Anything to be Done About SWF Groups? (Very Long Post)
Hey all,
tl;dr: Please read "The Rules" and "Solutions So Far" before posting solutions to the following question: What could be done to help balance out SWF? Feel free to vote for solutions you support.
So I've been thinking about this for a long time and I just legitimately can't think of any solution for good SWF teams that won't break the game... I actually like SWF as a concept: This is the type of game that begs you to play with your friends. I'd be totally fine if it weren't in the game because the friends of mine that like playing the game casually don't play anymore, but the friends of mine who want to play super sweaty aren't any fun to play with... So I play 50/50 killer survivor, though lately I've been really itching to play more killer and MOSTLY not doing so because it's inherently more difficult - even impossible at times - to beat good survivors on comms, and a lot more stressful even against solo queuers most of the time. Paradoxical, but true (at least for me).
And comms, I think, are the main issue. Being on comms eliminates the need for half of the survivor perks and makes many of the remaining perks much stronger - perks like head-on and Object of Obsession are WAY stronger when survivors are perfectly coordinated and can share information.
I'm trying to think of what could be done to keep killers in the game, because I constantly see people saying they're going to leave because they feel powerless in some percentage of their games, and I can't blame them. That percentage doesn't have to be very high before you FEEL like the game is totally unfair. Combine that with the matchmaking that's putting very low-rank killers against high-rank survivors and you have a really bad time for killer mains.
I have a sneaking suspicion that I wish could be confirmed: I wonder if the reason there's such a rank disparity among the killers and survivors is because the number of killers who actually stick with the game long enough to become good is tiny precisely because playing killer is objectively harder at higher tiers of play... and forcing bad killers to go against good survivors could only accelerate that process.
Given that we all love this game (some of us love/hate it), what can be done to help killers have a fun time when they go against SWF groups?
THE RULES:
1) No removing SWF. That would kill the survivor player base.
2) No changes that would alter the base mechanics of the game once in-match for SWF teams (IE, no increased generator times, slower movement speeds, etc for SWF groups).
3) While buffing non-SWF groups to be on par with SWF groups and then buffing killer to compensate is probably the best strategy, I'd prefer to focus on specifics and leave non-SWF groups out of it.
4) There's a big difference between a 2-man SWF and a 4-man SWF. Unfortunately, things like whether they're using comms or not can't be known, so I think to keep killers in the game it has to be assumed.
5) SWF groups are in it to have fun as well. Suggestions made just to frustrate or reduce the fun for SWF groups to discourage them are not useful and against the spirit of the game.
6) "SWF Groups" are not to be conflated with "Good Survivors". What I mean is that SWF groups are not inherently the nightmare 4-man who play like Seal Team 6. We don't want to make the game so much harder for SWFs that you have to be an amazing survivor to play in a SWF group. We just want to balance around the idea that SWF groups inherently have a lot of advantages normal survivors have to blow perk slots on or languish in confusion for much of the match.
SOLUTIONS SO FAR: (I'll update this as people post below if I, subjectively, like the solution. I'll only be paying attention intermittently and I'm not a game designer.)
1) Ban certain perks for SWF groups. Namely, Object of Obsession... no other perk seems unfair in this context to me. If you have other ideas, feel free to share.
-This idea is pretty neat: It nerfs SWF groups in a way that could be tuned later, and it attempts to surgically remove only the parts of the game that can be abused by a SWF but were balanced around a lack of information and are much more powerful when you have more info.
-EDIT: MiniPisa says the only perk they can think of that would need removing for SWF groups is Object of Obsession, and I have to say, I think I agree. While SWF groups can have more coordination and therefore make better use of perks like head-on, the only perk I can think of that really stretches the boundaries of what's fair in a SWF context is Object. I've adjusted the text to match this notion.
2) Indicate which survivors are SWF in the lobby.
2.1) Optionally, impose a mild dodge penalty just to get killers who are on the fence to play ball... But if oyu want to dodge a SWF, there are plenty of killers who won't do that, they'll just play differently knowing that they're going to have a tough match.
2.2) Optionally, give a bonus to post-match BP gain for going against a SWF, with different numbers of SWF survivors giving different amounts of bonus BP. Could be flat, could be based on how poorly you do, or could be % of total points.
