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Does either side know how to consider the other?
Seriously, this community has a huge issue plaguing it and that is that nobody takes a step back to think about the other side at all.
Killer mains these days are "ooga booga me want 4k"
and survivors are "ooga booga me need escape"
I understand that each side wants better enjoyment from the game, and also some of the issue about wanting 4k/escape could arise from bad rewarding system from good, not great, gameplay. But does anybody try to consider both sides when making an argument in this community?
It's all defense and no actual consideration about the other's arguments, it's an instant shut down on one's side and the other returns it. Is it that hard to try and see eye to eye about issues in this game?
Comments
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That's why I always encourage people to play both sides. Feel how each one is and then understand why people feel that way.
I don't look for a win. I look for fun. Once I've achieved that in a match, I don't care if I escape/ get a 4k.
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In this community?
Yes. Yes it is.
As I said in another thread, this community is as polarized as US Politics. It's hard for both sides to see eye to eye because they only ever see their side and never consider what it's like to play the other side.
I've had some conversations both here and other avenues that talks about DBD where I just facepalmed hard because of how certain people are. It seems like it's easier to just shut down the other side when you have no arguments and can only scream, scream, scream.
Just remember though.
The loudest people tend to be the least brightest.
Always look for opportunities to talk with people who has a level of understanding.
Ignore those who only wants to push their own agenda that would ruin the game.
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I play both sides at rank 1.
Killers are justified when they complain because optimal survivors are stronger than most killer setups.
Survivors are justified when they complain about garbage teammates.
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Sometimes, but mostly it's just memes and insults. Neither cares about the other and that is really detrimental to community health.
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Thank you! This is a severely underrated stance. Nobody seems to want this game to develop in the direction of fun, but rather the direction of absolutely demolishing the opposing side.
I honestly just wish it was more possible to get more rewards for playing and having fun rather than destroying the team or killer.
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Short answer is no.
The players who actually favor no side and played both sides at high level do.
We sadly get a lot of people on here who claim they play both sides but clearly have a one sided agenda.
The agenda I get from this forum is that both sides want to crap on the other side until they can drive off the other side and turn the game into a dress up lobby simulator.
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I reckon it's honestly even further divided than politics these days. Oh well. No way to get through to those people.
Just wish I wasn't absolutely crucified every time I suggest a slight balance to the game. It's beyond ridiculous when I get tomato pelted on the forums with hardly anybody considering my stance to be a real balance.
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The people in feedback and suggestions are pretty nice. I think the toxic people like to stay in general discussions where there is more action.
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People who main one side over the other tend to be a bit entitled, and refuse to see things from the other side.
I don't have to escape to have a good time, and I don't have to get 4K to have a good time. I've even had games where nobody escapes but I still had a good time because the killer was really good -- but also totally fair. When I play both sides, I try to consider the other side. I play the way I'd want to be played against.
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Well sometimes you come across a person so stuck in their ways, they can't possibly accept they might be wrong or the thing they deny as being impossible, can work.
Like you can't escape a face camping bubba. Even when video proof exists, that yes, it is possible to escape from a face camping bubba. Yet show this proof to the person who thinks facecamping is impossible to escape from. They will deny it or simply fade away like a ghost, never admitting they might be wrong and possibly never to be seen again, in that thread at least. That or change the goal post, oh if the facecamper was a more intelligence or better player, they would of never escaped. Even when the original question was, is it impossible to escape from a facecamper?
When honestly, alot more agreement could most likely be reach. If more people played both sides, rather than only one side or the other. That way they could understand or relate to the other side, rather than treating them like the other aka the outgroup. Since playing one side, is a good way to get tunnel vision and only be able to see things from one point of view. Like oh say ds. If you seen some of Saminations latest steams, well some players do make questionable choices as to when to unhook someone. Leading to ds seem to be a perk, not to save you from the killer but rather to save you, from your team mates poor planning.
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With a game like this, you'll naturally have people who favor one side over the other.... be it a little bit or a lot. People who only play killer will more likely be opposed to anything that benefits survivor, and people who only play survivor, opposed to anything that benefits killer.
I think the daily ritual system tries to nudge players into playing both sides at least a little bit, but there are still a lot of people who don't play the other side whatsoever, or enough to speak of despite this.
