Punish hook suicides
I don't understand why Behaviour doesn't punish hook suicides the same as disconnects. It makes no sense and legitimizes griefing, because it amounts to nothing more than a penalty-free DC.
Just had a game where two players -- red rank players! -- suicided on-hook inside of the first two minutes. Then, somehow, I'm the one who gets de-pipped for it. It's unbelievable how maliciously negligent Behaviour is with certain aspects of this game, and this is most certainly one of them.
Comments
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No need to punish. Simply double, maybe triple the kill score on that one hook so that the killer can at least safety pip.
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And also don't punish survivors for missing an unhook, since the guy decided to DC!
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I often report them for unsportsmanlike conduct because they refuse playing and let team down as much as being afk. I don't know if it's make any effect.
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Be honest, sometimes you rather die on first hook while it's still 5 gens and every survivors is crouching next to you while the killer is proxi camping. this scenario is far from uncommon.
Solo queue can be a pain sometimes, you won't punish survivors who just want a game they can enjoy.
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I agree about score for killer and maybe even survivors. But somehow it should be count as suicide on hook. What if killer just facecamp his first survivor to force him die on first hook? That's rare and ineffective tactic but it should not be award killer. I want to make it clear: Suicide on first hook is when survivor make escape attempt and refuse to struggle. If survivor struggle all of his second stage - that not should be count as suicide, even if he died on first hook. If survivor missed spacebar by mistake - it still should be count as suicide, because it's really rare moments.
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Killers: Punish the people who DC! I’m sick of getting a safety pip or de-pip
Devs: DC penalties now exist! Killers “Hooray!”
Survivor: *Hook suicides*
Killer: God damn it! How dare survivors legitimately exit a game early......
You’re kidding right?!?!...........
My guess is you play killer in a boring way that makes survivors want to move onto the next game... Ir head huntress, Tunnel, Camp, or something to that extent.
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You can't force players, killer or survivor, to stay in a game they don't want to be in.
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This must be the new thing to complain about. If I'm versing an iri head huntress, you bed I'm going to suicide on my first hook. You can't force people to play and have fun.
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Why do you even play if you don't want to play? It's an opposite of altruism - suicide to f**k up your team.
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I would suggest a rework. Replace them with a bot as soon as they stop struggling. The bot will continue with the game. This gives killers a survivor to hook and preserves the 4v1 aspect for a bit
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As long as you get useless teammates in solo queue, suiciding on hook is totally fine. I don't mind losing but if I see im playing 1vs3vs1 and not 1vs4, I will suicide on hook.
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Ph already does by not allowing you to hook suicide. Just make hooks like his cages where you do nothing at first and then have to complete skillchecks but if you fail you only die alittle quicker so you still cant hook suicide.
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So add a feature to where killers can open the gate after 3 gens get done. It's not fair that survs can suicide on hook because they don't like etc, etc. But what about all the yellow and brown rank killers that get thrown in with red and purple bully squads? There only options are to play the bully simulator until they finally decide to finish the last gens and leave, or DC and get penalized for it...
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Honestly, the whole DC without penalty was there for a reason: you used to have old dying light(25% slowdown to everyone once the obsession is dead) and mori without hook requirements. Literally killers would look up the obsession with billy or iri huntress and mori them. That would slow down the game by removing a survivor within 30 seconds of the match(talk about toxic) AND slow down the remaining of the game by 25%. And the worst part? Killers actually double pipped from those scenarios, while ALL survivors lost 1(safety pips didnt exist back then either). Killers were literally given a kit to be as toxic as they could be and be rewarded for that. So whenever a killer mori'd an obsession within the first minute of the game, everyone else simply dc's to force the killer to depip too. I mean, what is the point of playing a game where you're forced to depip anyway? Then killers came complaining that survivor dc's shouldnt depip the killer and that it was toxic.(yet survivors are the entitled ones for not wanting to depip every single match they play against a billy or iri huntress, right?). Let alone that people who have relatively instable internet would get punished for having that. Nowadays, that doesnt happen as much, and DC's were used to simply opt out against certain killers(I did too, I mean, 10 huntresses in a row with ebony mori and iri head? No thank you, boring as #########, I rather find a game without a huntress)
Considering there are killers who slug, camp and tunnel while having instadown addons/instadown abilities AND a mori. Basically you have 3 options:
- keep on playing, getting saved but instantly hunted down and mori'd, playing for 40 seconds longer at best and giving you a depip
- DC, losing a pip and having to wait 5 minutes for the next match
- suicide on hook, giving you a depip
Ofcourse you would go for option 3.