2.3) Optionally, give more lobby preparation time for SWF groups, since many killers will want to change up their strategy when they see one.
-These changes are pretty great: I think all the worry that SWF groups won't be able to find a match if killers know they're coming are really just emblematic of the fact that everyone knows how unbalanced they can be... But I, and many other killers, would absolutely not dodge SWFs, especially if they gave a BP bonus. We'd just play differently and not pick certain killers... My main goal in DbD is to get more BP so I can get more addons/perks to play more games. I don't care about killing everyone, this just isn't a competitive game in that way for me - and, I suspect, for many others. One last note: The only time I DO dodge SWFs is when I didn't notice it was a SWF until the last second and I'm not playing a killer/build that I think can handle them... in this case, providing me tha tinfo ahead of time would actually help me STAY in the lobby.
3) Don't change anything [Snowstruck]
-I suppose it's possible that I'm overreacting or just not playing well enough to deal with SWF groups. This user suggests not changing anything and just getting good as it were, which may be valid.
4) Aura Reading Perk Slot (Ikalx): Ikalx suggests that there should be an aura reading perk slot available to survivors that's disabled when in a SWF - this would stop OoO abuse AND provide a buff for solo queue survivors that could help balance the power between SWF and non-SWF. I think it's a pretty interesting idea!
4.1) My own addition here: To make some nice symmetry between killer and survivor, killers could get a 'hex' slot to match the survivors' 'aura reading' slot
-I think it's pretty well-agreed that hex perks are difficult to justify right now given that they're so easy to get rid of, they share a vague similarity with aura-reading perks in that regard... Not many people in solo queue recognize how powerful aura reading perks are - especially kindred and bond - and this could get a lot more coordination in the solo queue survivor games!
5) Randomized Perk Mode (stvnhthr): stvnhthr made a suggestion for a 'randomized perk mode' for SWFs. While I don't think randomizing perks for all SWFs is a viable solution, this could provide a fun challenge for SWF groups, and the same option could be presented to killers. Info could be given to both sides showing who's using a randomized perk build before the game to encourage a friendlier match... I'd definitely use this mode on both sides, though I wouldn't bring a pudding/cake when using it! XD
Comments
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Imagine wanting to punish people for playing a multiplayer game with their friends.
I'm sorry, but if they did that, this game would die. If they wanted to punish swfs, they would've by now.
And if you are so scared of swfs, tunnel. I don't care if it's a d*ck move, and if they talk sh*t end game, oh well. You have to do what you have to do. Doesn't mean you have to hard tunnel, but tunneling is a strat, no matter how much people get mad at killers for it. If it works, it works.
Killers being able to see swfs would result in lobby dodging. That's like saying survivors should be able to see the killer.
Eliminating perks because people want to play with their friends is ridiculous, period.
If you want bonus BPS, you better not mean it counts towards rank because- no. Maybe if you beat the swf, you can gain bonus BPS. Otherwise.. no.
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game going to die anyway with no killers playing.
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Exactly why I feel like this topic is important! I love this game, but since I've started playing killer more than survivor I'm realizing that it's really not fun for killers on a significant number of game specifically because the game wasn't built around SWF groups being in the game.
I don't want them removed, that would kill the game.. but leaving them as they are now has some potential to kill the game as well. It's a tough position to be in, I just really like this game and want it to get to a healthier state.
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Seems like my previous post was lost, but: That's why this topic is important. I love this game and I want it to continue to exist for a long time... but since I've started playing killer I've realized what a difference there is between average survivors on and off comms. I want them to have fun, but I want to have fun too, y'know? Striking that balance is going to be difficult, but right now I feel that against evenly matched opponents, the killer can be made totally helpless against a SWF.
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Hmm... Seems like my response to this didn't post ot the thread...
Suffice to say: I want both sides to have fun. I don't want to 'punish' SWF groups. I want to balance them... I think comms are worth a perk slot, and I think a lot of perks were balanced around not having them, so they effectively give you several EXTRA perk slots. A variant version of those perks seems fair to me.
I already provided my reasoning behind killers dodging.