Of course, you'll always have people who can't see things from other peoples' points of view, but that's just a person problem, not the roles or the game itself. And these days, many people only consider themselves and what they think is acceptable, and will put down anyone who thinks anything other than what they think. So, no. There are a lot of people on either side who cannot consider what other people might want or think is fair, but it is a problem with those people and their mindsets.
Another point I would like to mention is that there are a lot of younger players (teens and young twenties) on here, and younger people on the internet usually aren't mature enough (on average) to accept that other people might think differently then they do, and just because they do think differently doesn't mean that it's wrong.
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Some are! But often I suggest what I believe to be moderately balanced and they don't even consider it, they don't point out anything about it that could work but rather say that I'm wrong often without anything to back it aside from their opinion on why X side is already hard to play or something.
It does make me smile when the community comes together on some things tho :,)
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A bubba standing there nodding isn't really a good example. I agree it is possible but a killer playing correctly can make it impossible via basic things like holding up your chainsaw and maintaining awareness of your surroundings. It's a weird argument because of course it's possible so why does anyone care about it? It's possible to sacrifice all the survivors in 30 seconds, we just gonna accept that as the norm? Bleh, forgot why I'm even ranting.
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Only the people that play both sides have a relatively accurate idea of how balanced or not balanced different aspects of the game are.
For example - (Potentially) Hard to Swallow Pills:
-Despite its rework, DS is still incredibly unbalanced and so is NOED. Both for various reasons, unbalanced can mean many things for example it is often connected to something being "overpowered" but this is not always the case. It means exactly what you would think it means - it is unbalanced.
-Both the Pig and The Plague are some of the most poorly designed killers in the entire game for their own respective reasons, but the biggest one which both share is that some aspect of both their powers operates passively. This is not fun. This is not interactive.
-The Clown. Needs. A. Buff & / or Rework. Now.
-The Legion needs a rework which addresses his core fundamental issue - his power does not help down survivors. Take a minute to think about it: every killer as good, bad, or as poorly designed as they are have a power that actually helps put survivors into the dying state. The Legion's Feral Frenzy does not. This is what makes him incredibly unsatisfying to play as, you must m1 to down a survivor
-Solo queue is by far the most difficult and sometimes frustrating role to play. For those who don't know the power scaling of maximum potential goes Solo < Killers < SWF
-People want, and should be able to play with their friends. Removing SWF is not a viable option to solve the balance issues that have arisen over time, and it never was.
-More killers than not need reworks to their add-ons, even killers who are viable at high ranks or fairly balanced. IE The Hillbilly
-The "Trial Warmup" is a mechanic that should exist in Dead By Daylight, considering the existence of the Endgame Collapse, it only makes sense and streamlines gameplay.
-The devs have indeed done A Pretty Good Job So Far, stop ripping into them all the time.
-Finally: Quentin is in desperate need of a face rework, Steve Harrington needs a voice over starring his actual actor Joe Keery, and Emotes do not belong in Dead By Daylight unless they are practical gestures intended to support Solo survivor communicative capabilities. Stop asking. Dead By Daylight is not Fortnite.
Don't @ me
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Some things I noticed right off the bat:
You don't give any reason for DS and NOED being unbalanced. DS is slightly too versatile I'll admit but NOED is generally regarded as weak due to its situational nature and how hard it is to utilize it correctly.
The Pig and The Plague are pretty uninteractive at times, so this can slide
Facts
I think it's okay for a killer to have a non-lethal power. This is a matter of opinion in general.
Solo and swf have the same maximum potential lmao
Facts
Idk what this means but I'm guessing you're saying Billy's add-ons are fine. They're not.
They are indeed improving the game, good point
I would give a kidney for these changes
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Yes! These are really valid things that people instantly shut down depending on which side they are!
-IMO, Unbalanced means it's close to or just a 100% or 0% use perk. NOED Literally depends on one totem being up and grants an insane amount of power to killers, decisive lasts 60 seconds and the difference of 1 second can mean an escape or not. They're not entirely overpowered, they just have a huge potential that can be stomped out with a bit of time.
-Pig and Plague are definitely an odd genre of killers, their powers are very survivor based for the most part so their games go how survivors let it and somewhat how the killer forces it. But yes, they are poorly designed. Especially plagues mori, ffs. Awful sound design and lipsync.