"Just had a game where two players -- red rank players! -- suicided on-hook inside of the first two minutes."
Basically, the way I see it: you are running a toxic build or are playing extremely toxic, you're the reason for a DC/suicide in the first place. I have never had people suicide unless it was on accident, because I didnt give them a reason to. I've only had people DC a few times when I played my extremely annoying doc build, that would be a very toxic build if I were to cash into it. But I enjoy having killer games where I can sit back and relax too. If I am running a build to sit back and relax, why the ######### would I want to give survivors a reason to suicide? Stop camping, stop tunneling, keep your mori's to slow down a game when you need it to, rather than using it to force a survivor to depip.
As for punishing suicides. no, accidental suicides happen. They happen more often than internet outages and it is a way for survivors to "legally" opt out of a game. Simply dont give them a reason to suicide, then you wont depip.
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Yes you can.
Don't start a game if you won't finish it.
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It's as clueless than saying "Don't wake up if you're going to sleep anyways".
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Stop with the “they suicided or DC because you play an unfun style.”
A pretty common occurrence is someone with OoO clicky clicks me into a chase and they aren’t nearly as good at looping as they think so they go down in like ten seconds. They die on first hook most likely so they can try again to get a “bad killer,” that they can loop for highlights.
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What a crap analogy.
You screw over everyone else in the game by killing yourself on hook. It should be punishable.
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If you didn’t wanna be in the game why did you queue up? Oh you mean you only want to be in the game against bad killers like Clown, without Ruin, and he can’t spot you first, or down you... because those all spoil the game.
Alos how do killers get out a game in the first minute without DC?
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Killer can't either die or be screwed over by their teammates.
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I see no reason to punish it since the mechanics exist in the game. Survivors can attempt to escape which brings them closer to the next state and the 2nd state if you fail to spam whatever button it's assigned to you get killed.
Personally I've only ever let myself die on hook to move on to the next game when my teammates are just beyond bad. I watched a survivor get hit by the killer run down the basement and unhook me while not having BT and then after he went down I ran by a healthy survivor in the basement stairs who didn't body block so I just went down again. I let myself die after getting rehooked, because there's is no redeeming those teammates.
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No, I can clearly see that you WANT to TRY and force people to play when they don't want to. But you really can't.
Sometimes you get in with a team you don't wanna play with.
Sometimes you get matched against a killer you don't happen to feel like playing against.
Sometimes you go in as killer and you just know its a SWF group, and you don't wanna deal with it.
Sometimes my wife or kids comes in and asks me something and I just would rather go do that.
You can go on all day about how hardcore you are and you'd never abandon a game, but not everyone needs to have that kind of dedication to a game.
You can't dictate what I do with my free time. Simple as that.
EDIT: In addition, dying on the hook is finishing the game.
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Yep. If I've got a camping iri head huntress, or a game where someones already DC'ed and there are 5 gens left with an Iri Head Huntress, I'm out as soon as I can. It's simply not fun to play against. And arguably its in my team's best interest because it's more likely to make the hatch spawn faster. And the killer brought an Iri head, so they weren't desiring a long game.
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I love replies like this one.
- First off, suicide on the hook isn't against the rules so the devs aren't going to be punishing anyone for it.
- If the best response you can come up with is to call someone a name you've already lost the argument.
- The irony of calling someone else selfish when you are literally advocating that everyone must play the game in a way you find personally acceptable or they should be punished.
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I don't think it's a good idea since no one knows was that hook suicide or did the survivor fail to struggle (newbie, keyboard/ controler fail or distracted) . Or what about the hook suicides to give the hatch the last survivor.
Also the DC paneltise are not as good as they sounded at first. Of course players who abuse the Funktion should be punished but as it shows there is no way to leave game if it isn't fun anymore, as an example: all four survivors lay on the ground being sluged by the killer. You decide to die on the ground so you DC. Or you are glitched into something and you can't leave. What do you do DC. There is a bee in the room I'm playing. What do i do DC and leave the room immediately.
There is a reason why people kill them self on hooks. Sometimes they are good and sometimes they are bad.
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Why would you DC when slugged?
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First introduce ping and fps kick
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Do you think the games fun when you wait to bleed out on the ground with your team mates, while the killer just stares at you. Still worst game i remember so far. I didn't dc but wished i did.
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But why?
Screw yourself out of the points and get a longer DC penalty than the bleed out timer.
I know people love to think that they're really upsetting killers with this stuff, but generally they're just laughing about it. (I had two DC's in a game last night - one of them while I was taking them to the hatch because I felt merciful after the first DC! What a goofball. Post game chat they told me that I deserve every DC I ever get because I had the nerve to play Legion. I was laughing the entire time.)