I don't understand why you're opposed to a bp bonus for going against a SWF team... BP going towards rank? Maybe there's just a miscommunication here: BP = blood points. They don't count towards rank. I wouldn't advocate for any rank-related benefit or drawback for going against a SWF group.
I really resent your accusatory tone here. I'm presenting something I think is a problem and looking for solutions, not leaning in close and begging all my killer main friends to ask BHVR to make the game worse for survivors. If you don't think it's a problem, I'd rather you find a way to express that which explains your reasoning and isn't so hostile and dismissive.
But thanks for the feedback, nonetheless. I'll add 'Don't Change Anything' to the post, since that seems to be your view... but 'Just Tunnel' doesn't really solve anything as far as I can see.
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Well, for the BPS thing= That's also like saying survivors should get extra bps if they get slugged and die very early. It just doesn't make sense. You have to EARN bps..
And they shouldn't restrict perks because they are swfing. And lots of people (including me) swf without comms. There is no legitimate way to tell if they are communicating or not, guess I should of read that better.
Sorry for being hostile, I appreciate someone like you who doesn't lash out because their opinion is different from the opposing side.
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And while being able to tell if it was a swf would be great, if they added that they would have to add survivors seeing killers usernames at least.
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So make the game even more killer-sided? Nah. There's plenty of perks that fight up against swf... Don't punish swf because the majority of killers act like babies because they get 'ganged up on' by survivors. It's a survival game. we're supposed to work together. Jfc. This post gave me a headache.
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I think the best solution to the SWF 'problem' is to warn killers in the lobby that they are going against a SWF, and award a post-game bp bonus for facing a SWF.
You shouldn't be punished for playing with friends because not all SWF's are sweaty and toxic, but I see no issue in awarding the Killer for facing a SWF.
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Removed, other post went through making this one not necessary... unsure why this didn't post initially
Post edited by Jakeroo on0 -
I don't see why that's the case... Could you give me your reasoning? I'm confused on three points:
1) I don't see how knowing the killer's name affects the fairness of SWFs.
2) This could potentially make the problem <i>worse</i> by potentially telling survivors which killer would be used (since some people, like myself, tend to play a lot of a single killer in a night) and letting them bring perk builds that counter said killer, which would totally skew the balance of the game even further into the survivors' hands... IE, if you know someone is playing a lot of doctor, you might bring calm spirit when you normally wouldn't just because you have more info ahead of time.
3) I can't read your mind, hence why I'm asking for a reasoning, but my gut suspicion is that this is something like "If the killer gets a benefit, survivors should get a benefit too," which doesn't hold if the premise of my post is valid. Namely, I believe SWF already provides a benefit to the survivors, so I think a benefit needs to be given to the killers to compensate. Adding a benefit to both sides doesn't help alleviate the problem of one side having an unfair advantage.
With that said, I'm definitely down to add that to the initial post if there's something I'm missing!
And I'll reiterate again, I'm not saying you definitely hold the mentality in point 3, I'm just guessing there. Feel free to correct me!
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Noted and agreed! I said it in the main post but I'll reiterate: I definitely don't want to discourage SWFs or make them feel like they're guaranteed to lose if they group up: I want everyone to have fun, it just seems like SWF groups having comms is a pretty distinct and unfair advantage in the game right now. At the very least, we could let killers know that's what they're facing so they can play appropriately - for just one example, they could adjust their playstyle account for the fact that if one teammate sees them, all SWF teammates potentially know where they are.
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I don't understand why some people are being so belligerent here... I'm glad to listen to any of your opinions and their reasonings - including the opinion that SWFs are fine where they are... but your tone is really counterproductive.
My basic argument is this: Comms give SWFs a severe advantage. They're potentially better than the best information perks in the game and don't take a perk slot. Killers need an advantage when going against these teams, even if it's just letting the killer know that such a team is in their lobby.
In fact, you metnioned that there are perks to counter SWF's - great! Which perks? And in order for the killer to know to use those perks - and NOT to use perks that are totally useless against SWFs like knockout or Hex: the Third Seal, they'd need to know that they're going against a SWF, right? So are you in favor of #2 on the above list, to let killers know they're going against a SWF?