-Clown is in need of a rework, he's no fun to play against and has hardly any counterplay. But somehow he needs to still be viable. Just not in the way he is.
-Legion DEFINITELY needs reworking. His deep wound also does barely anything, it's not a threat to survivors that they have to be scared of.
-Solo queue certainly needs love. I feel like some things that could help is by making some perks toned down and default. For example, make Empathy a buff to a preexisting mechanic. Maybe within 16 meters, all injured survivors are revealed to you. Then Empathy just buffs this.
-Removing SWF is a ridiculous idea, no clue who would suggest that aside from entitled killer mains but it sounds absurd. Thats part of what makes this game fun.
-Billy himself lowkey needs a rework IMO. Or atleast make it so you can tell how revved his chainsaw is by a physical attribute, maybe he raises his saw further when its close to being fully revved.
-Yeah, I agree, the devs have done great recently, but I still admit they do neglect some things a bit more than they should. Also, their livestreams feel a bit like a waste lately, I hope they can re prioritize
-Quentin: Yes. Steve: Yes. Emotes: Only gameplay related. Spirit: NEEDS VOICE REWORK
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When he was referring to billy, I think he was saying that more killers need addons reworked than killers who don't, and that billy is one of them
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This rank 13 is even bad at face camping. This video proves nothing. If done properly a face camping Bubba can make rescue impossible. Its bs. Most don't do it, because it's truly pathetic, but there are a few.
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Ah thanks. I agree with that sentiment, especially regarding my top three favorite killers: GF, Demo, and Billy
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Dead by Daylight is a causal game, I don't play it to win unless I'm doing a KYF tournament.
Therefore, I chill, have fun, try to consider the other side and play in way that benefits everyone. Sometimes, I can't always do that because of how the game plays, but most games I can usually do well by giving a few chances.
If I believe the killer did good, I'll let them sacrifice me because I believe they should be rewarded for trying. 😊
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Pay attention to my phrasing: "More Killers Than Not"
To clarify: Multiple killers. (Need add-on reworks IE Hillbilly) (which is what you said)
As for DS I'm going to copy and paste something I wrote awhile ago because I don't feel like typing:
It has already been reworked that's true, and then immediately after survivors figured out how to maximize its output and abuse the perk to its fullest extent, hence the need for another rework, again.
One that puts it in its place, but still achieves its original purpose of being an anti-tunneling perk (and NOTHING more) for good.
Allow me to explain:
DS - PROBLEMS
A survivor running DS is not going to heal themselves because the DS practically counts as a health state on its own. It's a nice thought, but it's unrealistic to think anybody is going to heal while they've got what is basically invincibility. They're gonna play as aggressive as humanly possible going for unsafe unhooks, finishing generators in the killers face, doing hex totems in the killers face, etc.
This is the real problem with DS. That it enables survivors to play extremely aggressively for a long duration of time and they absolutely cannot get punished for it. As Otzdarva put it: "Decisive Strike allows survivors to be bold, make bad mistakes and completely get away with it"
DS - SOLUTIONS
It should be deactivated under numerous circumstances:
First and foremost it should be deactivated upon entering a locker, everybody knows this stupid trick, it's annoying to deal with, and provides a survivor 100% protection since they won't even be in the dying state. A key point to remember about Dead By Daylight is that a survivor should never feel safe under any circumstances, they should always be on edge and in some kind of tension, if not something is very clearly wrong with the power role of the killer. The ability to jump in a locker and force a killer to eat the DS absolutely and unbearably spits in the face of this idea, allowing a survivor to feel completely safe within the confines of a red box.
DS is also meant to be an anti-tunneling perk, so it should be deactivated after that purpose is accomplished. NOT for an extra-whatever-is-left-on-the-timer. Similarly to OoO, if a survivor is outside of a range of 32 or 40 meters of a killer, it should automatically deactivate. If you are that far away, you are clearly not being tunneled and there is no reason for you to have the perk still active.
It should also deactivate if you begin repairing a generator, DS is a self-preservation perk, it is meant to keep you alive immediately after the unhook. So if you feel safe enough to repair a generator while still injured, there is no reason for you to have the perk still active. This way baiting a killer into accidentally grabbing a survivor off a generator is no longer viable again, taking away that misplaced sense of security that survivors should never feel.