Also, people really need to lose this "fun" argument. You queued for a game. You can lose that game. People don't get to act like a baby just because "losing isn't fun!"
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This whole debate is about how it SHOULD be punishable. There was a time a killer could bodyblock a survivor for hours without being banned,
There was no name calling. Don't be a ######### doesn't mean the person is a #########. I cut my grass today but I'm not a gardener.
It's not selfish to expect people to comply with social norms of not being selfish. You don't see people in basketball games deciding they don't want to play anymore and screwing everyone else over.
I actually do DC/Hook suicide. I won't play an Iri Head Huntress, I won't play the Game or Lerys if the killer puts the Offering on. I acknowledge I'm being a ######### about it and maybe my teammates would have liked to play. I accept the devs should punish this behaviour.
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I mean, there is really no argument for me. I almost never DC unless some real world influence is preventing me from staying in game, which usually boils down to work, wife, or kids.
But I have no obligation to stay. Or play the game the way someone else would prefer I play.
I got chewed out by another survivor earlier because I didn't hook rush into the basement while Bubba was insidious camping, called me all kinds of names. I just saw him sitting there and did gens and got out.
But like I said, its not an argument, its a statement of fact. If I'm not having fun, I'm out. That doesn't mean losing, it means not having fun. Sometimes thats my teammates, sometimes its a killer I can't stand, sometimes its just gotten boring.
It doesn't matter why. If I want to leave, I'll leave.
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Of course you don't go into the basement there, and there's nothing wrong with that.
But the attitude of, "Well, I don't like this, I'll DC!" is just being rude and inconsiderate of everyone else, especially your team.
Yes, it's your time, your life, you can do as you please. But it still makes you rude and inconsiderate in that moment.
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That was before paneltise. It's seriously about the bleeding out instead of hooked part. I don't mind being killed. What i do mind is being slugged with my whole team near me, that is slugged to. Do you know how boring it is to watch yourself bleed out.
Bring me to a hook fine! Don't mind the hook. The thing is do you want to play against someone that plays just to make you mad. Like a team of toxic pro survivors that shove you their flash light the whole time in your face. Or a killer just toying with you, planing to make your game frustrating.
I don't care about points. Play so irregulari that i don't rank up. Also i meant it like they want to but can't bc of paneltise.
Of course like i said in the first comment people who abuse the funktion need to be punished. It's a game and a game is about fun. Losing can be fun too if you play against a killer in you skill level and you had a good chase.
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The problem is that that doesn't do anything for the remaining Survivors who are now screwed because someone decided to ragequit.
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So you want people to be punished for killing them self on a hook?.I myself as a killer and survivor main I don’t think punishing people just for Doing that is needed.Sure teammates will complain that you did that but survivors don’t have control over the hooks.Yes some are lucky and break free from them and others aren’t as lucky.I honestly think the devs will dismiss such reports.
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Here's one, what if I actually want to try and escape the hook myself. Base 4% chance everyone.
You can't punish people for actually using a built in chance to escape the hook.
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and then failing to tap space repeatedly?
I've seen it suggested before that survivors should be able to 'ping' a hooked survivor to say they are coming to get them. This removes the Escape chance unless they have Deliverance.
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That would be easily abused though.
The way its currently built, its fine to not wanna stay on the hook. I suppose if you didn't wanna risk randoms killing themselves on the hook you could go in as a 4man SWF. Then you'd know your team. probably a much better chance they will play the way you want them to play in that situation.
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irihead huntress with ebony mori and slug perks tends to be defined as a toxic build, forever freddy is quite a toxic build. However, toxicity is defined as toxic behaviour. A toxic build is essentially a build that easily allows toxic behaviour. But just because a build enables toxicity incredibly easy doesnt mean the killer is toxic.
Essentially, facing forever freddy is boring and the people running it are extremely likely to play very toxic when they dont have to do anything themselves. So suiciding when you notice a forever freddy build is completely fine.
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this is so strange that there's this many threads about this...
I really never see hooksides but like... how can you tell? What if they just messed up ?
Idk
As killer just get your kills and move on
As Survior either play with your friends or shut up randoms are randoms in any game and being apart of a ranked online only game... i can't possibly see why you can't be bothered to make a team of gamers in real life.
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Any build where you kill survivors.
Honestly, there are a ton of things survivors can do that are also frustrating, but you don't see me over here advocating disconnecting because, "But I ain't havin no fun!! Dead Hard is toxic!!!"
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Personally, I don't mind. And I will do it when nobody starts moving to save and I go into struggle, I just don't want to play with others who don't try to unhook.