If you'd care to refute that or provide some alternative reasoning, I'm more than happy to listen... But I'd really appreciate it if you could take the scorn down a notch.
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Again, it seems like you're missing the reason WHY I think SWFs need special attention in the first place.
Imagine survivors could opt to play a game in which they get 5 perk slots and killers could not do the same. If a killer went against survivors using this option, don't you think they should get some additional rewards as compensation?
My argument is that comms provide more benefit that most information perks in the game combined, and do not take a perk slot. Therefore, killers should get some extra BP as compensation for going up against a team that potentially has an unfair advantage.
Your note about SWFs that do not use comms is why I've kept the suggestions in the initial post from being tremendous game-changers: I'm well aware that plenty of SWF groups aren't Seal Team 6, as I stated in the initial post. However, since we can't be sure which are on comms and which aren't, I think we should treat it somewhat like the DC penalty: If your router geeks out and you DC from a match, you still get the DC penalty because we can't be sure.
In the same way, I think letting killers know they're going up against a SWF and providing some additional compensation is a fair move, and one that doesn't affect the survivors in their match at all.
I believe before you raised a concern about going against SWFs making killers dodge lobbies: I've been keeping tabs on which people I'm playing against nare in at least a 2-man SWF for the past several games. Again, this is ALREADY something killers can do, it just takes about 30 seconds to do so, so you just potentially don't have any time to swap to a killer/build that can handle it.
What I've noticed is that more than 3/4 lobbies involve at least a 2-man SWF. If you want to dodge every SWF, you're not going to be able to play the game very often.
You'll also note that I put in there a potential penalty - similar to the DC penalty - for dodging several lobbies in a row. I said that because I want everyone to have fun, including SWF teams, but I really think getting some info ahead of time to swap out your build so you can play in a way that won't be totally useless against a team on comms will reduce the frustration the killer players have to go through when they realize that they've wasted a perk/addon/offering slot or picked a killer that just can't handle a team knowing where they are at nearly all times.
I really do want everyone to have fun. I promise I'm not just a salty killer main - I have over 3,000 hours in the game. I love it to death and I play both sides a LOT. I just really think something should be done to make going against SWFs less terrible, while not ruining the game for either party.
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I agree. I've edited the original post to reflect this. Thanks for the feedback!
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Because killers can already see survivor usernames. It doesn't hurt to add it now, honestly shrug
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Honestly, SOMETHING has to be done about the massive advantage comms gives you. Its power can be the same as if I loaded up cheat engine and had survivor auras visible all game along with gens changing color based on how close they are to complete. The amount of information you can share over comms is like having a pseudo version of almost every info perk available to survivors. This includes things like spine chill, kindred, bond, empathy, after-care, alert, better together, dark sense, detective's hunch, buckle-up, wake up, small game, and object of obsession. For some of these things comms are stronger than them, for others comms are weaker, but in the end it's at least a pseudo version of 13 perks for each swf player. It's crazy strong.
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You Cant call out the obvious unfair advantage you will get a warning from a mod. You will also be told that thats how the was always intended to be played. Upsetting survivors is against the rules disagreeing with them is also against the rules and standing up for yourself when the insult you is also against the rules.
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I think it would hurt, though... for the reasons I specified in the post you quoted. Do you have any counter-arguments to those reasons? Again I'm glad to listen to them if you do - I'm often wrong... but until someone can demonstrate to me WHY I'm wrong I'll continue to be in the dark...
I've expounded on the points mentioned in the original topic below to make them more clear:
1) This doesn't seem relevant to the topic of SWFs, which is what this thread is intended to discuss. You may have some reasoning linking the two; if so, please explain. I'd love to understand and update my post with some new rules or edits to current ones... but if it's not relevant, this may not be the best place to bring this particular change up. (If it's not relevant, feel free to make a new thread and link me to it: I'll be happy to discuss it there! I feel rude for bringing this point up, but I really do want to talk about SWFs here...)