This also introduces an interesting dynamic, if there is one generator left, it's at 80% and the killer is chasing somebody but close enough that you can hear a heartbeat, do you try to repair the generator? If you do you lose your temporary basically-invincibility but you could repair the generator (popping adrenaline probably) if you don't you might be able to keep your DS maybe even use it and find the hatch or something. This forces survivors into weighing the risks vs. the reward and is a far more interesting gameplay and a tense situation than "Hehe DS will protect me, all gens done time to pop 4 adrenalines now look who's the 4head".
CONCLUDING
These are absolutely necessary changes, those who say no are the ones who are keen on continuing to abuse an unbalanced perk.
However, it's important to note that none of this changes the primary and original goal of the perk who seek to gain that benefit: The core integrity of a perk that keeps you from being tunneled immediately off the hook for a certain period of time is preserved, giving you the opportunity to escape the killer, heal yourself up, and stay alive.
This is what the perk should be used for, and absolutely nothing more.
As for NOED I only said it was unbalanced, not that it was overpowered. It's tendency to swing games into the favor of killers who don't deserve it is the major sticking point, regardless of a lack of consistency. Again, too lazy to type, so I'm copying an pasting some other old stuff I wrote:
HEX: NOED - PROBLEMS
OP's idea does absolutely nothing to solve the issue, survivors have no idea whether or not a killer is running NOED until someone has been hit at the very end, so they have no idea whether or not they should be seeking out the destruction of every totem on the map. If they aren't running noed you are very clearly wasting precious time you could be doing repairing generators, saving teammates, healing teammates, etc. Wasting that much time seeking out every totem which could be really well hidden could very well cost you the match. NOED Triggering once the EGC has initiated rather than after all generators have been completed is kind of a meh idea since this core issue remains, alongside the fact that in many circumstances killers did no work to earn this bonus and simply punishes survivors for playing well.
HEX: NOED - SOLUTIONS
The suggestion of NOED triggering after a late game hook for 45 seconds is not a bad one, the killer did some work and they are rewarded for this. This should be the motto for the perk at all times, it shouldn't be a crutch for bad killers to snag kills at the very end, it should be a perk that rewards good killers who are in real tight and close matches the smidge of extra pressure that they would need to win a match after they've already performed really well.
Perk that provides a really powerful effect on par with NOED have some kind of conditions that need to be fulfilled. Most notably Hex: Devour Hope requires you to get three stacks of unhooks outside a certain range for instant downs and 5 stacks for moris, a survivor equivalent might be Mettle of Man which requires three stacks of protection hits in order for you to tank one that would have put you in the dying state.
Likewise, NOED should require you to fulfill some similar conditions before gaining its benefits. You should have a certain number of hooks or possibly better - put survivors into the dying state a certain number of times before you get the instant downs. This goes all the way up into after the last generator has been repaired, you might not have fulfilled the requirements after the last generator has been completed but you can still fulfill them after such as downing someone normally if they're the last stack you need. Afterwhich NOED will immediately activate and give you access to instant downs - possibly for a limited time renewed after each hook you get like @CheersTC recommended.
CONCLUDING
DS Changes:
What survivors get - The core integrity of a perk that keeps you from being tunneled immediately off the hook for a certain period of time remains, giving you the opportunity to escape the killer, heal yourself up, and stay alive.
What killers get - Prevention of extreme abuse of the invincibility factor DS provides, survivors will no longer be allowed to play extremely aggressive under the protection of DS. If a survivor is truly not being tunneled and outside a range of 32 or 40 meters away from the killer they cannot run back to the killer and pull some aggressive stunts later. Jumping in a locker no longer 100% guarantees a survivor protection as the perk will deactivate, and it will also deactivate as soon as he / she begins repairing a generator so baiting a killer into grabbing them off a generator is no longer viable either.
Hex: NOED Changes:
What survivors get - Less frequent abuse and cheap wins from killers who were not skilled enough to complete the prerequisite stacks or conditions.
What killers get - The small bit of extra pressure that a killer may require in order to turn the tide of a close match, and secure kills at the very end that would otherwise have been lost.