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Just make struggle automatic. Most people don't like the button-mashing anyway and it would stop hook suicides.
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If I'm on first hook and my team isn't doing anything - no gen, not making their way towards me, nothing - I'm going to attempt escape. If they still make no move I'm going to let go, I'm not wearing away my buttons to not be saved.
If they are working gens I give them until I hit struggle to make a move. If a gen isn't completed and they still are not making a move I'm not wasting time struggling. If they finish a gen and move onto next instead of coming to get me I'm 100% not wasting anymore time in that match.
If I'm being camped I'll stay since it's not my teams fault I can't be saved. However I understand why someone would kill self on hook since they're getting no points and losing a pip anyway.
If I'm farmed off my first hook by someone not using BT and they go to do it again I'm letting go.
Sometimes I hit struggle on first hook but my button mashing doesn't work and I die before timer runs out.
Aside from the camping killer the team not doing anything to help the hooked teammate is the problem, not the teammate killing self on hook. This is why you can't add a penalty to hook suicides. Sure someone may do it because map/killer but more often it's the team isn't doing anything to help. Maybe if they made changes to someone on hook getting points like % gen repair it'd make more stick around to be saved. If being camped give them distraction points too to black pip.
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until they fix the game its good there is an alternative way of dcing. im not going to play vs a good spirit, a mirror myers, an iri head huntress and so on. also i find ridicoulus the killer doesnt have a surrender option. when i play killer and the match is basically bullying simulator im not going to play. i will either go afk in a corner or if i have an instadown killer i will facecamp a survivor
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How would it be abused? The 1 in 50 games where survivors ping but leave you to die when you might have been able to escape otherwise.
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"You can't force players, killer or survivor, to stay in a game they don't want to be in!"
"I suicide against iri head Huntress!" You can't force people to play and have fun!"
"As long as you get useless teammates in solo queue, suiciding on hook is totally fine!"
"They're using a toxic build!"
To everyone countering with these kinds of arguments: You're exactly the problem. You know, going into a match, that game mechanics exist which you don't like. You accept this by deciding to play the game. If you don't accept it, why are you continuing to play.
Don't suicide on the hook. If you have decided to play Dead by Daylight, then PLAY DEAD BY DAYLIGHT.
I wish I could change that to like 72 point font.
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@Rydog Exactly! Don't play if you don't want to! I consider suicide as BM. You can do that, but it makes you look pathetic in killer's and teammates' eyes. If you suicide on first hook it means you the one who make you dead. And it means you are the only reason that you lose. Giving up before fight. And it's not killer's fault if you don't want to play! You don't like the way killer plays, you don't like the way teammates play, you don't like the map, you don't like killer's ability, it's your problem!
Yes, everyone had ######### game sometimes but it is not the reason for suicide! When you don't give up, and escape from hopeless situations - it's much more satisfying than if you just escape from mediocre killer. Those who suicide on first hook will never get this feeling.
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DbD isn't basketball. This isn't the only time I've seen the comparison, and it just isn't.
And I don't exactly think everybody should be going around DCing, but you were wrong when you said "Yes you can," in reply to "You can't force players, killer or survivor, to stay in a game they don't want to be in." Sure, punish their account, but if somebody wants to disconnect, they will.
And no it's not "being a #########" just because somebody doesn't want to play a round of DbD. Again, the basketball comparison makes no sense and this example is where that comes into play: where basketball is a team versus team game, Dead by Daylight isn't. You have a 1v4, where one side has only the single player/killer, and the other side isn't even a team. Yea, they aren't there to kill each other, but the survivors' objective is to escape. Even if they can't save the others. Again, I'm not saying that everybody should just be going around being selfish and disconnecting, but you can't act like DbD is a hardcore team game like basketball because it's not. If somebody wants to let themselves die on hook because they have 3 team mates that aren't helpful at all and are just crouching in a corner or something, they're not "being a #########" just because they want to move onto the next round. Yeah, the group of survivors might have less of a chance of winning, but 1. that's clearly not something they're interested in if they're just crouching in the corner and 2. even if everybody is killing themselves off 1st hook, the last person can still get the hatch, so in a weird way it at least helps one person survive.
I get why you're saying what you're saying, but no you can't keep people in a game they don't want to be in. And DbD isn't the same thing as a team sport such as basketball. You're entitled to your opinion though I guess.
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Just to add onto my last comment/piggyback off this one: While I don't think that just any form of ending the game more quickly is "being a #########," I can definitely say that something like that does apply to the whole "I don't like going against this so I'll quit" mentality. That truly is being a selfish #########.
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