2) Since some players play certain killers exclusively or tend to binge certain killers on a given night, if you could see their username you'd have a guess as to which killer they were playing and could swap your perks/items/offerings/playstyle accordingly. Some killers can be totally annihilated with some preparation: Bring flashlights and urban evasion for hag, bring OoO for Ghostface, bring spine chill for myers (that one's not as bad as the others, but it will make him have an incredibly tough time getting out of tier 1), etc.
2.2) This is significantly less of a problem for survivors because seeing which survivor is picked doesn't tell you anything about their perk setup
2.3) This is also significantly less of a problem for survivors because the killer can't easily counter survivor builds: Most killers have a set of perks they need to run to be viable at higher ranks and can't swap out too much from that build, and even if they don't, the killer only has 4 perk slots to try and counter 4 different survivors.
3) Given that, per all my previous claims, SWFs already have an unfair advantage, talking about buffing SWFs in addition to buffing killers would potentially negate the buffs given against SWFs, which would be counterproductive... UNLESS the buffs to both sides were made to facilitate some kind of solution that would be untenable with a buff to only one side.
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Killers will cry about anything survivors do if it means they don't have to be better at the game themselves.
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And you will defend and unfair advantage that requires no skill. What am i talking about nothing survivors do or have requires skill.
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The suggestion I made when joining the forums (and the one that made me join the forums) was to add an aura perk slot for survivors that would be disabled in SWF. That way you could narrow the communication gap between swf and solo and be able to balance killer more effectively.
I think a lot of people don't run auras because they need that slot for something else and swf greatly lowers the need for them, so this might help them be on more even footing.
If we want to expand on the idea of restricting perks, though. You could potentially go the path of making the aura slot be the only slot to accept auras, and have that disabled in swf, but...that may bring its own troubles.
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disabled head on adrenaline borrowed time decisive strike flask lights med kits tool boxes in swf. You can play with your friends and you can abuse comms but thats it.
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I hardly ever play SWF but when I do my friends online are young kids who actually make the game much more difficult because I have to carry them. I know when I play SWF I'm probably going to die and the game is going to be frustrating while I listen to young kids swear, make bad jokes, and listen to terrible music they got blaring in the background; so I only play SWF when I need some laughs and don't care about points or rank.
I have heard many killers complain about SWF. If I survive and do well killers instantly blame it on SWF; which has never happened in an actual SWF game; 99% of the time I play solo. I think there should be a SWF bonus given to killers.
One solution I thought might be interesting is if SWF games assigned perks randomly for one to all slots. This means a team would have to really communicate and learn to work well together because they would not be able to know which perk each player would get.
During matchmaking it would also be nice to scroll over each player and see what their escape/death ratio was it could also notate percentages of solo play vs SWF play. It would give you a bit of a heads up on who you were facing.
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First off, I have over 3k hours in the game and most of that is survivor. So I'm not just a 'killer.'
Second off, the tone of this post is pretty negative. I'm genuinely glad to listen to your opinions if you just throw them out there with some evidence or rationale. I'd like to think I'm not just complaining - I believe I gave pretty strong reasons as to why SWF CAN BE a problem and some solutions that don't 'ruin the fun' for anyone.
Third off, I really don't think you can dismiss a significant portion of the player base by making this general accusation. It seems to come from a place of resentment rather than anything useful.
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I understand the desire to respond to vitriol with vitriol, but this really doesn't help. Most people playing the game aren't just 'killers' or 'survivors', and making a broad accusation against a significant portion of the player base is counterproductive to making this game better for everyone. I think survivor takes plenty of skill - I happen to think killer takes more depending on the killer you're playing, but that's just my opinion and it doesn't deserve to be treated like it has any clout, whether someone agrees or disagrees.
Try to keep it civil, man! Negativity doesn't help, even when it's directed at trolling.
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I like this idea. I'll add it to the main post shortly... it could pair especially well with the suggestion that hex perks should be their own slot for killers, that way you could have some parity between the groups. I don't think they'd implement either idea, but it IS a neat idea, and it would stop what I think is the most egregious perk abuse in SWFs: namely Object of Obsession.
Thanks for the feedback! <3
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While I understand the sentiment, I think this goes too far into the realm of punishing SWF's rather than trying to balance them. I don't think it's reasonable to remove adrenaline, DS, or items in SWF groups and the only logic I can think of behind removing BT seems a little excessive - namely, 'this is a good altruism perk and you can use it better when you're coordinated' - we definitely don't want to remove every perk like that.
