Survivor are in need a major nerf/rework.
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I think one problem with balancing the game is how long it takes to get good perks for both survivor and killer. If you are against either killer or survivors with a full set of perks and only have one or two yourself, you are basically screwed. There are also so many useless perks and with perks being individual to each character, it just means a ton of grinding before you can reach a state of possibly having a fair game.
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I'd be happy with more gen speed nerf, BT only working once per match, BT + DS not working after gates are powered, Ruin buff, only one character being used in the match at one time, the ability to change items in the countdown screen, keys nerf, flashlight spam gone, t-bagging gone.
That's just a few off the top of my head
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No.
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The same could be said if SWFs played killer.
Out of the whole thread the only thing I would change for certain is DS. Everyone runs it past a certain point. Even if you don't tunnel you still have to deal with it. I can hook someone, leave, hook someone else, the first person I hooked makes a save, I down them and they still have DS. I would at least make it so if the killer hooked someone else your DS deactivates. Or at least cut it down to 30 seconds.
Picture this scenario. It's not rare because it happens to me quite often.
You hook survivor A.
You Leave.
Find, down, hook survivor B
During that chase someone saved survivor A.
As you hook survivor B, survivor A unhooks right in front of you.
Survivor B probably has BT+DS so you go after survivor A.
Survivor A is downed and they still have DS -.-
In that situation I'm screwed no matter who I go after. I didn't tunnel A because they came to me. I can't just leave both of them alone, that would be counter productive. If I slug, survivor A probably has unbreakable and wasted my time. All while this is going on, survivors C+D are doing gens.
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This post I-
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I'm not about to read a wall of text. But this reply sums up my response pretty well I think:
If killer is so terrible to play, try playing something else ..?
A 4K shouldn't be handed to killers every single game. You win some, you lose some. That applies to both sides.
As much as you may hate to hear this, but survivors kind of NEED "2nd chance perks". If survivors have no chance and only die within 20/30s of every single chase, then people will quit playing survivor, meaning your queues will be A LOT longer, meaning the game will eventually die.
Survivors need a chance. It's needed, for balance, and for the game to remain alive.
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Bt only works if you let it work. Having it be one time use would put it at No mither Level its fine where its at. For the one character that's stupid let people play who they want to play they payed for the game just like you let it be. Ya cant Nerf t-bagging jut like you can't nerf killer nodding while your hooked. Once again if keys are needed moris should be to Cant change one thing that cuts an objective and not do the same to the other side. Flashlight spam is not always bm, mostly its for getting someones attention (mainly what i do).the only thing that would provide anything for the games health is more gen time.
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You can't be serious with this thread...
- Toolbox nerf basically made toolboxes worthless for gens except for specific situations.
- Gen repair nerf slowed down base gen speed.
- Maps were made smaller.
- God windows got removed.
How many handouts do you need to finally get a 4k?
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Had 2 games tonight in re-worked maps. Got 7K/8, 1 escape through hatch
Small map alone buff alot on my Trapper. less time to travel picking up traps, less space to lay traps make traps formation more dense. trapped Survivors harder to escape because of small map -> easier to catch up. Played without tunneling (always chase unhooker).
Guess I dont play enough games to make a summary.
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''Toolbox nerf basically made toolboxes worthless for gens except for specific situations.''
BNP still exist and still is strong, gens are done at the incredible space of 80 second if we assume the survivor don't hit a single great skill check and use no toolbox and work alone on a gen. I don't even see why survivor would need any kind of gen repair speed boost at all... + toolbox are good for sabotage.
''Gen repair nerf slowed down base gen speed.''
No it did'nt. the only differance now is that survivor do gen slower if they do them in the worst way possible (4 people working on a gen) The only thing the nerf has done is that it made it impossible for four people working on a gen to complete it by the time killer walk to them if the killer happend check that gen at the end of their first patrol. Gen are still as fast if all survivor work on differant gens, and you should do that if you want to reduce the killer pressure. If anything it made it harder for killer to punish survivor cause now they wont all work on the same gens unless they are brain dead. so an easy to punish situation should'nt happend anymore.
''Maps were made smaller.''
This one isin't a fat killer buff too. it just made it so killer who"s power rell on small map aren't extremly weaker on bigger map. smaller map also mean vault and pallet are closer to each other. Deadzone usually are near map edge or near generator, in angle survivor should'nt be running into since the killer can't force them at all into these directions. Every single pallet is a safe one now. And in a certain map due to it being smaller and loop being closer, you can have a jungle gym close to junk piles with pallet right next to the killer shacks, that arguably the safest non god loop the game ever had. Smaller map is a buff for both side if anything.
