Rare opinion: Spirit is actually balanced.

"Its not a 50/50 . https://youtu.be/6Lfi9mH05hE?t=547 assuming you are not giving off audio cues, at max, if there spirit is deaf and ideal conditions it is a 75/25. As you have to make two correct guesses to "mind game". If you are injured, it's almost a 99/1 I'm spirits favor. There is no way to read spirit's phasing, and there is no way to not avoid ever being caught in a chase where spirit doesn't phase."

It kind of is a 50/50 though because if she makes the wrong read OR you provide her with the wrong information (bait) then she wastes her power going the wrong way and won't have enough to come back around.

"You counter tips are also just guessing. If you guess right, which is unlikely as already due to phasing obviously being in favor of spirit, you have to guess again in a few seconds. And you cannot deny information if the killer has headphones or you are injured. Even walking has audio."

It's not guessing. If you see her stand still she is doing 1 of 2 things; standing still or phasing. If you assume she is doing BOTH then the appropriate counter options open up. And if you bait her to follow the wrong path for just 1 second and bolt to the next loop you aren't guessing you are making HER guess. You are just acting. You need to pick something and do it precisely and without hesitation. If you are trying to guess what she is doing instead of trying to bait her and just going for it you will get caught.

"Conditioning or "learning patterns" is a weak argument (time-stamped): https://youtu.be/6Lfi9mH05hE?t=695 are you sure you watched his videos?"

1) Stop quoting this video like it's gospel. It's not.

2) You very much can learn patterns within the first few interactions of a chase. Does she respect the pallet? Did she try to fake phasing right away? Does she mindgame or just follow you? This is indeed enough information to make plays early on. Not to mention, she has about as much information about your behavior which you can use to your advantage. Was he greedy with the pallet or camped for a hit? Did he fake the window vault? Does he look behind himself? Conditioning takes time to do but learning basic patterns does not. And then trying to make predictions base on those patterns can be done. If he respected the pallet first time, but then disrepected if the second time, then he is adapting to what you do. So you mix it up and expect him to disrespect it the next time.

Like you know competitive rock-paper-scissors is a thing right? They usually do like best of 3/5/7, and within those VERY SHORT periods the experienced players can predict what you will do with reasonable accuracy. The more you play against each other the better that accuracy becomes.

"Ha. You definitely did not watch the theory craft video. I'm not even sure why I waste my time here discussing this with you when every point you've made has already been countered and addressed in Scott's 4 videos on spirit https://youtu.be/6Lfi9mH05hE?t=547 . Do you have any counterpoints he did not address?"

Again his word is not gospel. And it's not a guess, it's you being proactive of the information you give her. If she stops, the moment she stops assume she is both standing there AND phasing then bolt AWAY from her. If she was standing still you gain distance to the next loop. If she was phasing there is a good chance she wouldn't have reacted to you running away immediately (unless she deduces this from a previous encounter), so you gain distance. If she waited then started phasing, well phase charge takes 1.5 seconds by default so you gain distance and therefore she has to use more power. Scott's whole assumption that the survivor will stay at the pallet and play it out is the problem here. They don't have to do that, and in fact SHOULD NOT do that. They should just bolt for the nearest tile, preferably to a window. If they make the window, there is an almost guaranteed chance the Spirit will not have enough phase to make it around. The only way that would be possible is if she has speed AND duration add-ons and predicted you would vault long before you did, AND reacted to you leaving quickly enough to not lose too much power.

"It's called guessing. There is no information to go off of. If good survivors are consistently being potatoes against mediocre spirits instead of consistently out playing her, more than a year after release, maybe there is a design flaw. Just a guess."

Stop trying to guess. Start trying to bait and make decisions about what to do quicker. Look at your options, see what is the safest and do that the MOMENT you get the opportunity. If you can throw in a bait, backtrack or fake a vault, even better. You want to keep HER guessing what you are doing, you don't want to try and guess what she is going to do.

This is the entire problem with your/Scott's argument. It's based on the assumption the survivor is trying to play reactively to the Spirit. If you attempt this you get caught. You need to play proactively, as in baiting and making moves the instant the opportunity arises. You shouldn't worry about what she is doing, if you can make it to the pallet or window regardless, then it doesn't matter what she is doing. And sometimes this isn't an option, it is a guessing game where you need to play reactively, but these are the situations you want to avoid. For example, corning yourself is a bad idea. You always want to make a move that would lead to making another move and so on.