We want everyone to have fun: the game depends on SWFs providing content and not feeling like they shouldn't queue together. IMHO, as a solo queue survivor and killer player, I really dislike SWF as a concept... but it's a significant part of what keeps the survivor player base strong.
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Thanks for sharing! I definitely grok that not all SWF groups are seal team 6 - and it's DEFINITELY true that a lot of killers blame SWF when the SWF wasn't the problem at all!
My issue in general is that comms can provide an unfair advantage that isn't accounted for in the mechanics of the game, and certain survivor playstyles and perks can be abused by using comms (namely calling out where the killer is at all times and/or using OoO), and that certain killer perks, powers, and playstyles can actually be fully negated by SWFs (things that block aura reading or trying to play stealthy killers when the SWF can call out your position).
I really don't want to hurt SWFs just because I'm salty and I CERTAINLY don't want to discourage them or make them less fun... An ideal solution will account for the fact that not all SWFs are on comms or trying super hard.
I think a randomized perk build would be a fun challenge mode for sure! However, I think forcing SWFs to use random perks may not be the experience most SWFs want, and may significantly hurt the player base.
That said, thanks for sharing! I'll add a randomized perk option to the list above. If killers do get info about a SWF, they should also definitely know whether a SWF is using randomized perks so they know that the group is just in it for fun!
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So By everybody you mean just survivors well have fun when theres like 10 killers left in the game.
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Im Just tired of them constantly begging for more and more nerfs with skill being one of the main complaints. Of this doesn't require any skill so its to strong nerf it. When killer is already harder. Wheres the skill in decisive strike where is the skill in bt or adrenaline or getting on comms with OoO ? Why should killer powers, perks, addons require all this skill but survivors get the easy path?
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I play Solo more than SWF. When I'm playing SWF I do so much worse than solo because my teammates are either my older brother who doesn't listen because I'm the younger sibling and/or my nephew who doesn't listen because he's a teen. More often than not they get me killed, and fairly early on in the match - especially the nephew, he loves sandbagging. They like to do the opposite or ignore anything I say and won't give updates like when a killer has stopped chasing them. If I'm running Kindred it's to help me because how bad they are at communication. I can't count the number of times they say they'll be going to grab someone off first hook only to see the poor random go to struggle because my SWF started getting chased by the killer and didn't say anything so I have to try and make it to the person from across the map - I pop Kindred on with them and can see if they are actually going for save before struggle hits. I've had conversations with others that have similar experiences when playing with their SWF. For us the killer is getting an advantage because our SWF is hurting us more than helping. It also explains why during the Q&A they said their stats don't show a significant difference between SWF and Solo survivor - there's plenty of SWF that are not coordinated at all bringing down the SWF stats.
I'm good with giving killers extra BP/rewards for facing an SWF because going against a coordinated one is rough. I'm not OK with giving killers advantages and SWF disadvantages, that's just punishing people for wanting to play with friends - and for stats to be close to solo there's obviously plenty of uncoordinated teams that'll be hurt if forced to have disadvantages.
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To Bad then killers get hurt all the because survivors cry for nerfs constantly its your turn to sweat.
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I agree 100% baning OoO when SWF. I usually get paired with reds (even though I'm a green killer) and I don't have obsession perks, so when I get and obsession at the start of the match I can tell right away that I'm going to be facing a coordenate group. From the get go I know I'll get all kinds of fuc* and there's almost nothing I can do, even though I do my homework, don't do lenghty chases and do gen patrol, I usually get 3 gens popping out 'cause one of the team is seeing me and telling the other 3 what to do... That's really broken. Or remove OoO or buff Ghostface and Wraith (stealth killers) so hard that OoO will become obsolete. (I know that buffing killers isn't the solution, but the survivors mains doesn't care about balancing, they just want to win every single game).
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All I see is you crying anytime you comment, if a game made me as upset as this game makes you I'd just find a new game. 🤷♀️
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I feel like you're just trolling... I'm literally making a thread talking about nerfing SWF's because I think comms are a problem...