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Except the survivor team don't need to survive to win and pip, the killer need a minimum of 3k to win and pip since anything below that require extremly long game that don't happend because well, the game wont last long if survivor don't die. Survivor perk make it arguably to easy to survive by giving lots of second chance (when killer option usually revolve around punishing survivor mistake) or by having perk that let you do thing that would require 2 survivor insted of one (unbreakable let you pick yourself up for example, that require another survivor to help you normally). The only tool survivor should need to survive is their teamate, if you keept them in a team, but they don't have the weakness of working as a team it make it way harder for the killer to do anything. Some would say ''But what about if my team play badly'' Well guess what, you play the side of the game that are in a team, you should lose if your team do badly. you should'nt have the best of both world by being in a team, but having a kit strong enought you make you feel like you can win by yourself.
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"BNP still exist and still is strong"
Sorry but LMFAO
"The only thing the nerf has done is that it made it impossible for four people working on a gen to complete it by the time killer walk to them if the killer happend check that gen at the end of their first patrol."
Which is a huge deal. When 3 or 4 of you are on a gen and the killer interrupts you, they can get a free hit on 3 survivors usually and they know there are no other gens to worry about. Catch 1 of them, hook them near that gen, kick it, now watch as they all throw themselves at either the hook or the gen, over committing and giving you free hits/hooks.
"This one isin't a fat killer buff too."
Yes it is don't lie. It's a massive killer buff to shrink those maps. I played a game on Rotten Fields as Huntress last night, pretty much every down I was able to carry to the basement, which I then camped and forced unsafe rescues for more basement hooks.
They literally gutted a LOT of survivor advantages and you are sitting here asking for more. If you are still having problems catching survivors and getting kills, maybe you aren't as good at killer as you think you are.
I played about 10 games last night as Huntress and Legion (and 1 as Spirit with a mori for a daily which I didn't even use until the game was over). EVERY SINGLE GAME WAS A 4K (red ranks BTW). Except 2, one game I gave a Laurie hatch because she was funny, and another game as Huntress on Haddonfield I took the 3k and let the Feng hatch because I wanted to end the game and go to bed (they did 0 gens BTW, I snowballed very hard at the start and slugged a lot after 2 hooks, they couldn't recover from it).
Playing killer is easier than ever.
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Mori's- I wont disagree mori anre boring but they also are useless. using any thing above a green mori is like camping, you will easy 3-4k but will depip so it not relly a win. Yellow mori is near useless, I mean if the killer has downed you and your the last survivors you would have died on hook anyway. Green one only work once and is to much rare of a ressources for killer to bring one every game in case they want to use it. Over all im okay for mori and keys to be removed.
Noed- and Devour Hope. Yea these perk are strong, you know what stronger? Doing bones. if your team did not take the time to do them or if they refused to take one of their 16 perk slot to take Detective hunch, they deserve to eat the consequences of any Hex perk. Hex perk are as strong as survivor let them be.
BBQ- Lol? if it relly a problem for you, you can simply hide a locker when you see the killer hook someone, it not like survivor have basekit map wide aura reading on killer when he carry someone right?
Nurse calling- it your fault for healing in bad moment. if you know the killer is not that far, maybe you should'nt be healing in the first place.
One Hit killer- All have build-up/Charge time. If you let a myer/ghost face stalk you, you deserve to be punished. if you don't use cover agains a billy/bubba when he charging, you deserve to go down.
billy running from a side of the map to the other- It not like he any discret doing it and you see him and hear him zoom around. Also map dependent.
Perk to make killer move faster- Ah yes, the very op perk everyone use and that have no dowside whatsoever or no buildup? I think the best perk of that kind give you like a max of 4 or 5% extra speed, if that to much for you then idk what to say.
Perk that take away terror radius- If you relly on terror radius to detect killer your doing something wrong. use your eyes, not only they are more usefull and you can profite of survivor owl vision, you can also counter stealth killer.
tombstone- Myer is slowed down and take more time charging evil within 3. The only way to make it relly unfair is when you combine it with tuff of hair. and if a killer spend 2 pink addon, I think he kinda deserve to be broken for that single game.
Bloodlust- a good way to give killer a chance to catch survivors. I don't think a single survivor looping a killer for more then a gen is good for the game.
Mirror- if you get beat down by t1 myer with 105% speed it your problem. you just seem to hate myer and forget all his addon weakness, there could be a debate around tombstone being strong but mirror are for meme build.
Iri head- I just think that it should'nt be possible to go over 1 hatchet with it, otherwise it fine.
