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Hot Take: Deadzones are not good for the game
Title pretty much sums it. Replacing strong loops with nothingness and getting hit for it just feels bad as you lost to RNG and me downing someone because they got unlucky just makes me feel a bit bad
Comments
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Honestly think we need more unsafe pallets, those tend to actually be fun.
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Deadzones really shouldn't spawn generators, imo. It would be better if they didn't spawn in the first place, but the fact that they spawn gens is insulting.
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I don't understand what you want here. Just a map full of nothing but loops where the gens are in loops and the loops are in loops and you don't have to worry about where you are at any time because it's always a loop?
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Excellent rebuttal, you must be proud of yourself not addressing anything at all. Congrats
More unsafe/mindgame-able loops, not tiles of pure nothingness
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"If only there was a perk that could let you heal at any time and be able to tank a hit and get free burst of speed.
Or a perk that give you a free head start in a chase to help you reach a safer area.
Or, you know, actually planning routes instead of blindly holding W and crying at the devs when that doesnt work.
:)"
These are not solutions to bad map design
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Well think of it this way. If "deadzones" were removed, then what could replace it? Because if you instead want a useful tile then the whole map is full of useful resources. Good loopers could both run killers for way longer with more tiles to get too, and you wouldn't have to pay attention to your position as much. I'm trying to be as understandinh as possible but if a killer breaks 9 pallets to create a deadzone, you shouldn't really ask for anything more. You ran the killer and didn't pay attention.
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Ignoring any silly bias @Nurgling7 may have. Neither you, nor the OP, have been the bigger person and explained how he is wrong.
So, I will give my own opinions on the matter.
First off, Healing using Self-care is a waste of time in most, if not all, situations and Inner strength has the handicap of needing totems. With both, you are almost never guaranteed to be healthy at the start of a second chase. Not only that, but being hit because you're traveling through a deadzone, is one of the reasons many are complaining, it is still an undeserved hit.
Sprint Burst however, makes sense. If you are out of position, then you can sprint almost safely back to an area you can loop. However, that requires your third option. Planning a route beforehand, but because this is required to make proper use of Sprint burst, I feel that negates it's viability. The deadzones on the changed maps, drastically limit the options someone has, in what I feel is an unfair way; for newer players in particular. Due to the RNG nature of maps, you will almost certainly find yourself travelling to what was a few basic loops, only to find nothingness and end up giving an almost free down.
Now, while as a killer main I enjoy areas with nothing to them. I would actually find it more enjoyable, and fair, if they were replaced with unsafe pallets or windows instead. Give the players the option for true counter play, no matter which side they're on. (If you're going to randomly edit, at least fix the grammar.)
Post edited by AlbinoViera on5 -
I think one of the bigger problems with deadzones is they are both loop deadzones AND stealth deadzones at the same time. Autohaven has a bunch of tiles that's just like 5 pencil thin trees. They don't necessarily need to add a pallet to these tiles, just more trees/rocks/whatever so that you could at least hide better on them. Regardless of what a lot of people say stealth IS a viable option to waste the killer's time.
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Because those all take brainpower, and survivors want to be able to just hold m1 on a gen and run around the same window all game. It's why Survivors hate Doctor and Freddy so much, they actually take strategy to go against
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O please no. I just ran through Temple of Purgation, and there almost two dozen pallets on that map. Felt like every possible loop had a pallet. Survivors can simply drop one pallet and make it to another before I can either break, or circle around.
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because you can actually catch survivors there, despite the fact you are an unskilled player?
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Because they are better than deadzones and easier to fit in a map without overloading it with super safe pallets. You sound very insecure, try not to project them on others so much.
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and yet freddy can mindlessly spam snares without any risk
but do go on about "strategy" lmao
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being "bEtTer ThAn DeaDzOnE" doesnt mean anything. its a fact that unskilled killers can catch skilled survivors there, and its a fact that skilled killers cant catch unskilled survivors in super safe pallets, but they can at least make them drop quickly. i think there shouldnt be pallet that are extremely unsafe (Hawkins pallets for example), but up to moderately unsafe (a good player can last a good amount of time there), because it feels very unrewarding to be hit there as survivor, and there is nothing you can do about it, no matter how good you are. In the same way, there shoulkdnt be map full of super safe pallets, because iot feels very unrewarding as killer. i think it should be a mix of strong tiles and moderately unsafe tiles
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I found people that already have a route to avoid deadzones so...
