A fair way to use moris? [Discussion!]

All three mori offerings would be way more reasonable if they only worked on dead-on-hook survivors.

It Will never die because survivors are selfish and entitled. They will defend anything thats strong and or unfair they have to the death but demand nerfs for anything strong killer has.

Still To weak and would be useless so no.

I love when I try to justify my points and ideas with clear explanations in the interest of analysis and discussion, and it is met with the forum comment equivalent of a wet fart.

OK, I'll bite.

Why would it be too weak and/or useless? Please take into consideration the use cases that I laid out in my previous post. I also assume we are not arguing from the same perspective, as I believe there is a pretty pernicious gameplay problem with moris, which I also laid out in my previous post. I assume you disagree. I would like to hear your opinion on this too.

Let me redirect this: What do you think the intended use case of the mori is, from a design perspective? There are only two possibilities that occur to me.

• A cool death animation, in the spirit of DBD's slasher-inspired theme.
• A method for unilaterally chopping off up to a third of the game.

One of these is a piece of thematic set dressing, with some mildly gameplay-adjacent use cases as I outlined. This would put it, one would think, more or less on-par with other offerings that could occupy that slot.

One of these is a mechanic that, as I said, moves the goalposts dramatically. It leads to degenerate play, carries an outsized sense of unfairness (far and beyond almost all other mechanics that exist in this game with the possible exception of purple/red keys), and... well, leads to discussions like this one.

From a design perspective, I would never dream of introducing a mechanic that does the latter, because it comes across as sanctioned griefing. So I can only assume the actual intent is the former, with the latter being an unfortunate and unforeseen consequence, especially for the red mori. It seems like, for people who want the latter, it effectively boils down to a "nope we want this OP as heck option specifically because it is so grossly OP." This is not a healthy attitude to have.

I'm not talking about those other things, I'm talking about moris.

And you're arguing in extraordinarily bad faith, so we're done here. I feel like I'm arguing with a 15-year-old or something.

Because Im not blindly agreeing with you that seems to be a survivor tactic. Propose an undeserved oneside nerf, come up with a weak argument to try to justify the nerf, completely disregard any argument against your points, then insult the other side accuse them of not trying to have a conversation because they dont agree and ignore them.

The point of the ebony mori was it's a power trip addon(It used to be able to mori people EVEN WITHOUT HOOKING THEM) while also being very rare so it wasn't seen very often.

Also as other pointed out keys old BNP's also cut off parts of the game if not the WHOLE GAME; As Old BNP could get the exit gates opening in ~57-53 seconds was a record I saw.

Also outside of moris/monstrous shrine killers can't speed up their main objective(part of it is Sacrifice progress while on the hook) with items/add-ons unlike survivros with toolboxes/BNP/Leadership/Resilience/Spinechill(Its boost has saved me more times then you'd think).

So saying they killer can't move their goal post while the survivor have multiple means of doing it is simply being biased against killers.

For what it is worth, I agree with other major recent nerfs, too. I think the game is far better off without survivors' insta-heal add-ons, for example. And I have some strong opinions about keys, too (they're just as degenerative and goalpost-screwing as moris). I didn't know moris used to work without hooking people, that's awful. Where we're at with them currently is still not a happy medium, though.

Re: game speed, the idea that a killer would have to rely on a red add-on to have any hope here is crazy. If there is a problem with game speed, it's a way bigger problem than the red mori. And, it seems like Behaviour agrees, because they're going to introduce some sort of beginning-of-trial phase which I assume would cut down on early generator completion time and give weaker killers (like Trapper) a chance to properly set up.

The only way that I use a "mori" is with 5 Stacks of Devour Salt or Rancor. I've used an Ivory for a daily too, but I don't take them into my normal games. If I can't kill a survivor by hooking them, then I don't deserve the kill. When not playing with Devour..... chill.....

