Pop goes the weasel and DS

This is how buffs and nerfs work. Incremental numbers and percentages can change the state of something dramatically. Not everything needs a full redesign.

@Sluzzy (it won't let me qoute you)

I agree.

Gens need to be redesigned so they don't soley determine when the match ends. Then pop and other perks need to be looked at. Survivor shouldn't be in control of when a match ends no matter how good they are. They control when the gens are done, when the gates open and when EGC happens which is absurd amount of power for the prey role. Especially the EGC.

It's disheartening and devalues your time to be punished for doing your job-one of the reason people hated old DS since it was a screw you for picking someone up basically- the fact killers have to rely utterly on perks to gain back any control of how quickly the match ends is silly although before we see changes like that we'd need to see more updates for survivors in terms of items, interactables and hiding spots otherwise survivors will die by attrition without control of time.

A lot of these gens perks are band aids for survivors dictating when the match ends. Which they should just fix with a massive update. But I guess we won't see anything like that being worked on until this big graphics update is released.

Don’t really think any perks need nerfs atm. I can think of a couple dozen that could use buffs though.

@Real_Cheesus Not every perk needs to be meta. But I do agree that the majority of the perks need reworked.

@Rydog You as I said above, not every perk needs to be meta. But every perk should feel useful. As it stands the majority of perks don't.

@Sluzzy Pop works perfectly. It's arguably one of the best designed perks in the game. You're right high mobility killers benefit from it more. But that's true with most perks. Unfortunately high mobility usually means viability in a game where time is so important.

I mean pop isn't that strong... if you down someone and hook them in the right spot you can kill 15 seconds of gen i guess...

But It doesn't have any synergize, it won't work with ruin or surge or tremors and you need to spend time going after a gen while other survivors are doing progress anyway and getting the save

And if you hook someone else too quickly it won't work with the long cooldown and if your stuck in a chase you won't get to use it anyway..

Its only good because most killer perks are utter garbage

One of the main reasons I'm never moved by these discussions about DS is that there are always from the perspective of the killer. What about the Survivor? What about the times when you get unhooked and the killer tunnels you? And the tunneling goes beyond 60 Seconds? What if you get slugged and no one comes to help you? Or the other person is also on a hook? What about when you get tunneled off the hook the second time around? I always hear crying and whining from killers but none of the discussion takes into account the problems that survivors face. I know from experience when there is no Obsession in a match, the killer has the freedom and discretion to tunnel and instantly rehook people without hesitation. I can't speak for others but I hate running DS, and Unbreakable. At least on red ranked PS4, all you do is run into 100% tunneling and 75% Sluggers. So any balanced conditions and deactivation suggestions should also consider a lot of other issues from the Survivor perspective.

I think the timer should be shortened a lot, but it pauses during a chase. However, they would need to make the chase mechanics less janky.

@Volfawott

In a thread not too long ago, the developers confirmed it isn't an anti-tunnel perk. The community labelled it as such, but that wasn't the original design premise of it.

@MrPenguin

That was me remembering a quote incorrectly, apologies.

DS just needs to be deactivated if you unhook another player or start repairing a gen. It's fine as is, it doesn't punish "playing badly as a surv" as much as it helps when your teammates farm you and unhook right in front of the killer, or you get tunneled. As it is now, it's almost like a 2nd borrowed time, there's no reason to not run it!

I feel like the biggest factor of Pop becoming meta was the nerf of Ruin. Many people stopped using it and wanted an alternative. The timer increase to Pop certainly was a nice change but I feel like it did little in terms of pushing people to use it.

Not at end gsme..but elsewhere is tolerable

While Pop rewards the killer for playing well, DS rewards survivors for playing poorly, or the killer playing too well.

@LordGlint I understand but this is all from The Killer's perspective. The issue with deactivation conditions is that they don't necessarily signify you're not being tunneled. I listed a few examples where you ARE being tunneled and how ineffectual DS is during those moments. Until I see a meaningful discussion about this from the Survivor's perspective, these conversations are a waste of time. How can we make the only Survivor perk that barely helps with being tunneled become even less effective and more favorable for The Killer? Is the question all of these topics aim to satisfy.

It's not getting removed, lol.

If a killer is intent on removing you from a game, there are no perks that will prevent it. Lengthen it, yes. But if a killer wants you, even if that killer loses the rest of the match, that killer will get you. If both skill levels are similar.

The problem many killers have with DS is that they get hit by it many times just for being too efficient. A 5 seconds stun can be huge in a time based game like this.

Most people arent forgetting that DS is still the best anti tunnel perk regardless of what the devs view it as. Most killers would be fine with DS that only worked for anti-tunnel situations.

Define "toxic" please