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MORE DEAD ZONES LESS PALLETS
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its a fact that unskilled killers can catch skilled survivors there
No, it's not. You can't even make it a fact before defining what a "skilled" killer/survivor means. Skilled in what? How do you measure that?
I agree with OP that unsafe pallets in deadzones would be cool. The result is almost the same, if a survivor gets there, he would take a hit. At least he could waste some extra seconds in chase playing some mindgames.
I think experienced players doesn't care about deadzones that much tho, windows are infinite resources for chases.
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By that logic, iron will is a “counter” to spirit, despite not knowing what killer is picked and what perks they have and instead relying on luck. Saying, “just don’t be in a dead zone 4head” is literally the joke response to most issues in this game.
If a survivor starts being chased and is in a dead zone, they are getting hit, no if, ands, or buts. I’m not a fan of maps like Ormond where 7 tiles can be connected, but having serveral tiles of trees and nothing to use at all is not good design, it just lowers the skill ceiling even more and leaves a feeling of losing due to map RNG, rather than the killer’s skill.
btw I play both at rank 1, though nowadays that is more so the standard.
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What dead zones? survivors always seem to make the next pallet.
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Having some dead zones is okay, but one or two maps are a little bit much now. Thompson House can be awful and barren and it’s not a matter of “just don’t get caught in a dead zone” when so many of the generators are in dead zones. You can’t use optimal pathing or planning ahead, either you have Sprint Burst or you get hit.
A little something would be nice. Some rocks and trees for cover or to try and loop around to buy yourself even a few seconds, a couple of Z walls even so people can use Lithe to get away. And I honestly think some maps need more line of sight blockers. At least give me the option of trying to confuse the killer with my escape route if I don’t have any pallets. It’s more fun to try that than just “hold W in an open field”.
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I'm a survivor main but I also played killer at rank 1, so my view on the game is quite balanced.
I only came back to playing DBD after not playing since mid March. The map changes were needed, as there were certain god loops that shouldn't have been in the game. It doesn't take skill to loop to be able to loop the old god loops. It made certain maps incredibly frustrating as killer.
One of the most important things to learn as survivor is being able to plan your chase route. So if the killer spots you, you already know where you're going to run to. If you end in a dead zone, unless the dead zone was created due to pallet wastage then it's your mistake for ending up in that dead zone.
I am aware of the glitch where pallets don't spawn.
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Yeah they are. Even as Survivor if I make right reads and the Killer has to break this unsafe pallet because of my series of right reads.
There is nothing more satisfying.
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I don't get it... don't survivors have 360 at their disposal.... that bullshit has saved me so many times in dead zones its not even funny. Or are they just lazy...
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Bad Streamer choice my friend, he complains about toxic and scummy survivor tactics all the time
You're wrong about 360, I still use it and it works 80% of the time. They miss and I get away and most of the time they lose me. Works good with lightweight.
Dont pretend like survivors don't have a way to juke in deadzones. We have plenty of perks to get out of deadzone situations.
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...for Killers, maybe. LUL
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'Infinite' is a bit strong in relation to using windows in chases.
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There were always dead zones in certain maps. It was always a risk to repair a gen in that certain area. Also i don't feel like there are any big changes about the pallets tbh, sometimes some maps had 1 pallet in the middle while another time there were like 4 of them. It was always this way and i personally haven't really noticed any big differences in dead zones than before. I really start thinking that people only notice this now because they can't use the same window over and over again and actually have to look for alternative routes.
As for op, i agree that dead zones are sometimes frustrating and annoying but if there aren't multipile dead zones in a map, then i personally think it's not a big problem.
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If only Killers knew what they were talking about before they spewed utter nonsense..
Adrenaline only activates IF the final gen is done. How does this help you in a dead zone?