Teleporting killer- It your own fault if you trigger hag trap or if you don't run when gens start bleeding.
Breakable wall- Breaking some wall can create infinite lmao ######### you complaining about.
Smaller map that will be better for killer- It a nice buff to killer who need small map for their power like legion and set-up killer. the smaller map also made loop closer to each other and ive seen crazy thing like jungle gym with a junk pile+pallet nearby with the shack being next to these 2 loops. It only a single map but I think you get the idea, there is less dead zone between loops and these dead zone are often in corner you can simply avoid to run to.
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''Which is a huge deal. When 3 or 4 of you are on a gen and the killer interrupts you, they can get a free hit on 3 survivors usually and they know there are no other gens to worry about. Catch 1 of them, hook them near that gen, kick it, now watch as they all throw themselves at either the hook or the gen, over committing and giving you free hits/hooks.''
So it a nerf to survivor who played in a bad way and din,t use the fact they could apply pressure in 4 differant places? If anything that let them know how to acctualy play...
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lol you're responding like you think these perks are actually a problem for me. like i said, i dont have an issue with any of them except the ebony and iri head. I was just using these as an example that killers also have perks that can be an advantage.
i don't care if the killer has any of these perks, add ons, abilities, i know how to counter them if i need to and most of the time i just deal with any consequences if need be. my point is that you are picking on survivor perks when killers also have perks that help them eg aura reading, speed, 1 hit, teleporting which is an advantage especially with freddy who's hit box is so ridiculous its not even funny. yes you can say but its the survivors fault if they don't cleanse bones or if they heal within range of the killer etc..etc... but that goes the same for the perks you have a problem with. DS, BT, unbreakable and the many perks that are situational.
if you are going to say that its the survivors fault if a killer perk isn't countered then the same thinking should go for killers. most of the time its the killers fault if they get hit with BT, DS, unbreakable and i could go on. it's not all one sided.
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Imagine thinking nerfing Self-Care would help killers. LMAO. It's well known that as it is right now, it is great for killers if survivors run it.
Sorry, but this entire post is a meme. I hope it's satire.
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This post isn't even worth my breath.
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Ngl, that last line rings true for my experience since this patch as killer, also in red ranks. Apart from the game as Huntress (where I still 3k'd with the escapee on death hook) I played for the challenge, since I don't play her so haven't learnt the arc, timing, and also have issues discerning the centre of my screen as her, they were all such easy games.
There are definitely a couple of maps that are too killer sided as a result of these changes, but that's it. Haven't played all maps yet so can't say if there are any that are still horrendous for killer, tbh. Probably Haddonfield, lol.
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Actually, that's usually a common occurrence at high ranks when an important (usually a part of the 3 gen or the final one) gen is past half and someone is in chase; survivors commit, even giving up a hook state for it. It's pretty much the height of efficiency.
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If they split up you can easily finish a chase before a gen pops.
The moral of the story is that if you struggle for a 4k after 3.7 you are not a good killer.
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"Some would say ''But what about if my team play badly'' Well guess what, you play the side of the game that are in a team, you should lose if your team do badly."
Ok fair enough. But...if that is to be true then...
Guess what, you chose the side of the game that involves high pressure and have rely on your own skill. You should lose if you play badly.
Your ideas, whether you believe they are bad or good, would drive away about 80% of the survivor player base.
You want to nerf any perks that allow survivors to counter tunelling, slugging or camping.
You want to nerf healing that has already been nerfed.
You want ONLY buffs to killer perks to combat the survivors main objectives while taking away their perks for countering yours.
You want BASE KIT GEN SLOW DOWN, quite possibly your most ridiculous suggestion
You want survivors to die on second hook
You want to take away a survivor perk slot.
Are you seriously going to sit there with a straight face and say ANY survivor would stick around after one or more of these ludicrous ideas? Because I'm fairly sure they'd go ahead and give BHVR the middle finger. If you are serious about balance, then go back to your drawing board and look for serious balanced suggestions, not just more ways to stick it to survivors because you are struggling.
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if you think survs need another nerf youre ######### at the game and before you say im a survivor main i actually play both i can play killer with no perks no addons and no offerings and still get a 4k with 2 gens done no struggle playing killer is a joke now i use to have to try but now i dont survivor got a huge nerf with less pallets less loops and more/bigger dead zones its ######### killers like you that keep getting the survs more and more nerfed and make killer side less and less fun this is why the games so unbalanced
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''Your ideas, whether you believe they are bad or good, would drive away about 80% of the survivor player base.''
