished for going for basement chest, and 2 others went suicide to try and unhook. one got free and got to use borrowed time on 2 people at once, and then when they all still died anyway (They were all rank 2-4 against me at rank 7), they called it bad game and said I was tunneling for just following people who were running blatantly to the basement.
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Because people think they matter when there nobody's.
killers are not the sugar plum fairy.
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You are being a bit of a hypocrite. In another post you tried to justify teabagging a killer because you didn't like what he did. You did something that many consider toxic and justify by blaming the killer. Why is it that some survivors feel that they can be as toxic as they want? Notice how I said "some" rather than blanketing the statement across the whole group.
Here's the thing about toxicity, it spreads. As the game becomes easier and easier for experienced survivors, some players find other things to make things fun for them, like harassing the killer. It's bad enough that killers are now forced to play sweaty almost every game, then they have to put up with constant harassment by bored survivors. Frustration leads to killers doing things that may be considered toxic.
That said, using perks and addons in the game is not toxic. Mori's are not toxic. NOED is not toxic. Face-camping (not regular camping) is (imo anyway), and I don't really understand that one. Playing killer has become extremely stressful lately, and I can see some killers getting frustrated and playing sweaty, but face-camping is just stupid. Also, a lot of survivors that complain about these things tend to omit the potentially toxic things they may have done that caused the killer to do something toxic.
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I think you're missing my point. I'm talking about whether bad behaviour towards someone who doesn't deserve it is justified. Whether it's understandable, whether it's likely to change, whether there are factors within the game that contribute to that person being more inclined towards bad behaviour, are all irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. If what you're trying to say is, "yes, taking your upset out on undeserving third parties is okay if you're having a really, really bad time" then I strongly disagree but I don't think I'll be able to change your mind easily. At this point, though, I'm just repeating myself so once again, I think the only productive conclusion is to agree to disagree.
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I'm not defeinding this, the OP is a question I answered
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This is not just a whole big misunderstanding. I'm pretty sure that the biggest part of "toxic people" is doing that totally on purpose because they have fun when people get mad.
And unfortunately the solution will not be to deal with it and have a happy game anyway, because that said majority will not stop by that, even if they don't get their wanted reaction. It has always been like that and always will be like that. In every game, in internet and everywhere else. DBD is probably not the platform for escalations, but if you don't control it, it's always
And @Clevite , I don't think we talk about toxicity with your mentionings, it is more like tbaggin, gestures, head nodding by the killer, hitting on hooks and stuff like that. When someone kinda explicitly tries to communicate "I'm here to kill your fun".
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Because in their head they’re always the victim. You’re right I see this all the time too. Tru3 put out a video not too long ago where a trapper brought his best add ons, ebony, plays like a bad word and leaves the last person on the ground until just before bleed out. He goes on to constantly talk about how he must have had a bad game as does most of his viewers.
But with survivors its always assumed they’re toxic just because. No I’ve definitely done it myself been toxic to a camping ######### because of having it game after game.
Best part? When a killer tries to tunnel you all game so if you make it out you tbag at the end. You ask them why they tunneled and they’ll always say “I tunneled because you tbagged”, yet its only at the exit gates I did that despite them tunneling/camping from the very start of the game. This happens all the time. There are some real mental gymnastics going on inside their head to flip things around like that.
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This is a literal "laughing at you". You think it is just pushing repeatedly some controls? Pretty abstract. You could also say "why do people bother when someone types an F in chat? Followed by a U. And a C. And so on. Just random key presses".
This is just a restricted way of communication, but has a meaning
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My games tonight: (Different sides as I had 3 Rituals to do)
Survivor: Pretty standard, escaped, gg's in chat after.
Survivor: Also standard, also escaped, gg's in chat after.
Survivor: Got killed, gg's in chat after.
Survivor: Downed as last one alive, killer took me to hatch. gg's in chat after.
Survivor: Killer just goofing off, didn't hit us more than a couple times, let us all go, laughing in chat after.
Killer: First survivor I see drops a pallet and teabags. Runs to next pallet and teabags. Mostly continues this way. Exit opens and group circles around the gate teabagging. "lol killer get git lol nub" in chat after.
Killer: Played against a small streamer and his group. Good game, no one was rude, gg's in chat after.
Killer: First guy I see runs to a pallet and teabags. Runs to next pallet and teabags. Runs to next one and teabags. I leave him alone but he continually walks out near me to bait me, I presume. Also has DStrike, so I assume he's the designated SWF team bait, but oh well. "######### killer tunneling me ######### noob ######### leave our friend alone" in chat after. They're all ~10 ranks above me, too.
Seriously, there's just something about survivors that causes them to act out. Maybe it's because they're always "protected" by having friends with them so everyone feels empowered to just let civility go because they have backup.
I dunno. I liked playing killer, but it's basically always a trollfest when I play killer and fairly friendly when I play survivor. So I'm driven more toward one than the other.
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Put the tinfoil hat away, there's not some exclusive club of toxic people that use secret code and do certain things that mean a certain thing. Some people just do things randomly. Survivors will teabag next to each other all the time. They're not walking over and trying to send passive aggressive vibes to each other, they're just messing around. Even if some people do nod or teabag or whatever to be toxic, that doesn't mean that literally any time somebody moves their camera up and down or crouches more than once in quick succession, that they're trying to be toxic.
Don't even try to make such an outlandish comparison while throwing out the word "abstract." There's no comparison to be made between pressing your ctrl key a couple times in game and actually typing "an F in chat? Followed by a U. And a C. And so on."
As for the killer nodding thing, not all nodding is for toxicity either. I've had plenty of moments, even playing as survivor, where I meme around with the killer exclusively through camera movements, by us making our heads say yes and no about certain things. It's not because we're trying to say "frick you" or anything. Even when I play killer, I'll nod my head every once in a while when I'm just messing around. Like I'll knock somebody on the ground, shake my character's head to say "no!" and run away. Is that toxic, just because I'm moving my camera around at them? Even if I'm not even killing them?
Once again, it's astounding to me how people can even try to make statements like this. Prime example here.
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9/10 every survivor dances or teabags at the exit for no reason they even teabags at hatch guess killers r just tried or the bull crap
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The problem about this is that survivor toxicity is praised whereas killer toxicity is (usually) disparaged... a double standard that makes things much harder for killers, and drives them to be toxic regardless of the complaints of the other side, because they know survivor mains are hypocrites in this regard.
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Same with Suvivor trying to justify playing SWF .. with party chat ( discord, etc) .... and use OOO perk and Head On perk...
after 4 survivor or 3 survivor out from the gate. They mock killer in post game chat. Why even u bother with this justify ?
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You know what’s toxic is Mori animation spamming. Why can’t they just force killers to follow through once they started it?
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Both sides get praised for playing in an annoying way. Monto when he plays killer or ayrun when he plays survivor they both bully the killer or survivor and get praised for it
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Here's the thing i teabagged a killer that was toxic to me hitting me on hook facecamping etc. The argument that i mentioned in this post "they had a few bad games" is an excuse used to justify toxicity to survivors who didnt do anything to you.
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Imma say this, since they are features to the game, technically they aren't toxic. They are just dick moves, that's all. In my philosophy, the killer can do whatever they want, they wanna facecamp? Go for it I don't care, your job either way is to kill me, just expect some salt in the endgame chat.
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For me thats the only possibility to win if they're swf. Object is just too good with vc.
On topic: You can't justify toxicity. Toxic twats stay toxic twats no matter what you do. Just ignore them and boop da schnoot!
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