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I think I've been pretty consistent throughout this thread in saying I don't want to ruin SWF's fun, nor do I think all or even most SWFs are super competitive.
My gripe is that comms provide a potential hideously unfair advantage, and that's where my gripe ends. I don't want to nerf survivors generally, and I don't want to do anything more than what's necessary. I want to take care of the problem, and unfortunately that DOES mean non-competitive SWFs will suffer slightly... It may be callous to say, but I think the minor nerf of not being able to run object of obsession and letting the killer know there's a SWF in their lobby isn't extreme in the slightest, and moreover it's downright necessary if you want to prevent the most unfair matchups in the game - IN MY OPINION.
If you have counter-arguments or suggestions I'm happy to hear them, but the fact that some or even most SWFs are fine doesn't negate the real, crippling disavantage of playing ghost face against a SWF with OoO, or bringing in perks/addons the give blindness against people on comms.
so I guess my questions to you are:
1) Do you think the scenarios above are problems?
2) How severe do you think those problems are?
3) Most importantly: How would you suggest solving those problems? If I could think of a way to ONLY impact comms I would. I'd gladly push a magic button that said "everything about SWFs remains exactly the same except they can't communicate in-game knowledge to each other" - ALL of my problems with SWFs would vanish. If you have ideas I'm TOTALLY DOWN to add them to the list! They just have to solve the above problems to be relevant to this thread.
I'm sorry if this is a little aggressive - I'm SINCERELY not trying to be rude, but I have killers telling me I'm arguing for not doing anything about SWFs and survivors complaining that these frankly mild suggestions would kill the game and I'm just a salty killer main... Which, as I've said repeatedly, isn't true.
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As far as OoO I rarely see as red rank survivor or midrank killer. It's been months since I've seen one, and pretty sure was Laurie going for Adept, so to me it's not a perk worth worrying about. Maybe it's just not popular on PS4? I don't think banning it would be a good solution or would be something Devs go for (honestly I think banning any perk would not be a route the Devs would take). I would say it makes sense to adjust it for killers in stealth - Kindred when Ghostface is in stealth you cannot see him, I would think that should apply to any aura reading perk.
Letting a killer know there is a SWF basically guarantees an ebony mori with tunneling off first hook or dodging matches, probably more the dodging. Killers won't get better from dodging a possible coordinated SWF. Just as survivors won't get better dodging certain killers. If allowing people to start dodging matches because SWF the survivors will insist they know what killer they are going against so they have opportunity to dodge as well. That just leads to bad wait times, or even bad matchmaking when a player that isn't the right rank just gets shoved in to fill the dodging players spot - so don't think Devs would go with that.
As far as Comms - that is the whole point of playing a game with friends, to chat with them while you play. Most are just talking about BS not taking it seriously, if you ban Comms you'd just have them move onto a game where they can chat. That's not something the Devs would go for.
Unless you are asking every single survivor after the match if they were SWF and what type you can't be sure if it was SWF with Comms or just solo survivors that clicked from experience playing the game. I trust the Devs when they say there is no significant difference between SWF and Solo, makes me believe there's not only alot of Solo doing better than people think but also alot of SWF doing worse than people think. Would not be surprised if people assume those good Solo players were SWF. It also points to Comms not being the problem if Solo is able to keep up with SWF. It's why I don't think giving killers advantages and survivors disadvantages with SWF would be a good move. Unless there's actual proof that majority of your bad matches are due to SWF you can't put in nerfs specifically against them.
I think once the new matchmaking is set up and when Cross play comes in it will change the type of survivors you go up against, especially between pc and console. I think alot of people are higher rank than they should be so hopefully new matchmaking will put killers with survivors(solo or swf) they are more evenly matched with making the game less frustrating.
I get you're frustrated but I don't think you're salty killer main or whatever. Unfortunately if you're not "grrr nerf survivor/buff killer" or "grrr nerf killer/buff survivor" you end out getting crap from both sides instead of just one or the other. 😂
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But Basically what you're saying is survivors wont like it and quit so screw killers. Thats not fair why should killers have to suffer for your fun. And more than just a small minority are calling everything out on comms.
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