Also "Solo and swf have the same maximum potential lmao"
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As much as I'd love to go into detail on this with you, you have some key assumptions that are blatantly wrong. You say DS allows the survivor to be more bold, and I would argue that that is the intention. It is not purely an anti-tunneling perk, that is just its most obvious use. If the survivor goes into a locker you are allowed to "eat" the 4 second stun and just accept that it was your mistake to chase them. You are right DS is a semi-health state, but you can ignore it by slugging or just doing something else for 60 seconds. No one is forcing you to chase recently unhooked survivors, if you commit to them you as the killer are running the risk of getting hit by DS and if you do get hit, it isn't abuse because the perk is doing exactly what it was designed to do.
As for NOED, it already has a requirement. Play with 3 perks until end game without losing so much pressure that the survivors are able to cleanse all of the dull totems. A bad killer will not activate NOED against good survivors unless they camp.
Funny how you laugh at me but I think it's a joke how you try to dodge my point. It's just facts: Solo can perform just as well as swf. Swf offers no mechanical advantages.
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Why does everyone say that Legion needs a rework? He is one of the killers that I actually get 3-4ks and Mercilesses with in red ranks (and the other one is Nurse.... which means Legion is as strong as Nurse? Maybe so 😏). You just have to play and build him properly! His Feral Frenzy is borderline busted in my opinion, as it either makes everyone spend time healing (just to be injured again), or basically keeps everyone in the "Exposed" state. AND you can kick generators while in frenzy!
I agree that Pig needs some help! Her crouch + dash can be kinda useless or clunky to use, and her traps are just uninteractive and boring. She's basically an M1 killer with a cheesy RNG mechanic that encourages camping and tunnelling survivors who are wearing her Special Hat. I have a list of changes for her that I think would work:
- Make it so that her crouched movement speed is as fast or slightly slower than a survivor's running speed.
- Change the roar when using her dash to activate when she starts the dash, not while she's charging it.
- Make it so that she can't see when traps activate, or see when she's stalling their timer. Also take away the beeping noise from the traps.
- With the above change, make it so that the armed trap timers stall when the Pig is within a certain range, e.g. 8 meters. This would add a mechanic for survivors to be able to tell when she's close, but she would still be able to hit them with her dash if she were skilled enough.
In my opinion, Pig should be more of a stealth-oriented killer, with her ability to sneak around and ambush survivors being her focus, and traps being a secondary stalling feature. As it is, with all of the games I've played against Pigs, they rarely (if ever) use her dash and usually just camp survivors who have traps on their heads. And these are red-ranked Pigs, some with P3!
But anyway.... I don't want goofy emotes or anything.... but it'd be cool if they added a thumbs up or OK sign.... just saying.... and maybe the killer could use it too! 👌👍️
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BRO DEMO NEEDS A WHOLE BUFF TO HIS PORTALS. I really want his red moss default bc his portals are so hard to jumpscare with :(((
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You really think people can be open minded and considerate of others?? THAT is actually the best joke I’ve heard all day
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Hell, the reason I got into this game is to kill self-entitled, spoiled, arrogant millennials. And I face camp the hell out of them just because I know their having a tantrum lmao!!!
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Well it does prove something, that face camping is possible to escape from vs bad players. That and even while playing very poorly or doing barely anything in a match, they still got a kill. Now if the Bubba was a bit more skillful. The odds are, it would of been a four man slaughter with how people kept going for the saves. If anything, this video might favor that face camping might be very powerful for something that takes little skill. That and if we were going vs a more experience player. It could be seen as punishing survivors for doing something that is meant to be part of normal game play. Unhooking fellow survivors. Since face camping is massively different from survivors swarming the hook like Leeroy.
That and if we look at what happens during a normal game. The killer will go around, keeping the gens safe. Kicking them, breaking pallets. Hooking survivors twice. Hunting down and chasing survivors. Mind gaming here and there. A killer could do all of this and still end up with a 4 man escape on their hands. While a face camper, which takes massively less skill, even if they are very bad at the game. Are highly likely to if not always get one kill. Taking all of this into account, one could use it as showing face camping is super powerful for how little skill it takes. Since even someone like Otz, who is a highly skilled killer. Has had games where he only gotten a single kill, while putting in far more effort than a face camping Bubba.
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This is why they should implement massive BP loss if you don't leave a hook, I mean where if you do this you can get negative 20k bp from a match. Its not fair to the survivor at all.
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