"Literally all the same critiques and useless counter arguments pre-rework when devs said spirit was over performing. And the collision, vault animation, and post phase speed changes didn't do much to address these design flaws."

I'ma be honest, the real reason she was over performing was Prayer Beads and to a lesser extent Amulet. Those add-ons were ridiculously strong, alone or together. Gutting them both made a huge difference because now there's nothing to boost poor Spirit play. Bad Spirit's can't get away with cheeky free grabs from PB or just the crazy buffs from Amulet. They have to actually use her power wisely to get hits.

You call them design "flaws" which is not the case. The flaw is in the logic that to beat a Spirit you have to know what she is doing. No you don't, you have to know what YOU can do that would avoid a hit. In most cases that means running from tile to tile, breaking LOS often, and using windows to force her to use more of her power to catch up. And this works against a lot of killers not just Spirit, it's just the most effective on Spirit because you can manipulate the information you give her. But even against say a Billy, if they think you are going to continue looping a pallet, attempt to mindgame (moonwalk maybe?) and during this moment you just run to the next tile you can keep a chase going for a LONG time without even using pallets, just windows. Chaining tiles is a really strong tactic and the best option against Spirit, especially because she is 110 out of phase.

50/50 mindgames? Lmao good one. The "mindgame" aspect is totally in the favour of spirit. And let's not forget how EARS allow you to down every survivor when injured very easy.

I don't think anyone ever said she wasn't balanced, I was sure that most people and myself have exclaimed at how little skill it takes to play Spirit.

There are no 50/50 mindgames with spirit, you either drop the pallet on one side or quietly vault to the other. Otherwise, you already ran away because directly mindgaming a spirit is how you end up on the hook.

Both urban evasion and fixated work well against, but dance with me could be an alternative if you aren't actively putting distance between yourself and Spirit. That's really all there is to it for both sides.

Spirits require no brain power whatsoever to be effective. Basically, the best M1 killer in the game, given that her killer power does not conflict or delay her ability to M1 immediately. Survivors have a really simple approach to counter her, simply by actively evading at any sign of her approach.

Unlike Billy or Nurse who suddenly show up and starts up a chase with their power, Spirit gives off her audio cue ahead of time and attempts to quickly end any chase with her power, more like huntress but without a skill shot (or really any skill).

"1. Windows- most tiles only have 1, so it's not hard to listen for a fast vault and go around with your 200% phase speed. Also most good spirits are able to use their power before you've even gotten there. The exception to this is gens in L-WALL T-WALLS. Those do counter her due to 2 windows, unless you are injured."

Most windows she won't have enough power left to go around the tile and meet you on the other side of the window if she is following you from another tile. It doesn't matter if she knows where you went if she comes out of phase halfway around the window while you are still running to the NEXT NEXT tile nows shes a 110 killer for 15 seconds and won't catch up.

"Do you even play this game? Lol. It is common knowledge that the killer controls the pace and direction of game as the power role. I'm pretty sure the devs have written this out as well. Take cow tree for example. Killer literally just has to turn and run it the other way to make sure you cant fast vault anymore. Found at a L-WALL twall? I'll just phase to another survivor in a deadzone."

By this statement it's obvious you don't play much killer. Survivors lead the chase, the killer doesn't have a lot of control over it. There are exceptions, such as Huntress being able to force a survivor to not use a particular window or take a particular path by raising a hatchet, but she still doesn't control what the survivor does. She influences it and those are two very different things. Killer can sort of determine the direction to run the loop by they don't control what loop the survivor will run to or what the survivor will do at the loop.

"You keep saying the spirit should be baited but you are ignoring that 1. She can hear and pinpoint you. And 2. That requires 2 correct guesses of the exact moment she starts phasing, and which direction she is going."

Hearing you and reacting to hearing you are different things. She might hear you run past her but unless she reacts IMMEDIATELY (best human reaction time is 0.25 seconds BTW) it really doesn't matter. You're goal when baiting isn't to necessarily completely escape the chase, it's to make her waste her power going the wrong direction even for a second.

Also you don't need to guess anything. You are baiting her, in other words providing inaccurate or false information. If you have a clear path to a window or pallet and can make it before she could have phased after you from the point where she stops then it doesn't matter what she does, you make the window/pallet. If she tries to go around she is going to waste her power, and if you keep running to yet another tile you gain distance on her. What she does is irrelevant and therefore you don't need to guess anything.

"So far, you tips on using windows has been proven situational. Your tip on controlling the chase has been refuted. You going to another loop has been shown a bad guess in Scott's video."