As for the whole "power trip" thing with the Ebony is that it's just too far an imbalance on both sides to include with any ranking system, since survivors are forced to either rush through their objective, infuriating a killer further, and basically being a sweat-fest for the survivors to reach a safety pip, or just hide out and hope for hatch watching everyone else get picked off like it's a match of F13.

Oh, what are they meant for then? Do tell. While playing as killer (at rank 17), I have just ended red rank survivors who are clearly better than me at the game just because I had a mori. Maybe moris are to help compensate for matchmaking with high rank survivors vs. low rank killers? I don't know.

I would use them as a reward for the killer after a good match. If you have killed 2 survivors you enable your ability to kill a survivor that has been hooked 2 times.

Also i would change the offering so it only let you kill a survivor if there is no hook near enough of you.

This is going to go nowhere. He can't/won't articulate his positions, and even after exhaustively laying out my case and asking him to respond, I don't understand what his view is, beyond what I have put together as "I want this broken win condition because killer is treated unfairly."

(EDIT: For clarity, I am not trying to put words in someone else's mouth. This is my interpretation of the conversation so far, but feel free to correct me if I'm jumping to wrong conclusions.)

Can you engage in this conversation without resorting to this kind of empty political mindset?

I don't know how you can read my posts and come to this conclusion. I go out of my way to articulate and make a case for my opinions. Sometimes, someone will engage and bring up a point that changes my perspective on something. I don't just go !!!! THING BAD, PLZ NERF NOW, and I don't have a bias toward or against any one role or style of play.

I have to assume that you believe, or at least will extend me the fundamental good-faith assumption, that I am being honest and genuine when I lay out my discussion points. I don't know how to convey that to you, other than saying to look at my post history, including this thread. I don't have some sort of an agenda. Your responses feel to me like you are projecting onto me the things that you yourself are doing.

When I first played DBD I got the vibe that the devs had a plan for this entire world within the entity realm and within it a sense unpredictablility, rapidly changing fairness, advantages, diadvantages and oddities.

The blood web is perfectly designed to allow more and more things slowly slid into people hands while at the same time cycling, competing and making you grind to get more of a specific item. Just...the mood...the little flavours to everything. The sense of things have a vague magical power at times on both sides. I think that moris and keys...everything really were planned around the offering system, addons and even items being waaaay bigger galleries than they are right now but because the offering systems is so underdeveloped an in fact...actually had stuff CUT from its potential pool of cyclable items-for good reasons I'm sure-

Moris have become far more common simply because there really only misty juice, anti-misty juice, a tree, a hand, a butt load of BP boost options, a coin, a shroud, map choices, then moris.

As killer you're rarely ever going to sacrefice points for a map. Who cares. Unless you really want to try a specific build on a map for some reason. Same for reducing chests...like...why on earth would you reduce one of the few things to distract from gen rushing. Or closer hooks. I won't go down the complete list.

my point I'm trying to get at is that there isn't a fair way to use moris really. They were never designed to be fair, if they were, they would of been third hook to begin with, but even that would be dumb because devs know no killer going to sacrefice massive point boosts for a third hook animation in an offering spot. Moris themselves are meant to be unfair-except cypress- but they were also meant to be...S C A R Y and unpredictable and rare.

same with keys.

But neither items or offerings have been updated or given new items so we got loads of both running around just stacking up. And even if yoiu have loads of the other offerings...you'd never use them as killer...who the hell uses shroud of seperation when almost every killer benefits from survivors bunching up. Play how you want.

I use moris for either challenges, or I want a casual experience for once without intense sweat, or simply because I want to be an actual slasher killer in some sense on my side rather hookmanmchookface second in the short line of hook. Does it suck for survivors who get on the recieving end of a nasty mori...yeah...but it also sucks for killers who get on the side of swf comms. DBD has issues in many ways.

I do believe the devs want to fix this and I hope that they will explore perks and even mechanics-like PH upcoming mini-mori- to maybe replace this system or perhaps they will give the offering systems a large update to help buffer between mori appearences more.