Sprint Burst immediately activates when you start running. How does this help you if you're already exhausted or are in a safe tile and the killer forces you out of it into a dead zone?
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Im also rank 1 both sides, tbh rank is meaningless
This isn't a discussion about avoiding deadzones, its about replacing them with more unsafe loops. Thompson House for instance, before it had multiple safe loops connected and felt unfair for killer, now it has about 2 safe loops connected then nothingness for several tiles where you are going to get hit. Instead of balancing the map, the scales are being forced to the other direction.
360s are a gimmick lmao
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We all love RNG
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Stealthing midchase ain't working against killer with eyes and ears lol or generally in red ranks. Works well at rank 20
Post edited by DwightOP on2 -
There were deadzones, but not to the extent I am seeing them now. I just played a game on coal tower where an entire back corner was literally just trees, no brick walls at all, and the closest things nearby were a few very mediocre throw-and-go pallets and the now mediocre building.
Without sprint burst you are absolutely screwed if the killer finds you there (and only blendette could try to use those trees to hide). It's probably why I am seeing like 3+ sprint burst a game now where I would normally see 3+ dead hards.
I think a good billy would be super hard to deal with on some of these new maps if he wasn't so bugged right now.
Though, to be fair, some maps are still pallet town. Springwood and blood lodge seemed just as bad as ever. But other maps are just sprint burst, urban evasion, blendette, or get out.
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That definitely sounds like bad rng. But tbh i don't really see any big differnce than before. I also had some matches before the patch, where one side of azarov's had only 2 pallets (one was shack) or the swamp with 0 pallets in the middle. That's why i personally haven't seen any big differnces to the rng before the patch. Some players also said they had 0 pallets in the middle on bloodlodge, while i had 5+ yesterday. That's why it's hard to say if some people are overreacting or if there really was a change.
Yeah, i agree that dead zones may screw you over but that's the purpose of them. You always take a risk if you're working there. If there isn't more than one or mabye 2 small ones on a big map i personally think that's fine. I also don't mind if there aren't any dead zones.
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I would agree with you if I actually got these deadzones people are complaining about. Most maps I see have more pallets packed more closely together than they ever did before, and they're ALL safe. Imagine Hawkins, but with safe pallets. That's how a lot of my matches have been, both as Survivor and Killer.
So whatever, I guess.
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Wake up. Freddy is a basic M1 Killer if you wake up, plus his teleport cooldown is way longer
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Same thing as I told the other person. Wake up. Freddy is a basic M1 Killer if you wake up, plus his teleport cooldown is way longer
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I haven't seen it. I have noticed the tiles being way more spaced out, as well as maps that would typically have 4-5 jungle gyms now having 1-2. Most of the jungle gyms have been replaced with pure window tiles or throw-and-go pallets. There are big deadzones that can spawn in as well, where-as before I would see deadzones but there would usually be some pretty safe areas to balance them out. Now you get neither.
There is significantly less to loop with most maps. Most of my long chases since 3.7 are some obscene amounts of outplay at the shack, where-as before I had some games where i'd literally run a noob bubba for 5 gens across fractured cowshed or something.
And what about when you fall asleep mid-chase? Or how the game purposely spawns the wake-up box across the map from you, and you have to go to it like once a minute?
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If only there was a perk that would let you run really fast to get out of deadzones, or a perk that let you see the auras of windows and pallets so you always know where to go, or a way to heal ourselves so we can take a hit and sprint to safety. The game really needs something like that to counter deadzones.
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If you fall alseep mid-chase, don't greed your pallets, just drop it and run to break LOS ASAP. And the fact that you have to cross the map is so that you don't just wake up on the gen like old freddy. Assuming Freddy doesn't pop the gen you were on(and he likely won't because Thrilling will block the generator you were working since you left to wake up), the generator will have the same level of progress as when you left it.
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Really... because I do it regularly.
You have to do it when there is opportunity. Run behind an object, make it look like you are going straight, backtrack, start walking/crouching, keep LOS broken. It's difficult but it can be done. It almost always depends on having enough objects to block LOS and enough places to move once LOS is broken.
