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would two killers be overpowered?
i've been considering what would happen if there were two killers in a match. ( it would be too overpowered on its own i know ) what would happen if we upped the number of survivors,the area the map covers,the gens?
would that be fair?
Your thoughts
Best Answer
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It would be interesting yes and admittedly fun if "done right", but balance-wise it would be way too much when you look deeper into it. I don't even know if you could "do it right", since we're talking an increased map size, increased gen count, 8 Survivors and 2 Killers, etc. Before I even go into it, I only see this as a sort of "gag mode" to play.
I ask you this, what's stopping two Killers from using the strongest Killers as a duo? Now what would happen if you faced a 8 man SWFs on a map with double the Generators to do? It's unknown as to what might happen, but a lot of the community already dislikes SWFs as is... So facing 8 Survivors as once while on comms is a bit too much for some to handle.
Even if both Killers are using the best of the best, they'd still have a hard time with managing where to go, what to monitor, and overall what they can do against this. You also have to keep in-mind that the map has to increase in size, so a lot of Generators will just be completed off the bat because of the sheer size of the map itself.
Even if it was just 2 random Killers and 8 random Survivors, the matches would be extremely long and somewhat tedious in the grand-scheme of things. The idea is interesting, but it's just a novelty at the end of the day... I don't ever think this would be considered as an alternate game-mode, but that's just my opinion on it.
It's not a bad idea if it's non-ranked, but I don't see it ever being balanced unless some new mechanics were thrown into it.
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anything you think would balance it?
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I'm just one person, I couldn't really give you a for sure balance change to a game-mode like this.
If I had to say what they could do, they could try the alternative objective idea that some people toss around every so often. There has been some interesting ones like gathering parts for the Generators or gathering gas for them once they're completed. But unless something else was changed than I doubt the mode will ever be truly balanced.
Either the Killer side would be too OP from some of these changes or the Survivor side would be too OP because of the amount of Survivors that're present in-game. It would take a team to figure out what would work, a lot of things would need to be changed, maps would need to be altered to work with this game-mode, and yes even alternate objectives would have to be considered so Survivors don't instantly gen-rush the Killer duo.
If you're looking for a balance answer from me, than I don't know. I'd need a lot of help to figure that out.
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k thanks
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No problem, glad I could add to the conversation in some way.
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In theory it can be balanced.
However, if you simply doubled everything (2v8 with 14 gens, 10 of which are required ect) it would be Killer sided, or at least moreso than the existing mode.
The reason for this is simple:
Chase times with more than 1 Killer involved is easily brought down to less than half of the original time. In other words, 2 Killers chasing 1 Survivor can catch the Survivor in less than half of the time as a single Killer.
However, Survivors won't be able to get more than double their original gen-rush speed (still takes 2 waves of repairs to power the gates). So the Killer would have the same time to accomplish everything, but would be accomplishing stuff much faster.
Not to mention the existence of synergizing in other ways, for example a doctor paired up with a Spirit.
Doc makes people scream while the Spirit goes and "deals with them" while they are screaming and thus vulnerable.
If I'm being honest, the whole idea does sound cool. It's not like there aren't plenty of numbers to adjust in order to restore balance in a 2v8 mode. Repair speed, number of gens, number of REQUIRED gens ect.
Just a thought but I would try 8 required gens, 10 total gens and 3 gates. The number of required gens being reduced by 2 makes it possible to complete them all in a single wave, which is an important threshhold. However this is obviously counterbalanced by the above, and further counterbalanced by disproportionately less total gens and 1 less gate (using doubled existing numbers as a baseline).
Is that balanced? Probably not, but it's worth looking into.
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That's if both Killers are chasing individual Survivors and not splitting up the task overall. I agree that it would be more Killer sided since Killers can easily corner a Survivor at a small loop and insta-down them with two basic M1 hits.
But if both killers are on one Survivor, even if it's for a really short time, it still gives the other 7 Survivors enough time to pump out 2 or even 3 Gens if they're coordinated. If they're not than it's more like 1 or 2 Generators. I don't personally agree that this could be balanced unless major changes were made, but I do agree that the idea is fun.
I also agree that synergized Killers would probably be a head-ache for a lot of Survivors in the grand scheme of things. Doctor with Spirit, Hag with Trapper, Myers with Ghostface, etc. The concept is definitely cool though, but it's no more than a novelty game-mode at the end of the day.
I will say this though, it's definitely worth looking into for the fun of it. Will it ever be something more than a novelty idea? We'll have to see. The Community has said that they like the idea, but I don't personally see it being more than a KYFs style game-mode at it's core. And for the obvious, it would never be ranked, that probably shouldn't need to be mentioned though.
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just another idea: if they added new features specific to that gamemode?
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Define "features", can you clarify what you mean by that?
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2x doctors just spamming static blast with distressing and purple calm+Order addons would be hilarious. I would laugh so hard. Oh the screaming
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like things specific to that, for instance special generators or pallets new abilities etc.
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I'd argue that changes to gen ratios would qualify as a major change.
However balance isn't everything, so there would still be problems with the mode beyond that.
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Probably too strong, but I think it would be fun. This game needs some fresh ideas/new game modes to shake things up a bit, it grows increasingly stale after being pretty much unchanged gameplaywise since 2016 (only change of note being the endgame collapse).
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I think that the only way 2 killers in one match can ever be balanced is if there was one specific killer designed around it. Two people using a 95% movement speed killer with a mild secondary power seems fair. In a 2v8 mode with any killer allowed, I don't think that would be very balanced.
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True, it's something that needs to be thrown around a few times before even being considered.
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Plague pukes on every gen, top tier killer picks everyone off. Game is over.
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Spirit + Plague... You wouldnt' been able to counter injured sounds cause of coughing.
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Identity V features such a mode, but i never seem to find a link with the exact rule changes. For that duo killer mode, the rules include:
- No double killers
- 2 killers v 8 survivors
- Killers gain access to a quick message system the survivors have in this game by default.
- Only the biggest two maps are in the rotation for that mode
- 7 of (10 or 11) generators to power the gates
- Survivors need 3 hits to get downed, instant down abilities deal 2 states worth of damage. Sadly i dont know how healing speed is affected by the additional healthstate.(This game doesnt feature grabs but double damage during survivor actions, getting hit while vaulting etc is like being exposed). Everthing below max health obviously counts as 'injured'.
- Survivors suffer a repair speed penalty. Mightve been an all action speed penalty. It's been a while since i had the game installed, and the wording in the ruleset wasnt clear if its a 30% rpair speed or 30% penalty.
- Survivors can carry 2 items and switch them on the press of a button. (There are lots more items in that game than in dbd)
- Upon being hooked for the first time , a survivor doesnt get sacrificed for 30 seconds but also cannot be rescued during that duration.
- Everytime you'd gain BP, youd get the same amount of "money" to spend on special shops that spaewn in multiple locaqtions on the map. Survivors can purchase items while killers purchase upgrades to attack recovery, movement speed, ability cooldown etc.
It kinda works in IdV, and with similiar rules it might work in dbd too.maybe not the shop tho. Might also forgotten a rule or two.
And just before the usual "One camps, one hunts" or "killers hunt together" complains get started. From experience of playing this gamemode: these strategies suck. 1 focused survivor leaves 7 survivors free reign to dominate the match. There also is an camping discouragement in the rules, even if only on the first hook, for each survivor.
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Considering how most of these changes are a Survivor buff, it pretty much confirms my expectations regarding such a mode in terms of balance.
Having a 3rd health state would indeed make 2v1ing Survivors disproportionately less effective, so the strategy not working makes sense given that rule set.
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