Literally any tip in this game is situational. There are so many things that factor into a chase and you can't account for all of them.

And going to a new loop is not a guess. She stops, that's your chance to bolt. There's no guessing. Like I said she is doing one of 3 things, and unless she predicts you will run or reacts the instant you run you are going to gain distance running to the next loop.

Scott also did this on Autohaven which has few windows and a lot of dead zones. Running from tile to tile is less effective on that map period.

"Wow. It'd be a real shame if a content creator had an entire video on if spirit's design flaws were actually fixed."

Which I refuted all the points you've brought up SMH. Stop using his videos as gospel. You say you aren't but you are. You point to them as proof of something when I've pointed out the flaws in his points.

"Any mid range $50 headphones is good at isolating the mids and highs of survivors moaning from the lows of chase music, fire pits, skill checks. If you can hear it you might not have a good sense of hearing or haven't played her enough to get used to it. Like ive said, I've been able to pinpoint a moaning claudette behind a fire pit hidden in the junk of a jungle gym while endgame music and bells were playing. And I've been in situations where I've tried to use firepits to throw off spirits with firepits, the loud center of lerry's. It doesn't work unless they have bad hearing like you. There is no counter to a spirit with good hearing/headphones. Your points are moot, since you don't have good hearing."

Dude I have $300 Astro a50's. They are a wireless version of the a40's which are used by professional gamers. Yet there are still times where it's hard to hear a survivor over chase music or the sound of a running gen. MOST of the time yes I can hear them just fine, but if they vault a window it doesn't matter that I know where they are I can't always make it around the window to catch them.

"What would happen to spirit if she was deafened during phase?"

She would be a lot less fun and more frustrating to play. Why is this even an option? Yea sure, let's purposely make a killer feel like crap to play. That's a viable solution.

Scratch marks are too inconsistent to be the sole tracking method. Every killer tracks by sound, she just does it while invisible. I jump scare people all the time as Ghostface because I can hear them crying in pain. Should we deafening him in NS too? it makes no sense.

Fact is you can run from a good Spirit. It's challenging, but not impossible with some basic skills. You keep pointing to Scott's videos as proof of anything, like Scott can't ever be wrong or something. I've shown you how his argument is flawed. COME UP WITH YOUR OWN POINTS HERE!

Since her update, the amount of complaints about Spirit have dropped SIGNIFICANTLY which as I said was because bad players couldn't abuse PB/Amulet anymore. That was what actually made her over perform. Only rarely does this conversation even still come up mainly because certain people keep pushing it when it's a non-issue. They just have a bias towards Spirit and want to see her nerfed into the ground.

Oh, you like throwing videos a lot? Don't be shy, drop any video featuring gameplay against the Spirit and I'll tell you every second of her phasing if she stands in the line of sight. Don't be shy, drop any video!

They want her to be weak and easy to counter with their totally original perk builds.

you can hear her footsteps when she phase, you can bait a direction, you can bait a pallet throw, fast vault twice the same window, use a flashlight on her face to see if she phase or not, if it do nothing she does, you can run in circles which as a rank 1 spirit main confuse the crap out of me, you can do stuff, learn them, or play her to know her own weaknesses, that's how you get better, stop complaning and play each killer long enough to know how they work so you know how to counter them.

Yeah, those plays are best if they were used on an incompetente spirit. All other killers show when they're using their power except her. The only real counter she has is iron will, otherwise you're dead when it comes to an average sprit player. She's a braindead killer at most.

Not to mention, Spirit cant see people when phasing. Survivor mains seem to forget this fact.

Sure, stridor is useful, but as Caudetteinabush has said, it can also confuse Spirit players.

Making it too obvious would make her power kind of worthless... maybe making her glass shine when she starts to use her power? That would be something that veterans could take advantage of, while still providing a skillful element for them.

It would also completely kill her power.

Remember in the PTB where the whoosh was directional? Yea she was awful.

If you know when she is phasing that completely defeats the purpose of her power. Try it. Play a KYF game and tell your friend every time you phase. Watch how much of a difference it makes.

"More mind game potential" by giving the other player more information? No it doesn't work that way.

If you give her power a tell you REMOVE mind game potential. It doesn't matter if she can stand still in phase, the survivor knows she is phasing and can't see her. All you do is force her to potentially waste her power in order to feign her power, WHICH as proven by loading screen tips is supposed to be a thing by just standing still (in other words by design). Removing that will quantitatively hurt her.