I did it to a rank 2 Deathslinger the other day. He chased me to a deadzone on MacMil (there were large rocks and tress for stealthing however). Ran behind the objects, then walked back the other way. He thought I kept going and tried to cut me off, saw I wasn't there and circled around where he last saw me. By this time I had walked to the next tile and was hiding behind a broken loop (the ones with the boxes, pallet was gone). Being a 110 killer I know he doesn't have the time to look for me and it would have taken him a while to scour the area. He was smart and just gave up and left. Again entirely do-able against any level killer, it's just going to be a LOT harder against good killers, and is dependent on the objects around you. Point is that, stealth isn't even an option on these Autohaven deadzone.
Also I'm talking more about before the chase even starts. On this tile for Autohaven, for example the killer can see you and react to you from a full 2 tiles away. It means no matter what direction you go he will gain distance on you. If there was more cover he would need to get close to see where you go, giving you a chance to hide or start moving away before they realize where you went so you can get some distance towards a safer area.
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Yeah, everybody should just run the same perks. We will call it a "meta build" and the killers shall all rejoice! Or wait... I think they're complaining because a survivor sprint bursted out of the dead zone. Oh no, hold on, they sprinted into *another* dead zone because those are just back to back to back now. Hell yeah, killers rejoice again in the simplicity of a... fun game?
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It's kinda rare to get a 360 in high ranks lol. But okay.
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Hot take: most survivors suck at the game. I prefer playing killer and still do very well with survivor every month. In fact, I might even be escaping more since the last patch.
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thats your opinion I guess. R1 and I nail it quite often on console. But okay.
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It's way easier to 360 on console. One because it's easier to 360 as survivor on a controller, two because it's harder to do a 180 swing as a killer on a controller, and three because the FPS on console is so bad that the killer will have a much harder time tracking you. The bad FPS is why things like boil over actually work on the console sometimes.
I mainly 360 hatchets on PC at red ranks, rarely is the killer bad enough to get spun with a melee character because they all 180 after you.
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My point still stands. On console dead zones are not that effective. 360 works cause of the poor tracking. Its actually easier to do it with mouse and keyboard but ok.
I only agree with your fps logic.
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I don't think so, I usually play survivor on PC with an xbox controller and killer with mouse and keyboard. To 360 with a mouse and keyboard you need to hit WSAD in the right order as well as flick the mouse. Controller you just hold both sticks down and it 360's for you. It also comes out perfect with the controller every time, mouse and keyboard you can mess it up easier.
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You probably verse potatoes as Blendette then. I never lost a survivor midchase as killer and I only pulled out a stealth juke against a killer midchase when I knew he is bad.
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You can lose good killers in a chase but need your entire build dedicated to it. Lithe + Quick / Quiet + Dance With Me + Iron Will is the only way I know to actually lose a good killer mid-chase. And you only really get one shot to do it per chase.
Quick and quiet + head on + iron will + inner strength with a beefy flashlight can occasionally help you break chase as well. You blind them at a pallet, quick and quiet into a locker and then head on them if they figure it out. If they don't figure it out fast enough, you heal mid-chase with inner strength. Maybe in theory lightweight could help to hide the scratch marks into the locker a bit faster but I prefer the chance to full heal. It's not nearly as reliable as the first build though, more for fun.
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I play Kate with bright pink so....
Also this guy was not a potato. He was actually pretty smart and a good Deathslinger (though extremely toxic because of the messages he sent me after the game). He got the 4k at the end of the game.
I'm sure you've lost survivors mid chase. We all have don't lie. I've seen great killers like Scott and Zubat lose survivors mid chase too. It's rare but it happens. Guess you must just be a One Above God tier killer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You don't need an entire build dedicated to it actually. Just Iron Will is usually enough to lose a killer. It's all about the situation and baiting the killer to try and cut you off then making smart moves and walking away from the tile while they search for you. One big reason stealth doesn't work for some is because they stay on the tile and eventually get found again. You want to leave the tile the first chance you get, and the killer thinks you are still there when you are no where nearby.
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