That why prior to the patch survivor had way longuer queu time then killer who only had to wait around max 30 seconds.
It only seem that survivor care about player base going down when it about survivor.
There many reason why people go away from killer gameplay, I honestly think that for the killer to make a hudge comeback, they need to abuse potatoes survivor to make a mistake, and god forbid they have second chance perk. Let me set an exemple. Survivor A is on hook and have DS+unbreakable, Survivor B has BT. You've just hooked survivor A and head to a nearby gens and find survivor B. Survivor B start to run to the hook, you hit once, because of the speed boost survivor get after being hit, survivor B has just enought time to unhook survivor A, so you hit survivor B to avoid triggering BT, But survivor A got unhooked in a situation that is far from being safe, at this point there a couple option.
Option 1, Killer let survivor A go and don't get to profit as much as he should out of Survivor B mistake.
Option 2. Killer is big dumb and hit Survivor A b4 BT end. I don't have to much problem with this situation.
Option 3: Killer down survivor A and try to pick him up, get struckt by DS
Option 4: Killer decide to not pick survivor A up and hook survivor B, he decide to proxy camp to protect the hook and slug, but at the time she want, survivor A can use unbreakable and start a new chase.
All these option give more time to survivor and the best killer could do was option 4. But let be honest for a second. Survivor B did a relly bad play by doing the most unsafe un-hook ever and his team should'nt get any advantage out of this. the killer did'nt camp, the killer did'nt tunnel. The killer simply downer 2 survivor cause he could, and the only reason he gone after survivor A is because Survivor B did this bad play. Can we agree that, in this situation the killer should'nt have to go around doing slug and chase? Can we just agree that killer should just be able to down survivor A if he catch him and hook him whitout any issue, then go back and hook survivor B? How is it fun or healthy for the killer too play around perk that should'nt reward the survivor for a horrible play?
My point is that when survivor does those kind of play, unless option 2 happend, survivor should'nt get any kind of advantage of gain from these kind of situation. im not saying these option don't favor the killer, in all case he can hook survivor B, but survivor should'nt get rewarded at all. If survivor wanted to have a good option scenario for them, survivor B should just have run to a nearby loop and distract the killer away from the loop, giving time for Survivor C or D to rescue A. See how much it would make the game fun if survivor played like that? killer would have no reason to stay near hook and deal with perk that reward stupid play, insted they get to chase and feel like they progressing their objectif. Survivor don't have to deal with the killer proxy camping the hook.
''But what if the killer camp''
Survivor should just do gens. Killer lose. See, the killer don't have a perk that slow down/regress in a case survivor don't go for the save, It would be stupid if that kind of perk existed. It does suck for the camped survivor and I think they should get auto safe pipe or some extra point to prevent them de-piping in a senario where they could'nt do any thing.
''But what if the camper use NOED, don't he get rewarded with a second hook for no reason''
That up to you to do bones, it not like killer will stop you, you got 120 second to do so. probability are that the killer suck at chasing and wont be able to hook before a couple of gens done. Unless survivor does something bad, a generator should be done before or not long after first hook, and that assuming the killer is slighly good at loop. and again, camper camp cause they bad at loop or cause they are frustated after being looped for 4 gens by someone better. in those 2 case you should have time to clear any kind of hex. That being said, if survivor had less second chance perk I would'nt mind NOED to be reworked or nerfed. I still think survivor should be doing bones at all time since it remove any hex perk the killer has, and it not like it take lots of time to deal with those.
''But what if we face a god looper camper''
the ranking system make it near impossible for camper to pip so you should'nt see killer like those out of low rank. Sadly DBD ranking system suck, in case this happend, you just are forced to take the lose. If you think that unfair, you can tell yourself killer can face tryhard rank 1 SWF as soon as rank 15. and by rank 13, you will see more purple/red rank than green or yellow one. The only think we can blame for both our case is the crap matchmaking system.
The other reason I think people don't like playing killer is due simply on how the game work. Killer is at his strongest when 1 survivor is alive and survivor are are their strongest when there 4 people alive. It may sound like a great design but it has a major flaw.
survivor start at their strongest and can only go downs by their own mistake, and yes getting bait by a killer is a survivor mistake.
So when killer arrive at 2k, Yea he feel powerfull and he in advantage, but does it relly matter? What the point of being extremly strong if you have basicly win, and the only reason was cause survivor did a good ammount of mistake? you are at the top of your capacity at a moment when you don't need anything to finish the game. either you can easily 3k or 4k, or you did your last hook when survivor openend door so you being strong don't relly matter anymore. The only way for Killer to have an early advatage and feel powerfull when it matter is to bring a Mori or tombstone, And we can both agree this isin't healthy gameplay either to bring those things.
on a last note, it way more easy to pip as survivor than it is for killer, A survivor can do a single gens, some bones and open chest, maybe escape maybe not and still pip easily. the game tell them they did great. Killer are forced to get 3k for a single pip. The emblem system reward killer for long game, and punish them for short game. The issue being that even if all survivor leave while injured and their all on their last hook, the game consider you did poorly and tell you so. You wont pip on 1k or 2k because if you only have that ammount of kill, the game must be relly long for you to pip, and let be honest, if you did 1-2k you probalby had 0-1k and got one during endgame collapse. What if you kill 4 person cause they are crap relly early? probably a safe pip cause game was too short.
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I doubt you play over rank 16 on both side tbh. Map size change is a buff for both side, bigger for killer simply because now your power wont be useless on certain maps. You know that map being smaller make it so pallet are closer to each others right? because of that there a certain map that can spawn the safest non god loops the game ever had. A jungle gym next to killer shack with 1 junk piles next to them. this can only happend in 1 map, maybe 2 but you can't call that a survivor ''hudge nerf''. Every pallets that remains are safe pallet and loops that got removed were god loops and these should never have existed in the first place. More and bigger dead zone? The one I see in game are next to generators tiles or generator spawn on small one. there maybe like 2 maps that have deadzone the survivor can't relly avoid if killer come from certain angle. For all other deadzone, it the survivor fault for running into them when they had better tiles option.
Also if you can ez do 4k with no addons with only 2 gens done. and considering that, unless survivors are extemly stupid or play like rank 20 first game player, the first Gen should be done and the bare minimum of 1 should be at minimum 35% being completed. You could be the top 1 player NA it dosen't matter it up to survivor to do that first gens and unless they do something extremly wrong there no way you can put pressure on that much gens whit not knowledge at all of where survivor spawn or are at all time. that just how the game is, first gen is ez to complete there no going around that. That being said, if survivor can't do more than another gen and you 3k them at worsk with no perk or addon my bet are that you are either a camper or playing in extremly low ranks.
That or your a god as freddy.
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Jesus ######### christ this is the most horrible thing i have ever heard. You were saying surrvivor A should be punished for surrvivor B's mistake when they have no choice in what happens. All of the so called "solutions" of yours are horrible. Surrvivors dieing on second would only increase tunneling and camping. Wich on that topic is why we have bt and ds if you dont like them Then ######### off and leave the hook. Also you said in this ceartin post these exact words " Survivor got meta perks to counter any killer playstyle, yet they still find a way to complain" and yet here you are wanting to nerf everything we have to counter it. Not to mention you wanna nerf self care wich has already been gutted and you just wanna shive it to hell. As self care is right now its way more of an advantage to killers if a surrvivor is running it. No matter how you say your not entitled the post's you've made show a biased and entitled person with no regard for the otherside. And you can send all the death threats and hate that you want but that wolnt change anything. See ya.
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Where has a killer said this?
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''You were saying surrvivor A should be punished for surrvivor B's mistake when they have no choice in what happens.''
Yea, that how a team should be working. Survivor strenght is that they are in a team. They should rely on each other if a survivor does a good play, the whole team is rewarded, if he does a bad play, his whole team is punished in some way or other. Just getting caught and being put on a hook mean your time temporaly got 1 less member to do anything.
You can't have the best of both world where survivor profit of each other good play, but when they do stupid thing or mistake, only one person get punished while said person wilingly made a move that was risky for his treamates.
it the other way for killer, they are alone, on one side a teamate can't help or handicap you. If you miss a hit when a survivor does a 360 aroud you, it your fault and no one else. on the other hand you got a better base kit than 1 survivor. your faster, got a power and can hurt people.
Killer don't get to put up a perk that let them bring another killer in the game, cause guess what? killer can't have both world either, they can't go in game and be like ''I want to be stronger than a survivor, but I don't want to play alone''
You play on the side that have a team, so you should be forced to live with all the hight and down that come with it.
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The last part is called sarcasm.. Survivors literally just got a major nerf to them and within less than 24 hours, Killers are already crying for More and More nerfs.
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Im actually rank 6 survivor and rank 10 killer and i think god loops being gone is a good thing but big dead zones and other ######### i dont think was good for the update and you saying survivors need a bigger nerf is just ridiculous
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I think you are playing a little bit too much killer buddy, even too much DBD for your own good, you are in a major need of a long (maybe permanent) break from this game
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